Dipper's Guide to Snus

[Snusdog]

I like the fiberboard. But for me, it just has a certain look and feel... more organic... but I'm thinking Copenhagen Long Cut, which was my favorite, and as I type this it brings back memories of how that was just so good... I'm gonna relapse...

Hey you want to talk old school fiberboad cans.......I remember Happy Days......Earl Cambell used to do their adds

[tom502]

I like the fiberboard. But for me, it just has a certain look and feel... more organic... but I'm thinking Copenhagen Long Cut, which was my favorite, and as I type this it brings back memories of how that was just so good... I'm gonna relapse...

[Snusdog]

yea I'm not a big fan of the fiberboard cans

I guess if I thought about it I prefer plastic over fiberboard........but really for me I care more about how well the lid fits on the can.....back in the day I remember the phantom cans were plastic but the lids were really flimsy

[yassine]

yea I'm not a big fan of the fiberboard cans

[Snusie]

This bears repeating, especially for new los users:

From another thread


Quote Originally Posted by Snusdog

This might be something some of you find helpful

When I first open a can of los……………I pack (smash) the tobacco down in the tin

I have a shot glass that works perfectly to pack the tobacco evenly and tightly.

I have found that this helps the snus stay fresh, moist, and full flavored longer.

It also helps some brands that tend to get crumbly or even a little bitter towards the end of the can

(I am thinking especially of Kronan which is good the first few pinches but becomes more and more bitter the longer the tin is opened)

Anyway……..thought I would pass this along………..try it………. and see if it works for you

[mattzq8sonoma]

Dipper's Guide to Snus

I've been meaning to type something like this for a while. I'm an analytical chemist at Swedish Match and I am very familiar with our processes in both Snus and American Dip.

On the main page, there's the link to "The Differences Between Snus and American Smokeless", which is a pretty decent explanation, albeit some of the information is incorrect. So I'm typing this as a clarification, and addition. Here goes:

Many people have asked this simple question, "what's the difference is between Swedish snus and American dip?" To Americans, they look similar, come in similar cans and both are used orally but that’s where the similarities end! To really understand the differences, we need to start with how they both are made.

American Dip, or Smokeless, is made from tobaccos that are strictly from U.S. grown tobaccos from places like North Carolina, Virginia, Kentucky and West Virginia among othersNot always true, matter of fact that is mostly false. Most American dip is a blend of tobacco's from all over the world. A lot of companies say "100% American grown tobacco" or something on those lines. Some do say "50% Domestic/50% Imported Tobacco". Some do say "100% Domestic" or "100% US" so this is somewhat true. The word "American" is too vague because a lot of tobacco comes from Canada, Mexico, Central America, South America. All of these are considered "American". Copenhagen for instance is 100% American, but 70% US and 30% Brazilian. Swedish Match American Dip brands have tobacco from the US, Canada, Philippines, Italy, Argentina, etc. while Swedish snus uses a variety of different tobaccos from across the globe, including the U.S.! Although both go thru a similar, initial drying process, the American version adds another step here which makes it unique. Piles of sawdust, primarily from Oak or Hickory, are lit and allowed to smolder in the barn. This generates smoke that flavors the tobacco. After that, the smoked, dried tobacco is placed in barrels and allowed to ferment for up to 5 years to develop its character.Ferment here in this sentence is wrong. "Aged" is what should be there. Much like wine or cheese or bourbon, except in those cases the aging process happens after fermentation. Wine and cheese and bourbon are aged to mature the flavor components that are present. American Dip has the flavors added later. Fermentation is after the tobacco is cut & water and salt & other flavor components are added. Water is added to make the fermentation possible, and salt is added so that the fermentation is selective because a lot of microorganisms can't survive in high salinity. Those microbes are not wanted for the fermentation step and the salt will kill most of them. Some companies do moisten and then ferment whole leaves then dry them, then cut but that's not standard practice. That's more of a cigar leaf thing, like the Italian Toscano cigars. After that its cut, flavors and sweeteners are added and then it’s canned.

