Cloves banned. Knew it was coming, just wanna complain. :)

[chadizzy1]

Next Cigarettes will follow what is used in Europe and what you see on Pall Mall packs now.

Orange=Ultra Lights
Blue=Lights
Green=Menthols
Red= Full flavored.

Because you cant use terms such as low nicotine, lights, etc. (I think thats how Pall mall are labeled, Europe has their own fancy way).

Oh we're way beyond that now. Yes, Marlboro Lights are no more, over here they're Malrboro Gold. And we now have the pleasure of extremely graphic photographs of diseased body parts and dead bodies on each cigarette packet.

But not content with that, the anti-lobby here is now pushing to have stores keep cigarettes under the counter and not visible to the public. And that they all be sold in white boxes with just the name of the brand and variety in the same black font (plus the warnings and graphic photographs I presume). No branding whatsoever.

With each concession, the antis immediately push for another thing.
First it was warnings, then no TV advertising, then no print/billboard advertising, then no sports sponsorship, then no advertising in store at the tobacco counter, then no promotions/giveaways, then bigger warnings, then graphic photographs, now no branding and no visibility. I'd hate to work in marketing for a cigarette company, it must suck.

<marketing guy>
*puts picture of someone with ebola next to someone with cancer*
tagline: "cancer - could be worse!"

not making fun of it, i know alot of people who have cancer and it sucks, took my father from me.

but that seems like what its going to come down to. HOW do you advertise/market now?

[Veganpunk]

The no promotions pissed me off. I saved up Camel Cash for years to get the pool table. Then all of a sudden, no more Camel Cash. :evil:

[daruckis]

i started out with the poppy shit like screeching weasel and rancid, op ivy and all that.

Wow, I wonder what the Operation Ivy guys would think about being called "poppy"? I gotta say those strait edgers were total jerks in my experience and the ones I knew were total hypocrites but as this discussion shows punk is a wide ranging genre of music with a wide range of fans.

Props to Tom for keeping the torch burning in Kentucky.

Also, IMO Blink-182 was ok at the very beginning but I think they kinda mark the end of the second coming of punk. I know punk will continue to be reborn for the rest of music history.

dude no disrespect to op ivy, one of my all time favorite punk bands ever. maybe my number 1, actually. but i guess i just think of them as having kind of a poppy sound. i mean theyre no screeching weasel pop, but still, tim armstrong dude. jesse michaels though is the best vocalist/lyricist in punk music. and i love blink 182, i never did when they were still really popular, as i was way too punk to care about that mainstream shit, but a couple years ago, i heard dude ranch and was like wow, i absolutely adore this. so i got cheshire cat, and since then ive been able to come to grips with the fact that i very much love blink 182, even that newest self titled album everyone hated cause they mellowed out on, LOVE IT.


also forgot to comment on this, veganpunk, MUDHONEY!!!!


MUDHONEY!!!!

[RRK]

dude no disrespect to op ivy, one of my all time favorite punk bands ever. maybe my number 1, actually. but i guess i just think of them as having kind of a poppy sound. i mean theyre no screeching weasel pop, but still, tim armstrong dude. jesse michaels though is the best vocalist/lyricist in punk music. and i love blink 182, i never did when they were still really popular, as i was way too punk to care about that mainstream shit, but a couple years ago, i heard dude ranch and was like wow, i absolutely adore this. so i got cheshire cat, and since then ive been able to come to grips with the fact that i very much love blink 182, even that newest self titled album everyone hated cause they mellowed out on, LOVE IT.


also forgot to comment on this, veganpunk, MUDHONEY!!!!


MUDHONEY!!!!

OK, I just think that the difference is that you think of pop as a sound were I think its more about being popular or mainstream. Operation Ivy basically invented "ska-core" and they only existed from '87-'89 which was certainly not a time when punk was pop. On the other hand Blink-182 pretty much lived on MTV and teen magazines and such. I own Dude Ranch and I liked it for a while but I don't think they really added anything to punk rock and kind of epitomize the whole sell out concept. Also what I meant when I was referring to what the guys in Operation would think of that label was that they had the opposite in mind when they made that music and I'm not so sure you could say the same thing about Blink-182. Same kinda deal with Screaching Weasel, Boogadaboogadaboogada! came out in 1988 and is very influential.

