Dipper's Guide to Snus

[Snusdog]

From another thread

Topic: Why wouldn't American Tobacco want to make a quality snus

So my question is this.

As American cig companies turn to snus as a viable product………why make crap, when if they do it correctly, they would have customers, and addicted customers like they seek with cig smokers.

I just don't get why they make crap for us in the US, when they see how it can be done properly.

BA consider the following:

Let’s say you made big v-8 cars. You had the corner of the market. Every one who drove a car drove a v-8 you made.

Why would you want to start producing smaller v-4 cars? You will have to go to countless costs to retool your production facilities. You will have to spend countless dollars to “create an image” for your product. You will have to spend millions developing your supply sources for the parts necessary for your new product (i.e for the new blends of tobacco necessary for your product in the volume that will now be required).

For what?

You will never regain your current market share (women especially think v-4 cars are for toothless rednecks). In other words, you will spend millions in order to be assured of loosing millions.

Best keep the myth going that v-4s are no better for ecological health than v-8s, best make sure that foreign competition is kept out, best make sure that you control the information that is disseminated (Just look at who sponsored PACT and how it was presented to the public)

THE LAST THING THAT AMERICAN TOBACCO WANTS IS A SAFE ALTERNATIVE TO CIGERETTS or WE WOULD ALREADY HAVE IT

Hope this helps

dog 8)

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Edit: as a side: in the above analogy about big cars- that is exactly what happened to the US auto makers. They did not want to retool. However, the problem was that the US government did not back the auto makers. Instead they let Japanese economy cars flood the market. It almost killed the US auto makers and to some degree they never really recovered.

In my opinion that will go down in history as one of the most significant events in US history (right up there with the Revolutionary and Civil war) in that it establishes an epochal shift in the principals by which our entire legislative process is directed and interpreted. It is the moment that American politics stopped being shaped by big American business and began to be shaped by big international business.

[Snusdog]

From Another Thread

Topic: Snus verses American Dip

meh, i don't believe most of what i read on here about dip and the horrors/chemicals/evil american corporate conspiracy.
copenhagen snuff was trademarked in 1822...ground tobacco and flavorings.
imo people want to hate on dip more so it makes them feel better about using a very similiar product.

Well I hope you folks realize my "fiberglass" references are purely for the LoLs. It gets Liandri all hot and bothered.

But anyhoo being a former dipper of Copenhagen snuff for 30 years, I can tell you this. Without even swallowing the juices, I had steady heartburn nightly. Nothing else has changed in my diet. My gums constantly felt like a washboard and looked brown even after vigorous brushing and mouthwash. I've had various occasions where "canker" type sores - whiteheads, whatever... broke out around my lower gumline and inner cheek. The one time I did swallow some Cope, I damn near shit my pants and luckily was close to the can.

With that said, I know I'm still what many would consider a newB at snus, however I maintain a pretty steady diet of the strongest snus in Starks and ES's. I lös nightly, sometimes more-so. NEVER as of yet (knock on wood) have I experienced ANY of the former mentioned symptons/reactions I experienced whilst dipping cope. And I don't spit snus, in fact I've accidentally ate some whole portions and swallowed some bits of lös on occasion.

Maybe it is all psychological but I'm rather pleased with Swedish snus in comparison to American dip.

And this

I chain dipped. I now chain snus.

In the 3 years I have snused I have never once had the ridges burned into my lip, teeth hurt, white spots that I regularly got from dip. Not once.

Yes I get salt abrasion and rubbing against the lip from pressure. But this is not the same thing as I experienced with dip- at all!

No I do not think that American companies are trying to poison people.

However, I do think they are trying to speed production while lowering the cost of production. I do think that they are trying to chemically prolong shelf life, I do think they are trying to enhance the addictive delivery system (all the while using lower grade leaf- which has less naturally occurring nicotine).

And no this is not mere speculation or conspiracy theory. The alteration of tobacco products resulting in adverse effects on the consumer’s health is well documented and has resulted in very large sums of money in tobacco settlement cases. FACT.

Do I believe American tobacco is more conscientious about what goes into their product? Yes but only some what. In fact, I think it is more accurate to say that they are more careful and more wily. One thing is certain, American tobacco has made it quite clear that they CARE NOTHING about producing a safe alternative to cigarettes (just look at how they market Camel snus- the in between smokes solution.).

So here is a question, are Swedish production methods a big trade secret? Do the Swedes alone know how to pasteurize tobacco? WHY THEN DO THE AMERCAN COMPANIES NOT CHOOSE THE SAFER METHOD OF PRODUCTION IF THEY KNOW HOW TO DO IT?

Ingredients list tell only part of the story. Genetically altering plants (not necessarily bad), growing methods (including fertilization), curing, and processing will all affect the final product without ever showing up on an ingredients list.

If there is no chemical difference then why is SNUS A FOOD PRODUCT and DIP IS NOT

Your optimism does not take into account these documented concerns much less the existential experiences of the vast majority of dippers (be it lip lacerations, swallowing the juice, the difference in the refrigeration requirements between the two purportedly identical products).

I’ll ask it again….. Why is one chemically identical product food while the other is not?