Swedish snus is processed much differently. Tobaccos from around the world, including the U.S. and Sweden, are chosen and bypass the smokingTraditionally, snus did use fire-cured tobacco. Swedish Match products since around 1980 have NO fire-cured tobacco. Instead they use air-cured and flue-cured tobacco, much like cigarettes, which are lower in TSNA's and other harmful constituents, because of the curing process. To compensate for the loss of the smoky flavors from fire-cured tobacco, artificial smoke flavors are added, which took years and years to perfect because most of those flavors are very fake tasting and smelling. I can't speak for any other snus manufacturers as far as their use of fire-cured tobacco, but Swedish Match snus products contain no fire-cured tobacco. and fermenting. These tobaccos are mixed and stored in a cool warehouse for about 2 years before they are ground together. The grinding process resembles the flour making process that grinds the grain between steel wheels. It’s then sifted and reground until the right consistency is achieved. After that, the ground tobacco is dried and moved into a steam chamber to cure"Cure" is not the right word here. The tobacco is already cured. A more accurate word is "Pasteurize". It's put in a steam chamber under pressure and heat to kill anything that's growing in it and, more importantly, to also kill spores that are present from spore-forming bacteria, which are the primary microbes that can reduce Nitrate to Nitrite. Nitrite plus Nicotine and other Nicotine alkaloids and amines = Nitrosamines. at a low temperature and then moved into flavoring vats. After that, it’s packaged and placed in a cool room for up to 2 weeks to allow the flavors to combine.

The major difference between Swedish snus and American dip is the safety factor. Swedish snus has a considerably lower amount of Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines (TSNA’s), which is a carcinogen, than American Dip. This is due to the omission of the smoking and fermentation steps that American Smokeless brands go thru and the low temperatures that Swedish snus is kept. That’s why Swedish snus is recommended to be stored in temperatures between 38 and 42 degrees Fahrenheit.Snus is refrigerated just to keep the flavor fresh. It has nothing to do with nitrosamine production. Because of the pasteurization step, an unopened can will not rise in nitrosamine content when not refrigerated because the microbes that aid that process aren't present. They are refrigerated because there are no preservatives present, although Propylene Glycol does have preservative properties in tobacco, and the refrigeration helps keep the flavor the way that it is supposed to be.

Thanks for reading, any questions, let me know.

Matt

[mattzq8sonoma]

mattzq8sonoma,

Again thank you for that post

One question: we had a Pinkerton rep tell us that the TNSA levels in its three lines of snuff were 5ppm (compared to SM 2ppm) and that due to the processing methods that level would not elevate with shelf life.

Can you verify that?

If it is true......... then it seems the Pinkerton line would be an option for those who are having trouble obtaining snus.

That said, snus still remains the safer and IMHO superior product.

Thanks
dog

So we're all on the same page, Pinkerton is owned by Swedish Match, and are the US subsidiary of Swedish Match where our US made products are produced and packaged.

Dry basis TSNA's do not rise in the shelf life of any of our products. Some lose a little bit of moisture over the shelf life period, depending on the conditions, so that's why I said dry basis. But there is no activity going on in the packaging that increases TSNAs. Historically speaking, our US snuff products are 5ppm or less, Loose leaf, like Red Man chew, 3 ppm or less. In the last couple years for snuff and loose leaf, they've been less than 4 and 2 ppm, respectively. So yes I would say that Pinkerton products are superior in their safety in terms of snuff products. And snus is safer then snuff IMO.

Matt

[mattzq8sonoma]

I realize that this thread is very old, but I'd like to add a few things coming from the perspective of an analytical chemist who works for Swedish Match to compare our Swedish snus to our American moist snuff from a harmful and potentially harmful constituent point of view and shed some insight.

We all know that moist snuff is fermented, and snus is pasteurized. Others have posted about tobacco blends and that moist snuff uses US tobacco only. This is not true. We purchase tobacco from all over the world for our blends. American grown tobacco is higher in heavy metals like cadmium, mercury, lead, zinc, etc because of the soil composition, and burley tobacco we grow for use in moist snuff has a better ability to transport those heavy metals to the leaves, aka lamina, because these metals are required for the health of the plant. Because of this, we blend with tobaccos from other parts of the world that are lower in metals. Also, US regulations on the use of agrochemicals limit or prohibit the use of thousands of chemicals, but those regulations don't necessarily exist in developing countries, so that is also an area of interest because those chemicals are also very hazardous to human health. So all potentially purchased tobacco is screened for agrochemicals, heavy metals, nitrosamines, etc before purchase.

