Cuban snus to USA question

[Mr. Unloadingzone]

Just for the record, did you know it is virtually impossible to buy Gotlandssnus here in mainland Sweden? Gotland is a swedish island and ironically enough the snus is only sold there. :wink:

Is there an embargo against Gotland? :wink:
Cheers!

Long Live Gotland! :!:

[GenuineSpirit]

Well Rob,
I see you have received them and am anxiously waiting for your post on how they taste. Also awaiting auggie's experience.

[holnrew]

Well Rob,
I see you have received them and am anxiously waiting for your post on how they taste. Also awaiting auggie's experience.

Same here.

[RobME]

Sorry for the delay. I'll be posting a review soon. I didn't want to just write my initial impressions, and I also needed to have a bit more time to sample a few other brands that I hadn't yet tasted. I will say the MC & RyJ are more similar to each other than different from one another, and they are substantially different from everything else I've tried, and both are good, at least, to my taste they are. They deserve a better write-up from me and I will be posting soon enough. Thanks for your patience.

Rob

[auggie]

I got my Montecristo and R&J in from WorldwideSnus.com - fresh and tasty.

I'm really digging both the Portion and Los so far, I've had a couple of each - all I can really taste is... fresh ground pepper.

It's kinda one-dimensional - but very enjoyable despite the fact that I was hoping for more depth to the flavor. I might just keep some to have when going out, since it's a pretty suave looking tin.

RobME - get around to the official comparison/reviews :P

[The Mad Celt]

"Cuban Snus"

The tobacco is Cuban, but the final product (snus) is Swedish. Swedish manufactured and regulated, and therefore not subject to the U.S. embargo.
"Romeo y Julieta", "Monte Cristo" and "Tabocca" are fine snus, but I think over-rated and over-priced. I've ordered all three products from BuySnus.com and have never encountered problems with them or U.S. Customs. I live in New Mexico, U.S.A. I used to order from Northerner.com, but switched to BuySnus.com six months ago due to price and delivery considerations...I am certainly glad I did. Snus On!

-The Mad Celt
(http://madceltsnus.blogspot.com/)

FURTHER INFORMATION (from TTB.gov http://www.ttb.gov/tobacco/faq_answers.shtml):

T7: What must I do if I want to import tobacco for personal use?

The Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) does not regulate tobacco products or cigarette papers or tubes that are imported by a person for their personal use. If you are importing tobacco products or cigarette papers or tubes for personal use, you must contact the U.S. Customs and Border Protection and your appropriate State government agency regulating such articles.

[RobME]

Re: "Cuban Snus"

The tobacco is Cuban, but the final product (snus) is Swedish. Swedish manufactured and regulated, and therefore not subject to the U.S. embargo.

Hi MC,
I wish you were right but unfortunately, you're not, (BTW, you've a great snus blog!). The final product is Swedish but the goods (tobacco) are of Cuban origin, and are still subject to sanctions which are still enforced. I appreciate the pointers to ttb.gov, but you only went halfway. The non-regulation of tobacco products (that you quoted below), is valid info but doesn't apply to Cuban goods. If you dug deeper you'd find this, http://www.treas.gov./offices/enforc...uba/cuba.shtml

and clicking on the 'Overview of Sanctions', "IMPORTING CUBAN-ORIGIN GOODS OR SERVICES - Goods or services of Cuban origin may not be imported into the United States either directly or through third countries, such as Canada or Mexico. The only exceptions are: publications, artwork, or other informational materials."

"Romeo y Julieta", "Monte Cristo" and "Tabocca" are fine snus, but I think over-rated and over-priced. I've ordered all three products from BuySnus.com and have never encountered problems with them or U.S. Customs. I live in New Mexico, U.S.A.

I think you were fortunate getting the Cuban tobacco snus from Buysnus. You must've 'slipped through the cracks' or, they confused New Mexico with Mexico, or they just tightned their policy.

The U.S., Cuban embargo's an old story. It's repressive and the product of a different world and time. During the days when the USSR/Cuba relationship posed a real threat to the United States, it served a purpose. Today? Who knows why they keep it up. Zero, (I like your take on things) care to comment?