[daruckis]

i get what youre saying, i just had them grouped that way as my like punk rock training wheels, so to speak.

[Jason]

I gotta say those strait edgers were total jerks in my experience and the ones I knew were total hypocrites

I respect the pledges made by someone who is straight edge, and I have known a few very cool people who were in that scene, but for the most part they are generally assholes. I went to a Strife show years ago (good band) with an SE friend of mine, and obviously the crowd was predominately straight edgers.

It was classic gang mentality; they were all wearing matching jackets and making sure everyone knew it was "their" show. Fights were breaking out with people who were smoking in the smoking area, and they were just giving everybody dirty looks. Near the end of the show, they were taking cheap shots at people in the mosh pit, and forming human chains to squash people up against the front of the stage. :x Most childish things I've ever seen at any show.

[chadizzy1]

this thread is a testament to the ADD of SnusOn

[daruckis]

I gotta say those strait edgers were total jerks in my experience and the ones I knew were total hypocrites

I respect the pledges made by someone who is straight edge, and I have known a few very cool people who were in that scene, but for the most part they are generally assholes. I went to a Strife show years ago (good band) with an SE friend of mine, and obviously the crowd was predominately straight edgers.

It was classic gang mentality; they were all wearing matching jackets and making sure everyone knew it was "their" show. Fights were breaking out with people who were smoking in the smoking area, and they were just giving everybody dirty looks. Near the end of the show, they were taking cheap shots at people in the mosh pit, and forming human chains to squash people up against the front of the stage. :x Most childish things I've ever seen at any show.

i was the only straight edge kid in my group of friends, until i wisened up around the age of 18. morals and all that is cool and all, but straight edge as a whole is a pretty elitist attitude that i just cant stand.

[Jason]

elitist attitude

Good way to put it; those two words are actually exactly how I would describe that scene.

FWIW though, some really good bands came out of it. I was a big Minor Threat fan (as well as Fugazi later on).....as far as the newer ones, I liked Earth Crisis and Shades Apart quite a bit.

[tom502]

I like Youth of Today, which later evolved into Shelter, which I still like.

[Veganpunk]

I love Minor Threat. I see pop punk as more of a sound as well. Not based on mainstream/popular. I have friends who rile me up by calling The Ataris emo because 90% of the time they sing about girls. That does not make it emo. The only good emo bands I cared for was The Get Up Kids, and they maybe considered emo - The Weakerthans. Their F*$@(ing brilliant. The lead singer is from Propagandhi. Another really good punk band.

Oh and Daruckis, I loved the self-titled Blink album as well. I mean it has Robert Smith on it, how could you not like it!

Oh and Superfuzz Bigmouth rocks!!

[RRK]

I see pop punk as more of a sound as well. Not based on mainstream/popular.

So which bands are not pop punk? Are they all hardcore punk? I looked Blink and the Ataris up on wikipedia and the first sentence of both is that they are pop punk.

[Veganpunk]

Yea, I'd consider both of those pop punk. Anything that is catchy, upbeat, but still uses the 4 chord technique. Screeching Weasel, Buckwild, The Ramones, Squirtgun, Mr. T Experience. Bands that are "less friendly" on the ears - Guttermouth, The Dwarves, early Rise Against, I'd consider punk.

[Veganpunk]

Chad, we don't have ADD, we've been talking music for like 3 pages now!! :wink:

[RRK]

Yea, I'd consider both of those pop punk. Anything that is catchy, upbeat, but still uses the 4 chord technique. Screeching Weasel, Buckwild, The Ramones, Squirtgun, Mr. T Experience. Bands that are "less friendly" on the ears - Guttermouth, The Dwarves, early Rise Against, I'd consider punk.

Ok, I looked it up. I really don't know why I never heard punk called pop punk until Green Day and Blink but it seems like the definitions pretty much group all of the subgenres of punk into either pop punk or hardcore. They first used the term to describe Tom Petty but the sound came about with the Ramones who many would call the first true punk band. It seems to me that what was originally called punk rock is now called pop punk to differentiate it from hardcore punk that developed in the '80s. It's just a little disturbing to me as a title since punk is kind of a rejection of pop.