The curing process is where many of the harmful constituents come in. Tobacco specific nitrosamines are primarily formed not in the growing plant but during the curing process, especially in fire cured tobaccos. They originate from nicotine itself and other similar alkaloids. A lack of O2, heat and high water content in the lamina aid in the production of these compounds tremendously. Methods and methodologies have been developed over the years to limit the formation of these compounds (ie. Good farming practices, flue curing, air curing, etc). Fire curing also adds PAHs to the tobacco.

That said, swedish snus made to the Gothiatek standard, contains no fire cured tobacco, whereas moist snuff is > 50% fire cured tobacco. Brands other than Red Man, Timberwolf and Longhorn... like Grizzly, Kodiak, Copenhagen, skoal are even higher, which correlates to higher tsna, among other harmful constituents.

Fermentation is another area of concern. Pasteurization of snus is basically an elimination of microbials, whereas fermentation is the cultivation of the microbials in a controlled environment of specific moisture content and salinity in order to have specific activity during fermentation and limit unwanted microbial activity, like nitrate reduction to nitrite because nitrite is the key factor in the production of many TSNAs.

As for ingredients, what is there in the ingredient list is what goes into the finished tobacco. So formaldahyde is NOT NOR HAS IT EVER BEEN added to smokeless tobacco products. I cant speak for cigarettes because i do not test those ir know the manufacturing process but most smokeless tobacco makers (except Swedish Match) are the same companies that make cigarettes, so im assuming the same is true for cigarettes. Now, tobacco is a very complex matrix of several thousand compounds, most of which are inherent to the tobacco itself and not added. We can't control what is inherent to the tobacco itself, but we can and do test the levels of these hazardous compounds at every stage of the process so that we know that we are within our very strict standards. Because of this complex matrix, we cannot control every interaction but we do try to understand these interactions and limit the negative ones, for example the production of ethyl carbamate. It is formed by the reaction between ethanol (which us used as a flavor diluent) and urea, that is inherent.

Ingredients that are added to snus and/or snuff are salts, water, buffers (sodium carbonate, magnesium carbonate and/or ammonium carbonate...which are there to raise the pH and therefore, increase the nicotine absorption in vivo, and reduce microbial activity), flavors, ethanol (most Swedish Match snus contains no ethanol and the elimination of ethanol from all is in the final stage), propylene glycol. Other companies add binders and plasticizers but Swedish Match has a very extensive list of compounds that we do not use such as these, and certain flavor components that are considered hazardous.

As for recommended storage, snus is refrigerated because of the lack of addition of certain compounds that have a preservative effect. What I mean by this is snus flavors as you well know are very subtle meaning they are in low concentrations, typically 0.05-0.5%, because the flavors used are very strong so not much is needed. Snuff isnt refrigerated (although it doesn't hurt) because the flavors are added at a high percentage (ie. Wintergreen (methyl salicylate) at 2.5%-3%) and most moist snuff flavors have a preservative effect and hence reduce microbial activity that can cause the rise of nitrosamines. So we dont add formaldahyde or any harmful ingredient to moist snuff.

And for the record, there is no fiberglass in moist snuff.

To conclude smokeless tobacco is safer than cigarettes, although the FDA doesnt allow that verbage to be on the packaging. Swedish snus made to the extremely rigorous standards of Gothiatek, is the safest of smokeless tobacco products on the market today. It is this way because it is the only product out there that has limits to the allowable amounts of hundreds of hazardous constituents.

Any questions or comments, let me know

[Snusdog]

I have a question.

what exactly is the oliver twist? im a bit curious.

The are small pellet like rolls of flavored tobacco (the ones I have had were licorice). They are about the size of a Tic Tac breath mint and similar in shape. They are also pretty low in nicotine. Most pipe stores carry them

[chadizzy1]

As you know, we share this guide on Snubie.com - http://www.snubie.com/diptosnus.html

This guide has been invaluable for our readers. We have hundreds of readers a day, and many of them are former dippers. Thanks for continuing to update this and provide input.