No this is not European snobbery…...…Rather, it is just a desire for a coherent narrative that is able to make intelligible the vast array of concerns (verses disjointed, antidotal, and piecemeal explanations that never provide a satisfactory picture)


dog 8)

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And this

Before I forget nice post Laz!!! Spot on!

Look, I do not pretend to be an expert or have any insider information. I look at the same ingredients lists that everyone else does. I read the same articles that everyone else does.

But it’s like I’m standing at the side of the road looking across a bridge. I keep seeing cars slide off the bridge into the water below. I post that from now on I’m taking the bridge that the Swedes have built because it’s safer.

People get all bothered. Someone sends me analysis of the concrete used on both bridges showing it is the same. Another tells me how they drove across the bridge with their granny and nothing happened. Someone else chimes in that they once got a flat tire on the bridge and they have also gotten a flat tire on the Swedish bridge.

But one thing that no one has done so far is to explain what all those damn cars are doing in the ravine right below the bridge called dip.

In other words, no one has explained the obvious situation that is right in front of everyone’s eyes:

Why isn’t dip food?

Why isn’t it pasteurized?

Given American Tobacco’s history, do these concerns merit caution and a healthy suspicion concerning American tobacco products? In other words, if it ain’t quacking like a duck and if it can’t swim like a duck is it fair for us to question the assertion that it’s a duck, just like all the ducks in Sweden?

That's all I've been trying to say.

Peace


:?:

:!:

8) dog

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[LaZeR]

It may just be me, but grov los tastes a lot like cope (at least the way I remember it). That might be worth mentioning to a cope convert.

That's true. I swapped a can of Grov to can of Copenhagen Snuff few years back with American lad I met at work. We both came to conclusion that originally they were same type of snus and you can still taste and feel that.

I'll have to revisit some Grov lös as its been a month or so since my only tin but can't remember getting this impression as per the comparison to copenhagen personally. Now I will say this damn Oden's ES Original lös is giving me about the most memorable experience looking back 30 years when I took my first pinch of cope. The taste is somewhat there but WOW what a damn buzz & nausea.... Didn't know whether I was going to shit my pants or vomit first. Somehow I managed to get through the experience doing neither, however I will warn. DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT use a 5ml icetool over a click OR you better have a toilet handy.

With that said, I will certainly be revisiting my beloved Oden's in it's wonderful lös form but will keep it about the size of my pinky fingernail. Might even try hillbilly-ing a two-finger mini pinch in the bottom lip. I think this one might be the closest yet to Copenhagen snuff in my opinion.

[texasmade]

^^ been saying that since i started using grovsnus los.

[AllanH]

It may just be me, but grov los tastes a lot like cope (at least the way I remember it). That might be worth mentioning to a cope convert.

That's true. I swapped a can of Grov to can of Copenhagen Snuff few years back with American lad I met at work. We both came to conclusion that originally they were same type of snus and you can still taste and feel that.

[texasmade]

once you get the snus in, you push it and pack it with your tongue, then lift it onto your tongue and roll it between your tongue and roof of your mouth. basically pack it some and coat it lighlty in saliva.

No no no.... B wants to know how to get it OUT without having to use water to rinse. It sounds like you are talking about putting the pris in (unless I'm mistaken)

However, your point is nonetheless a very good one. I think as most folks get the hang of los, they will learn to use their tongue more and more to set the pris and get it into place with less hassle

don't know how i missed this...but yes I was talking about putting it in.

Its basically the tip that i gave in the "methods" post. if it has a light coating of salive it is more likely to stick together and not have stray pieces when you remove it. You can puff your lip out and spit out the pris with no problem or remove it by hand.

if you have trouble rolling it between your tongue and the roof of your mouth you can get a little bit of saliva on the end of your tongue before you attempt to flip and stick the pris and gently roll the pris on the tip of your tongue to coat it then push it back into place.

[Snusdog]

Great post Tex!!!!

Thanks!

8)

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[texasmade]

I've been reading through most of my previous posts from the time I joined this forum up to this point and have decided to add something worthwile to this great forum.

I've tried to give snus to a few dippers here and there to no avail. They go straight for the bottom lip even after I explain to them the differences between snus and dip. So I will list the different ways to approach lossnus.

1. Hand Bake - There are two ways to do this.

Method a. Take a pinch from the can and place it in the palm of your other hand(slightly cupped). Then you compress the loose powder between your palm and fingers by gently pressing your fingers into the lump and forming it into somewhat of a clump or an irregular brick. Once you get it compact enough to pick up you can polish it up some with your pointer and thumb by pressing it into a cylindrical shape and combining the crumbs from the ends into the rest of the pris. Voila, you now have a ready to be used prilla of lossnus.

Method b. Take a pinch from the can and hold it between your pointer and thumb. Begin pressing it into shape with your pointer and thumb on your free hand, rotating the lossnus while you mold it. Basically this method involves cutting out the palm forming part of the first method. in the end you will have the same finished product. The only difference is a couple seconds of your time.


