420 Use and Health

[BadAxe]

I personally think cannabis is evil for the above reasons, I will never touch it again (tbh didn't do much for me, can get the same way via drink, which I enjoy more!). However as stated previously I don;t judge anyone who does use it, its their choice who am I to criticise. However I do think it has massive benefits for chronic pain and other uses, when the bit that gets you high is removed, what is left can be utilised to great effect as sgreger1 said earlier.

Well I am not saying you should feel differently about pot, but to state you will use alcohol instead and you like it more, well, when talking about health concerns, alcohol is absolutely toxic in the human body and there are no positives at all derived from the intake of alcohol. Again, not comparing it to weed in any way, just staying, alcohol is just so bad for humans.

[Ansel]

I think cannabis with some of those medications is not a good idea. I remember seeing a book for sale that argued that the medications prescribed for scizophrenia just prolonged the illness having the patient battling the side-effects of the medication while on them and the withdrawel effects if they stopped taking them - didn't read it so can't make a valued judgement on it.

[Reynard]

As for cannabis, I can see why you would be completely against it, because even if there is a remote possibility that it made your condition worse than it would have otherwise been in the absence of marijuana, why advocate for something that could potentially change your life in a negative way? Like being bitten by a dog at a young age and then being afraid of dogs forever, it appears to me as completely rational to have the feelings you have towards marijuana.

But...
There is a very slim chance that if I stroke a dog (after being bitten by one in youth) I will get hurt
There is a 100% chance that if I use cannabis (after smoking it in youth) i will get very sick.

So a fear/hatred of dogs is illogical, whereas a fear/hatred of cannabis (within this context) is perfectly sound logically.

[Frosted]

Well, if we're just talking about one illness, schizophrenia which affects 1 in 100, they will have an adverse reaction. There are lots of other things that people have other than schizophrenia which will have an adverse reaction to cannabis, so we're now talking about a huge number of the population having an adverse reaction.

It personally, like you Sgreger, makes me anxious. I don't like it at all, and because I've got children I'd hate for their growing brains to be damaged by the exceptionally strong stuff going around. If I could, I'd rid the world of the stuff. Yes, there's worse things, like coke and heroin but I don't even want to go there on this conversation.

Tobacco on the other hand is wonderful.

[sgreger1]

SGreger,

There's no need to apologise, I just hope you can understand why there is passion in my writing. I suppose I've learned to despise cannabis, probably as a mechanism of self defence. Though, you may have preconceptions of how schizophrenics should 'act' or 'seem', and you expect that all schizophrenics should be in acute phase. We're not. I do feel sorry for your bro-in-law mate, I hope he gets better.

Sorry you have anxiety problems. What coping strategies do you use?



Haha very drole

Well it's not so much that I have preconceptions about how those with this illness should "act" or "seem", but rather I am aware that people with this illness suffer at varying degrees. Some are completely functional and just have personal internal battles they have to deal with (and are often helped with medications), while some are completely lost in their own world seperate from reality and don't even believe they have schizophrenia so they won't take their medications, and most fall somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. The only preconception I have is that you appear through your writings here to be on the good end of that scale which is totally awesome and I am glad you aren't suffering from what my brother in law goes through, though I am aware that you have your own struggles as well.

As for cannabis, I can see why you would be completely against it, because even if there is a remote possibility that it made your condition worse than it would have otherwise been in the absence of marijuana, why advocate for something that could potentially change your life in a negative way? Like being bitten by a dog at a young age and then being afraid of dogs forever, it appears to me as completely rational to have the feelings you have towards marijuana. I caution other users too because while marijuana is generally a benign substance relative to other drugs, it does carry with it the possibility of triggering some issues, especially if those issues already exist or have yet to come forward.

As for my anxiety, I don't know exactly where it stems from. I noticed it after I smoked MJ for a while, at which point I reluctantly stopped because I kept thinking I was having a heart attack, but then I was in the army for a while and once I got out my anxiety was even worse. I have also used other drugs in the past that certainly made all of this worse, so for me I think it is just a combination of things that have caused this anxiety. I spend at least 5 days out of the week feeling like I am having a stroke or a heart attack and it is so real that I can't help but going to the doctor sometimes because I think I really am having a heart attack. Then they give me some pills and it goes away, so clearly it was all in my head. Right now I am just trying to exercise and keep my BP down since that seems to help the most, I also have some ativan in case I have a panic attack which do happen out of no where and semi-frequently. That way I can just pop one of those and save myself a trip to the ER lol. I tried yoga and meditation and that worked too but I kind fo stopped all that, even though it was very effective.