[Snusdog]

From Another Thread

Snus terms and vocabulary

OK - here's an attempt at a Snus glossary for you!

Snus comes in LÖS and PORTION varieties - Lös means loose as in just moist ground up tobacco and portions is where the snus is sealed in small teabags/pouches. Portion snus can be ORIGINAL PORTION (where the portions are moistened and brown with the tobacco juice) or WHITE PORTION (where the portions are dry and white). Occasionally you'll see it written is Swedish as VIT PORTION or just VIT.

A portion is easy, you just pop it under your upper lip and leave it there, but when you use lös snus you need to get it in to your face somehow ... First way to make a PRILLA or PRIS (these are swedish words for a pinch of snus) is to BAKE it sometimes known as HANDBAKING - this is where you take a pinch from the can (thumb and forefinger or thumb and first 2 fingers) and then squidge it together in your other hand to form a neat little elongated pill about the size of a portion and then you put that in your upper lip. Second way is to use a tool to do the work for you - you can either cut the end off an old syringe and use that or you can buy a specifically made device like an ICETOOL or PRIS-MASTER. The third way to use snus is the HILLBILLY PINCH where you take a pinch from the can and shove it straight up there ... this is tricky to do without mess - but is considered better by some as you get much more flavour and nicotine straight away as the snus is not compressed so much. If you're new to lös then you might experience MUDSLIDE where the snus gets moved too much and mixes with saliva before sliding down your teeth. Once you've been snusing for a while you will have developed a SNUS-POCKET which is where the constant presence of snus will leave a little indentation inside your upper lip and make it far easier to snus discreetly.

Other terms you might come across that describe the flavours of traditional snus are:

LAKRITS = Liquorice (the root of the liquorice plant - sweet and musty) ... not to be confused with ...
ANIS = Aniseed - often used in conjunction with liquorice sweets so easily confused Care needs to be taken writing both ANIS and SNUS as spellcheckers change it to something else!
FLADER = Elderflower - an aromatic wild flower
KANEL = Cinnamon
SALMIAK = Ammonium Chloride - a salt that is used far more in Scandanavia than elsewhere and has a distinctive ammonia type taste - often used with LAKRITS
TRANBÄR = Cranberry

Regular snus contains 8mg of nicotine per gram of snus. Stronger snus is called STARK and is in the region of 10-14 mg/g , EXTRA STARK snus is around the 18mg/g mark and the ULTRA STARK / EXTREME ones are in the region of 20mg/g or higher. In the past stronger snus was achieved by making larger portions and you used to be able to get MAXI-PORTIONS which were bigger. MINI-PORTIONS that are usually 0.4g of snus still exist and are marketed towards women mainly - however discreet, they are the most expensive way to buy snus.

Despite the plethora of brands and flavours - by far the most popular and numerous are BERGAMOT flavoured - Bergamot is a Mediterranean citrus fruit that yields an aromatic oil used also in Earl Gray Tea. Second favourite type is plain tobacco flavour like ETTAN the earliest snus brand still made today. Ettan literally means First - or Number 1 - and it was the highest grade of snus made by Jakob Fredrik Ljunglöf back in 1822. Other flavours are easily categorised in to traditional ones (herbal, floral, woody) or modern flavourings (mint, cinnamon, chocolate ... etc)

[Snusdog]

From Another Thread

Okay, I've been an on-and-off dipper for some time now. I recently heard of snus and how much better it is for you than any other tobacco. Now, I'm a good ole' boy who loves nothing more than grabbing a pinch of dip and throwing it in my lower lip. I just picked up my first can of Sweedish snus (General Wintergreen) and I find myself missing the feel of long-cut dip, I never cared for the dip pouches either. Is there any kind of long-cut snus available? If so, what brands do you guys like best?

Welcome to the forum bro.....I too came to snus from dip (25+ years of dipping)

The best thing I can tell you is to approach dip as a related but different tobacco product. If you try to find a snus that is like dip you will either wind up with garbage or just be frustrated.