Politicians are very good at passing laws, but not so good at repealing them when their time is passed. Here's the latest update I could find regarding the tobacco issue:
http://www.treas.gov./offices/enforc...ba/ccigar2.pdf

Regards,
Rob

[The Mad Celt]

"Cuban Snus"

This would make an excellent court case. Originally the Cuban tobacco imported to Sweden would be subject to the embargo under the U.S. Treasury sanctions you referenced. If the Cuban tobacco were shipped directly to the U.S.A. without processing, then the sanctions would still apply;
through processing (production) of the Cuban tobacco into a uniquely Swedish product (snus), the Cuban tobacco becomes a wholly Swedish product. Third party transfer of embargoed goods is no longer the case (i.e. a box of Cuban cigars sent from part A in Sweden to party B in the U.S.A.). As to date, I will stand by this legal research. If a person has doubts, I certainly encourage them to contact the U.S. Customs office nearest them.
Lively debate brings about awareness and certainty. I look forward to it.

Peace and joy...The Mad Celt

P.S. Thank you for the kind comments on my snus blog.

[The Mad Celt]

Follow up to "Cuban Snus"

I will be contacting the U.S. Bureau of ATF tomorrow and posing direct questions as to the legality of importation of snus manufactured from Cuban tobacco...I will let you know what the outcome is. Until then...SnusOn!

[The Mad Celt]

ATF Answer on "Cuban" snus

Damn, damn, damn! I hate having to go back on my word...after talking at length with an agent at the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, I have been made to understand the issue. Tobacco from Cuba and products made from Cuban tobacco in another country (i.e. Monte Cristo, Romeo y Julieta, Taboca) are banned from importation to the U.S.A. It seems the real sticking point here is that Taboca Snus (the Swedish outfit that manufactures the brands referenced above) has significant business interests in Cuba (no shit); thus, the embargo is in full effect when it comes to "Cuban" snus, even if manufactured in Sweden. Damn. If you luck out with the various snus peddlers (as I have a couple of times), congratulations...but there is the risk U.S. Customs will seize not just the "Cuban" snus, but your whole damned order. If you just can't live without your "Cuban" snus, it's time to call your U.S. Senator and lobby against the embargo. SnusOn!

-The Mad Celt
"The Mad Celt's Snus Blog"
(http://madceltsnus.blogspot.com/)

[sagedil]

That makes sense. There is no way that Buysnus wouldn't ship it unless they and already checked all their duckies. I know a few people have gotten it, must be a software glitch occasionally.

I won't get into politics here, but our Cuba embargo has to be one of the most embarrassing things the US does. Makes absolutely no sense, and clearly, isn't gonna change a da** thing. So why bother?? The rest of the world just laughs at us.

[lxskllr]

Thanks for following up on that. That's some good information. It'll be a sweet day when we end the stupid embargo, and start trading with Cuba.

[RobME]

Well... I promised my impressions, and they're long overdue (sorry). I must've started & stopped writing this a half dozen times. I mean, what the hell can I add to what's already been written here? Just search this site for Montecristo or Romeo y Julieta (RyJ), and plenty of fair opinions and impressions will come up. Sometimes also, there's a great diversity of opinion here at SnusOn. It's part of the fun. Taken in a purely personal context there are no wrong opinions. We taste what we taste. Someone's gonna sample that 'green eggs & ham' snus, and get the flavor of it but someone else will say they taste peanut butter & jelly. I mean WTF? What's a snuser to do? (and the only thing to do is...) Sample it and see what you feel. (BTW, I don't taste any green apple in Grov either). But what do I know? Regarding these Cuban types...

My guess is that neither of these products has anything to do with the Cuban cigar brands of the same name. These names are licensed. They are two of the most famous Cuban cigars, and in marketing, branding is everything. The distributor, Taboca AS, chose its brand names wisely.

Here's the product description copied from the vendor site where I purchased mine:

Pouch snus made from Cuban tobacco and Norwegian water. The result is a product with a rich tobacco taste and fresh character of lemon and XXXXX, with a higher level of nicotine than most other snus products. Launched in 2008.

For Romeo y Julieta; substitute ANISEED for XXXXX
For Montecristo; substitute BERGAMOT for XXXXX

The analytical data for both is the same:
Water: ca 50 %
Nicotine: ca 11 mg/portion
Salt: ca 3 %

As you can see these snus are identical, the only difference being a single flavor ingredient in each. This imparts a slightly different taste to each and changes the perceived character of the finished product. They're both lightly salted, strong in nicotine delivery and (I think) strong in the taste of the tobacco, at least they start out that way.

