Any plans to stock up before FDA regulation or PACT kick in?

[Mohave]

You are choosing to define it very differently than the authors of the act, and everyone who has followed the legislative history of it. Good luck with that. Absolutely nobody involved, proponents or opponents, shares your novel creative interpretations. The FDA has made it clear enough that it will be following the legislative intent, as clearly understood by all involved. But believe what makes you happy.

‘(A) any tobacco product (including those products in test markets) that was not commercially marketed in the United States as of February 15, 2007; or

‘(B) any modification (including a change in design, any component, any part, or any constituent, including a smoke constituent, or in the content, delivery or form of nicotine, or any other additive or ingredient) of a tobacco product where the modified product was commercially marketed in the United States after February 15, 2007.

Is anyone aware of a licensed brick are mortar tobacco retailer anywhere in the US that had Swedish snus for sale before 2/15/07, and any such product that has been continuously available without modification of its ingredients distributed nationally in such licensed tobacco retailers within the US? That would be good news. I'd like to hear about that. But if not, y'all are blowing smoke.

Not even the international web based vendors who mail it to us now have been so foolish as to make any representations as to its legal status as they do so, and are wise enough to warn that customs importation and legal issues in the destination country are not their responsibility. Unlicensed legally ambiguous at best (ahem) informal ordering from overseas, which currently gets through to us individually in small quantities, is not gonna be an impressive case to make, and in fact the manufacturer may put themselves at considerable risk of losing their license to distribute tobacco products from their much larger investment in other products existing in the American market (Swedish Match owns Red Man, Borkum Riff, Half 'n Half, and others) by associating themselves with it.

[justintempler]

Mohave,

There is no sense in us arguing back and forth. You are making assertions that you know how they define substantially equivalent and what their intent is, fine they are just that, assertions. I disagree.

If you have something that is more detailed that pertains specifically to snus I'd be more than glad to see it.

Until then let's just agree to disagree. And if you are right, I guess you'll be able to say "I told you so" after it happens then huh?

[Mohave]

I think you should listen to or read what was said in the United States Congress in the process of drafting and adopting it. I have heard every last bit of it. That is a much better source than me, or you. Take a look at the Congressional Record, including both the committee testimony and the floor remarks, or the archived video of the proceedings, if you are actually serious. And make up your own mind what you think it means, as you wish.

[justintempler]

]Is anyone aware of a licensed brick are mortar tobacco retailer anywhere in the US that had Swedish snus for sale before 2/15/07, and any such product that has been continuously available without modification of its ingredients distributed nationally in such licensed tobacco retailers within the US? That would be good news. I'd like to hear about that. But if not, y'all are blowing smoke.

http://swedishsnus.com/US/newsevents.asp?ID=2

[Mohave]

]Is anyone aware of a licensed brick are mortar tobacco retailer anywhere in the US that had Swedish snus for sale before 2/15/07, and any such product that has been continuously available without modification of its ingredients distributed nationally in such licensed tobacco retailers within the US? That would be good news. I'd like to hear about that. But if not, y'all are blowing smoke.

http://swedishsnus.com/US/newsevents.asp?ID=2

Excellent! That link provides the best news, actually almost the only good news, I've seen on this subject in months, and it is exactly what I was hoping for. It appears they may have just barely made it, within days.

By the way, Camel SNUS didn't. They were only test marketing a different formulation than their current snus prior to the cutoff, and their product is in deep sheetrock. That is intentional. Philip Morris has agreed with CFTK to support this legislation, to shut out it's competition, especially RJ Reynolds, which is going to take it in the ash-hole in a number of ways.

Thank you for that. It is very good news which most likely means those specific Swedish Match products can still be distributed from brick and mortar retailers under the terms of the FDA legislation. I'm delighted. Thanks again.

EDIT TO ADD:

J.Templer, you seem annoyed to be contradicted on this, I can understand that, but one can hardly expect to continue with assertions that the act does not mean what every interest group both for and against it, including those lobbying on it full time on the hill, the congressional author and sponsors, and the staff of the committees of the Congress drafting it have all publicly said it does, repeatedly over many months, and forestall anyone mentioning anything to the contrary when doing so. Someone will continue to do so. If you are not sure and truly interested in finding out more, you may want to contact this fellow, who is a "harm reduction" advocate working full time on the issue, trying (unsuccessfully) to get amendments making it less oppressive for products such as these, including his testimony before the congress. Here is his public contact information:

• Bill Godshall
  Executive Director
  Smokefree Pennsylvania
  PO Box 81570
  Pittsburgh, PA 15217
  412-351-5880
  Fax 351-5881
  smokefree@compuserve.com

I do not happen to agree with most of what Bill is for, by the way, since he is anti-smoking while I am not, and he comes at snus strictly from a "less harm" point of view. But he knows this issue cold, has been working it for years, and is a notable expert "public health" type who is on our side on this issue.