Second, there are two differences between dip and snus. The first is lip feel. At first snus will be a bit more soluble (for lack of a better word). The second is taste. Snus will be more subtle in taste. Therefore try stronger flavors and courser grinds at first.........Knox, Extreme, General ES (extra stark) Skruf, Grov, Granit, Gustavus, Phantom (Rothrox) Blue.

Third, there are chemicals in dip that are not in snus.....for the first few weeks I found my lip craving that "extra" in dip.....use a stronger snus and know it will pass (that extra is one of the good reasons to switch to snus)

Fourth, though snus is traditionally used in the upper lip, many (myself included) use it "dip style" all the time....sometimes a man has just gotta spit.......That said learning to upper deck it is good because it is more discrete, and the snus tends to last longer....at least at first.......eventually upper and lower will last about the same....plus upper or lower....spitting is an option not a necessity

Anyway....enjoy....and let us know what you find works for you

[Snusdog]

From another thread:

Los versus Portions

OK now for the serious answer:

As an x-dipper here is why I like los………….los has the feel of dip…………..to compare los and portions is like comparing sex without a condom vs. sex with a condom…………ok………….I realize I’m talking to snuson……..so let me rephrase that……………..it’s like comparing sex when the fleshligh batteries are brand new vs. sex when the batteries are dead…………..PP and Whalen ya’ll hold your questions till after class

For me the advantages of los are:

1. The more natural feel. There is something about just plain tobacco in the moth that is superior to anything else. (I realize that x-smokers might not get this at first……….. but x-dippers will). I can upper deck los or I can hillbilly it (dip it) in the lower lip……cause there are sometimes that a man has just gotta spit

2. los offers a slower release of flavor but a longer and eventually more robust flavor. Thus los tends to last longer

3. Like Lx said…….with los you can control the amount you use. Thus I am able to enjoy a good number of Extra Starks by simply reducing the amount I put in

4. Los tend to last longer per tin than portions and thus is more economical

5. Finally, with los there is the sheer joy of pointing out to other members (with their tattoos, acid rock T-shirts, and bad ass attitude) that despite all of that………they still have to put their snus in a tampon to use it ………..Therefore ……….. they will forever be……………….. the designated drivers at snuson night at the pub

In all honesty and with all kidding aside there are advantages to both los and portions. I would classify the advantages of los as aesthetic and the advantages of portions as pragmatic.

Most folks here at snuson (after a bit of time) use both los and portions. Most will tell you it is los at home and portions at work

The Advantages of portions-

1. Portions are more discrete than los and thus better for work and public (especially for those less accustomed to los)- this is the main advantage of portions for many

2. No danger of mudslides- again this is mainly for those newer to los. Regardless, there are no mudslides with a portion

3. Portions are neater- again for those not used to los, portions avoid the roaming stray bits of tobacco that you may encounter in your mouth with los.

4 (This is a big one) With a portion, inserting and getting rid of the snus is much easier and more discrete than it is with los. I say this is a main advantage of portions because no matter how good you get at los……..taking it in and out is still more involved than it is with a portion.

5. Variety. There is a much wider variety of flavors and brands with portions than there is with los


In the end, portions tend to be more discrete and easy to manage. Thus for many they are more practical in a public/work setting than los. On the other hand, los offers a more complete and full snus experience.

So my advice would be to try both…………fit each into the situation where it works for you

And like the88 so wisely said……………don’t look to find a wine to replace beer……………..let the wine(snus) stand on its own merits…………if you do………..I think you will find snus to be a distinct and superior product.

Hope this helps

[Gameness]

Thanks for the write up... I've been snusing for about half a year now and I still cant taste much los... I can initially taste Grov like crazy but then it goes away and tastes as if nothing is there. Do i just need to give it more time? Or whats your suggestion.

Definitely give it more time. It took me much longer to be able to truly taste Ettan/Grov/Prima Fint.

[Jbb]

Thanks for the write up... I've been snusing for about half a year now and I still cant taste much los... I can initially taste Grov like crazy but then it goes away and tastes as if nothing is there. Do i just need to give it more time? Or whats your suggestion.