In regards to the OP of this article, I will note that this morning on the radio I heard a report stating that something like 30% of high school kids reported that they had smoked marijuana within the past week, as opposed to only like 15% who reported smoking cigarettes. This was attributed to the fact that high schoolers perceive marijuana as less harmfull. By and large, and for the vast majority of people, I would say this perception is correct and harm reduction is always a mantra of mine. At the same time I look to my own struggles and realize that, while 1,000 people may react fine to it, it really sucks if you end up being that one guy who has adverse reactions and it messes you up. Also, like you said, smoking it before your 20's can have notable changes to your brain structure and we still dont' know exactly what that means in terms of side effects or performance over a lifetime. So smoking in high school is probably a terrible idea for a variety of reasons, but most importantly because you are ****ing with your brain. When I was in high school that was not the prevailing opinion so everyone just smoked the shit like it was drinking tea. I don't know if that is what caused my anxiety and frequent panic episodes, but when i stopped it got better, and when i started again it got worse, so to me I would say that (at least in my case), it's the cannabis that is causing (or did cause) it, so I stay away. Plus I am married and have children now so it's not really something I can partake of anyways for the sake of my daughter. I don't really think marijuana is very harmfull relative to drinking alcohol or anything, but you don't want to create an environment where it is seen as normal or acceptable. If she smoked when she was in her 20's I wouldn't be heartbroken or anything, but i'd hate to see her doing that as an adolescent and then saying it was because she saw me doing it my whole life.

[Reynard]

SGreger,

There's no need to apologise, I just hope you can understand why there is passion in my writing. I suppose I've learned to despise cannabis, probably as a mechanism of self defence. Though, you may have preconceptions of how schizophrenics should 'act' or 'seem', and you expect that all schizophrenics should be in acute phase. We are mostly not, and most of us are capable of acting and communicating fairly reasonably (whilst entertaining notions like 'I am the third horseman of the apocalypse'...lol)

I do feel sorry for your bro-in-law mate, I hope he gets better. Sounds like he's in a bad place.

Sorry you have anxiety problems. What coping strategies do you use? I love my qigong meditation, it's great for stress, I'd recommend it

I'm doin my best to be healthy here, but the greasy mexican food is just too delicious Vulpes, I can't help myself

Haha very drole

[sgreger1]

I never knew that a member of my family was diagnosed 20 years ago. I only found out last week. He's extremely coherent and intelligent.

Schizophrenia is pretty common, I too have more than one person who is close to my family who has this ailment. For the ones that are lucid of the illness and able to take medications, it is usually controlled so it wouldn't surprise me that someone could slip by for 20 years without anyone noticing. My wife's best friend is schizophrenic (amongst other things) and I never would have known if she didn't tell me. On the other end of the spectrum, it can be such an ugly illness that destroys the lives of people who would otherwise be coherent and intelligent individuals. I wish you all could see my brother in law, just in the last 4 years he went from being able to come in and out of being normal, to now where he is so fully entrenched in the disease that he is just unable to be controlled and lives mainly on the street despite having a house to live in if he wanted to. Like autism, schizophrenia can range from slightly incapacitating to completely debilitating. I am just thankfull that Vulpes and your family member appear to be closer to the former, and are at least able to live their lives to some extent and keep it controlled with medication. I could not imagine the struggles someone with a complicated ailment like that goes through, from what I gathered from close friends who have it, it is not a happy experience.

[sgreger1]

You have been wrong on a few issues here Sgreger. You are talking to someone with the illness here (Vulpes) and I understand everything that Vulpes is saying. He's absoloutely correct.
There are different forms of schizophrenia and different levels of it but it's still schizophrenia and it's still debilitating to themselves and family/friends.

It's a no brainer that people who suffer this should stay away from any self medication apart from tobacco but getting them not to self medicate is another story. Professional help is essential.

I am wrong all the time, as I am only human. I did not mean to downgrade her illness, I actually meant it as a compliment in that my brother in law is so advanced in his level of schizophrenia that he is not even aware of his condition and really can't even be helped at this point as he will forcibly break out of whatever institution he is sent to. We have sent him to every rehab, mental facility etc from here to the Phillipines (literally) and he doesn't even realize he has an issue so it is hard to keep him off the streets or off crystal meth. Vulpes on the other hand is an intelligent poster on this forum who is at least lucid of her ailment and appears on the surface to be very normal (obviously I have no insight into the private life of Vulpes so I wouldn't know what his personal strugles are). On top of that he is able to stay on her medications, which my brother in law couldn't do in a trillion years even if they were shoved down his throught he would throw them up since he doens't believe he is sick. It was for this reason that I was saying that there are different levels of schizophrenia and that a true (bad choice of words, should have been high level) schizophrenic isn't even aware of their condition as they are not mentally capable of being lucid to their own illness. I did not mean it as an insult and rather ment to say that Vulpes comes off as totally normal on the forums, which I think we would all agree with.