Or if you are in the mood for some self-punishment, you can contact these insane professional fascistic zealots, who are the most potent public force behind the legislation. Personally I've heard more than my fill from them in the past few years, and I'd prefer to hear that they have managed to choke themselves to death on their own self-righteousness. They hysterically hate all things even remotely connected to tobacco use (not just cigarette smoking) in any form whatsoever, and they negotiated the deal with Philip Morris that is leading to where we are now. Ask them directly to see what they think their law, that they wrote, really says and does, if you like: http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/index.php

Mr. Godshall is understandably rather busy right now and might have to be a little slow to respond to individual requests for info; from the civility of your tone in your posts I feel confident you are sensible enough to be judicious about that. But please feel free to keep the CFTK twits busy with as many questions (hopefully annoying) as you care to, as a public service. Personally I don't have the stomach for it.

[Mohave]

To the topic of the OP of this thread: Would I be correct in thinking that white portions might tend to keep in deep storage somewhat better than others, and that so-called "purified portions" may tend to keep best of all? Not sure where I got that idea. It may have been from some of you here while perusing earlier threads, I'm not sure. I have been leaning more heavily towards white portions (among those I know I enjoy) in my ordering for storage, for that reason.

[lxskllr]

I just put in a $100 order. I really don't have the money due to being on unemployment, but I got some kind of $300 "stimulus" bonus on my last benefit payment. I'm using some of that to stimulate Sweden.

[rscott222]

You could have ordered from getsnus!

[Kvlt]

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-4081

It looks like it is done. No action for awhile.

[HK11]

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-4081

It looks like it is done. No action for awhile.

I think the hoopty doo is about
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1676

The question is: Can we get SM to make snus filled cigars?

[chainsnuser]

The question is: Can we get SM to make snus filled cigars?

That's a good idea IMHO, but don't take this all too easy. I had the same idea once, why Swedish Match doesn't simply sell snus in the EU, labeled as "chewing tobacco", which is still free for sale in the EU, but it's not that easy. Politicians are bastards but they aren't idiots. Laws prevent Swedish Match and other snus-producers from doing so.

You won't believe what magnitude of nonsense is possible in politics. In the EU the sale of snus is forbidden, while traditional chewing tobacco (fire cured and fermented, which I personally don't see as "black" as many here, but it absolutely cannot be 'healthier' than snus), oral tobacco with North African heritage (the manufacturing process is totally unknown!) and Indian oral tobacco varieties, some of them probably more dangerous than smoking, with unknown manufacturing process and unknown ingredients or ingredients which are known as extremely hazardous to one's health, can be sold freely. Not to mention cigarettes, which can be bought everywhere and everytime.

It's indeed all about the cigarette-taxes and in case of the PACT-Act also about the wellbeing of Philip Morris, it's not about health at all. Everytime money is in the game, the governments won't stick at nothing.

BTW, one aspect of the current EU-tobacco-regulation was to "grandfather" old tobacco-products and to only ban new ones, quite similar to the PACT-Act. Snus has been sold in Germany since the 1980's, which lead to the biggest community of snusers outside of Sweden, (nowadays the community of snusers in the U.S. is probably already bigger). I remember seeing snus cans (which I confused with pipe-tobacco at that time, while I still was a cigarette-smoker) at literally every gas-station, yet snus is banned in Germany since 2002.

It's extremely sad that the USA now follows the abominable EU-tobacco-legislation and maybe even goes one step further in the direction of a total snus-ban.

Cheers!

[Lucky Striker]

oral tobacco with North African heritage (the manufacturing process is totally unknown!)

Mohammed the prophet brings Tunisians their tobacco. That's why the process is totally unknown. :shock:

[ODurren]

Anyone know if it was Passed or not by Senate? I thought it was supposed to be at least reviewed if not voted on by Senate on like June 1st-3rd or something. Online sources I've seen aren't looking too updated.

In regards to "stocking up"... nah I'm not worried too much about it.

[whalen]

I refuse to answer that based on the fact that i have current orders in that I need filled before you guys all panic! I will say that next friday I should be the proud owner of a new 5 cubic foot GE chest freezer in the basement! Honestly, I think we will have time to stock up, you guys should all wait at least another week or so! :roll:

[lxskllr]

I refuse to answer that based on the fact that i have current orders in that I need filled before you guys all panic! I will say that next friday I should be the proud owner of a new 5 cubic foot GE chest freezer in the basement! Honestly, I think we will have time to stock up, you guys should all wait at least another week or so! :roll:

I ordered now because If I don't I'll spend the "extra" money I have on something frivolous like food. I'm taking the threat very seriously. If it works out in our favor, great, I have some extra snus in the freezer. If it doesn't, I want to be prepared so I have enough until I can afford to buy it in person(or barring that, move to a country that keep the **** out of it's citizens lives).