2. Can Bake - This works best when you already have about 1/3 of the snus missing from the can, but is feasible with a full can. You pinch the desired amount you want and then pinch it from the ends to section it off completely. You then compress it slighty, enough to pick it up and flip it over. Once you flip it over repeat the compressing. You can then clean it up by following through with a slight finger polish and forming or just throw it in the top lip.


3. Smash and Toss - You take a pinch and press it down in the can, then press it against the side of the can. Now there are two different ways to go about getting the pris into your upper lip.

a. You can toss up there like a hand baked prilla, or
b. You can place it on your tongue and push it up between your gum and upper lip.


4. Hillbilly - This is the simplest, yet probably one of the most "advanced" techniques, only to be attempted by vets, somewhat seasoned snusers and the occasional opptimistic snubie. As with the aforementioned "Smash and Toss" method there are two ways to approach the insertion.

a. You can take a pinch and push it in between your upper lip and gum, setting it with your pointer finger by pushing it and sliding your finger out.

b. You can take a pinch from the can and compress it with your fingers while bringing it up to your mouth, then place it on your tongue and push it into place.



Those are all of the methods that I am currently aware of that involve the hands and fingers.


TIPS:

if you feel the pris start to "slide" you can fix this by puffing out your upper lip and letting the pris fall down onto your tongue, then flip it and push it back into place with the bottom resting at the top. Then you can push the sides in with your tongue to straighten it out.


edited for spelling

[Snusdog]

From another thread:

Topic: How to- The pinch and toss method

In addition to a tool, I think it will help to learn to hand bake and to pinch and toss. The reason is that between these two techniques and a tool you should be able to handle any varying degree of moisture, grind, and need.

To Pinch and toss

1. Get a pinch with three fingers (not real big- start smaller than what seems right)

2. Gently squeeze the pinch between your fingers and press it against the tobacco in the can- or you can use the lid.). Don’t spend a lot of time. This should be fast. You aren’t baking. You are just compressing the wad a bit.

{Note: if you set the pinch down on the lid at this point, it should look somewhat rough and triangular- don't set it down. I'm just saying what it would look like if you did.}

3. Next, with the pinch still in your fingers,knock off the excess tobacco from around the compressed lump,

4. Finally, put the tobacco firmly in place in your mouth (I think this is one of the most important steps in the process. When you put the tobacco in, really stick it up in there firmly).

5. Give it a good poke/shove with the tongue.

6. Let it set up with out playing with it too much untill it does

7. Enjoy

[Snusdog]

From another thread:

Topic: How to use a Prismaster

1. Double check and make sure that the Pmaster is facing the right way (with the plunger end going into the can). Prismasters are easy to get turned around.

2. Insert the tool and while keeping you thumb on the little slide mechanism, press the Pmaster down hard in the can (repeat this step a few times keeping your thumb firmly against the slide) This should compress the tobacco

3. Remove the Pmaster and hold the tobacco end securely against your thumb

4. Push outwards hard on the slide- like you are trying to eject the pris (you should actually see a little juice on the thumb that is blocking the end of the tool). Again this is to compress the tobacco

5. Pop the pris out and enjoy.

Edit:
The key is to keep the pris small at first (about 2/3 the size of a regular portion) and work up from there.

When using a Prismaster, just don't load it to capacity- put your thumb on the slide and keep it about 2/3 of the way down when you are loading it. Pack it in good and compress it on the lid of the can by putting the open end of the prismaster on the lid and pressing down on the slide.

You can adjust the size of the pris in this way and find what works best for you.

dog 8)

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[texasmade]

once you get the snus in, you push it and pack it with your tongue, then lift it onto your tongue and roll it between your tongue and roof of your mouth. basically pack it some and coat it lighlty in saliva.

I tried this and swallowed the whole damn pris. ops:

its something you have to work with. start with small amounts and work your way up...

hmmm basically tongue baking with the end being the polishing

[LaZeR]

once you get the snus in, you push it and pack it with your tongue, then lift it onto your tongue and roll it between your tongue and roof of your mouth. basically pack it some and coat it lighlty in saliva.

I tried this and swallowed the whole damn pris. ops:

[Snusdog]

once you get the snus in, you push it and pack it with your tongue, then lift it onto your tongue and roll it between your tongue and roof of your mouth. basically pack it some and coat it lighlty in saliva.

No no no.... B wants to know how to get it OUT without having to use water to rinse. It sounds like you are talking about putting the pris in (unless I'm mistaken)

However, your point is nonetheless a very good one. I think as most folks get the hang of los, they will learn to use their tongue more and more to set the pris and get it into place with less hassle

[texasmade]

once you get the snus in, you push it and pack it with your tongue, then lift it onto your tongue and roll it between your tongue and roof of your mouth. basically pack it some and coat it lighlty in saliva.

[Snusdog]

I guess if I could get the hang of using loose in a way that I could 'get it out of my mouth quickly without having to wash my mouth out with water'... I would do los.

bondzai, when you figure that one out please let us know. I have no answer. Rinsing just seems to be part of the los package.

the tongue roll....i never have to rinse my mouth out after removing a pris

:?: Ok what the hell is the tongue roll

(he asked with mild trepidation and a due sense of foreboding)

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