[Frosted]

I never knew that a member of my family was diagnosed 20 years ago. I only found out last week. He's extremely coherent and intelligent.

[sgreger1]

Each day is a struggle, I think I'm the Antichrist half the time. You haven't seen **** first hand, try walking a mile in my shoes.

And just because I'm lucid and eluquent doesn't mean I'm not a TRUE schizophrenic, as you insinuate. How dare you downgrade my experience. I'm well medicated, I tried coming off my meds - it's not pretty.

Edit: I removed a section that was quite personal and written in the heat of the moment.

Whoah vulpes I am deeply sorry that you misinterpreted my post (or rather my poor choice of words), I did not in ANY way meant to downgrade your experience at all, and I deeply apologize if it came off that way. I simply ment that you come off as completely intelligent and mentally indistinguishable from your non-ill counterparts here on the forum, whereas my brother in law is 100% all the time bat-shit out of his mind crazy, without a single 5 minute break anywhere in-between. I didn't in any way mean to make it seem like you weren't a "real" schizophrenic or anything and I'm sorry for my choice of words, I just ment that compared to him you are worlds apart (at least from what I can perceive through your written text, I have no insight into your daily struggles).

Again, I really did not mean to be offensive and am really sorry if I came off that way. I'm shooting these messages off at work in-between tasks so I am not putting as much thought into them as I should be.

As for the whole arguing because i'm a pothead thing, I do not smoke cannabis and can not smoke cannabis because it gives me extreme anxiety, and just like cannabis triggered your condition which you now live with, I believe cannabis triggered my anxiety condition which has me in the ER at least once per year thinking I am dying of heart attack or stroke. I smoked when I was younger, and then stopped for many years, then my Dr prescribed it to me (ironically for anxiety since the pills weren't working) and it quickly became apparent that cannabis was making it worse and even exacerbating it so I promptly stopped and found a new doctor. I am not an advocate for smoking weed, but rather an advocate for facts and the freedom to do what one pleases. I didn't mean to argue, just stating that as far as research can tell, marijuana does not CAUSE the problems you or I face, but rather triggers and exacerbates them to various degrees. That was all I was trying to say.

As for eating an apple, I grow my own veggies in large quantities and bike for 20-30 miles a week, on top of usually bicycling to and from work, plus I walk for 1 hour every day at lunch time. This is all in an effort to help lower my blood pressure and help me sleep/relieve my anxiety. I do not smoke pot, and only drink about 2-4 glasses of wine or beer per week at most while having dinner. I'm doin my best to be healthy here, but the greasy mexican food is just too delicious Vulpes, I can't help myself

[Reynard]

I want to retract the last paragraph of my previous post, as it's quite personal, and for that, Sgregor, I apologise sincerely. I understand that cannabis can be used in parallel with other wholesome ways of life, and that it even has (and there is no debate here) medicinal uses. I don't want to upset you with comments made in the heat of the moment.

I hope you can understand that these arguments are not a dry debate for me, and my opinions on cannabis are deeply entrenched in over a decade of various incarnations of misery. I'm lucky to still be alive, on many counts.

[Frosted]

Each day is a struggle, I think I'm the Antichrist half the time. You haven't seen **** first hand, try walking a mile in my shoes.

And just because I'm lucid and eluquent doesn't mean I'm not a TRUE schizophrenic, as you insinuate. How dare you downgrade my experience. I'm well medicated, I tried coming off my meds - it's not pretty.

The only reason you're even arguing the toss over this is because you're a pothead. Try eating an apple, or going for a jog, or praying. Something wholesome.

You have been wrong on a few issues here Sgreger. You are talking to someone with the illness here (Vulpes) and I understand everything that Vulpes is saying. He's absoloutely correct.
There are different forms of schizophrenia and different levels of it but it's still schizophrenia and it's still debilitating to themselves and family/friends.

It's a no brainer that people who suffer this should stay away from any self medication apart from tobacco but getting them not to self medicate is another story. Professional help is essential.

[Frosted]

I wouldn't called her ****ed up, I'd call her ill.

Absoloutely right.

[Reynard]

I am glad that you don't have anything that severe vulpes, as I have seen first hand how much suffering something like schizophrenia or psychosis can cause.

Each day is a struggle, I think I'm the Antichrist half the time. You haven't seen **** first hand, try walking a mile in my shoes.

And just because I'm lucid and eluquent doesn't mean I'm not a TRUE schizophrenic, as you insinuate. How dare you downgrade my experience. I'm well medicated, I tried coming off my meds - it's not pretty.

Edit: I removed a section that was quite personal and written in the heat of the moment.

[Reynard]

Sounds like her mother is ****ed up for knowingly allowing her to take mushrooms!

That sounds about right! Lol