I'm really digging both the Portion and Los so far, I've had a couple of each - all I can really taste is... fresh ground pepper. It's kinda one-dimensional - but very enjoyable despite the fact that I was hoping for more depth to the flavor.

That description's kind of what I get from the taste of Skruf Stark. With Skruf, it's not quite as peppery though, but pepper-like and not a great tobacco taste. In the case of the Cubans... that taste isn't from any seasoning or flavor additive/enhancement. The earthy, spicy, peppery notes are the taste of the tobacco itself! In this sense, I think Auggie's right. One dimensional, like a one-trick pony, but it's a helluva trick! I think this tobacco is wonderful and different tasting from the tobacco in any other snus I've tried. There's a distinctiveness to the taste that's just not present in other brands. That (to me) is what makes it outstanding.

There are other snus brands that profess to have a pure tobacco flavor and they do. But what flavor is that? Maybe I'm not so refined that I can tell. I can differentiate; strong from mild, rich tasting, or bitter, whether I like it or not, etc. Don't misunderstand me; I'm not questioning the quality of these other tobaccos, only their generally indistinguishable essense outside of the afore-mentioned qualities. In the case of Cuban tobacco, once you've become accustomed to the taste of it, there's no mistaking it for something else.

I'm not saying that what's in these is the best of what Cuba has to offer. It probably isn't. A cigar (for example) has greater complexity. Different tobacco is used for the filler, the binder and the wrapper. With snus any layered complexity is usually (IMO) a combination of the various 'flavorings', and the tobacconess, (usually but not always) subordinate to them. In the case of these two Cuban snus, a single tobacco flavor is predominant and the added flavoring 'tilts' the overall taste in one direction or another. At least, that's my take on it.

If you'd care to learn a bit more about Cuban tobacco and just what makes it so special, I've scanned two pages from "The Ultimate Cigar Book" 2nd edition by Richard Carleton Hacker. He's generally recognised as one of the worlds foremost authorities on cigars & tobacco. Here are the links:

http://blufront.no-ip.info/image/scan/cuba_tobac1.jpg
http://blufront.no-ip.info/image/scan/cuba_tobac2.jpg

The snus comes in cool metal cans with a thin rubberized outer coating and nice graphics, but they're ridiculously difficult to open. On the bright side, with the lids firmly closed they're probably waterproof. I haven't tested this but I'd bet if you fell into a pool or lake or off of a boat, this snus (packed as it is) would survive. Even if you drowned, whomever recovered your body could still enjoy this snus. The portions are in fluffy little pillows, not flat or underfilled.

Of the two, I prefer the RyJ. I think the aniseed melds better with the character of the tobacco. I don't much care for the bergamot in the Montecristo. To my palette it adds a bitterness that I just don't care for. I'm going to try and keep the Romeo y Julieta in stock and pass on the MC. I think it was a worthwhile endeavor pursuing the purchase of these, and to anyone as curious as I was, I would recommend trying one or the other out.

(just so you know), I'm a relative snus novice and my tastes are still developing and becoming more refined, but I know what I like. I could have the RyJ everyday, but not all day. It, like Onyx is a bit rich. For my own reasons (mostly dental related) good as los may be, I'll only do portions. For me, Nick & Johnny or Ettan are portions I could enjoy all day. The Romeo y Julieta like Onyx is an everyday treat but not an all day treat.

I didn't intend to post as much as this, but it's been an interesting trip. Snus has changed my life and after more than 30 years, I quit smoking a week ago. I have to give credit to the snus, and also to many of the success stories and encouraging posts that I read here at SnusOn. I feel obligated to give something back.

Regarding this post... any errors, ommisions, commissions, repetitive or other stupid shit, I take complete responsibility for. Regarding the Cuban brands... one or the other might suit your taste. Chainsnuser said it best...

Cuban tobacco is indeed special. Not that everybody has to like it.

Regards,
Rob

[Xobeloot]

Top notch my friend! Top notch! Excellent review.

[bakerbarber]

Great review.
I enjoy reading an unbiased opinion.
Congrats on knocking off the cigs. One day I might too.
I love the detail you put into your assessment.