fort hood shooting

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  • RRK
    Member
    • Sep 2009
    • 926

    #31
    I don't think we should condemn an entire religion either but this event is related to religion.

    Soldiers who witnessed the shooting rampage at Fort Hood that left 13 people dead reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before opening fire, the base commander said Friday.

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    • tom502
      Member
      • Feb 2009
      • 8985

      #32
      Islam is not a race, but I do believe Islam is very very messed up, and yes, not all Muslims are nuts, and some even acknowledge the problems in Islam, which is basically the allegiance to the Haditha and Sharia, which more than often goes against the Quran, yet Muslims generally speaking believe the Haditha and Sharia are needed and full a part of "true" Islam, most Muslims believe this, only a very few reject those, and then they are killed.

      Now I am hearing this guy was on a Jihad, and wrote things extolling Jihad and was yelling Allahu Akbar as he was shooting. Now if this is true, it should be acknowledged, and the PC powers should not just portray him as a troubled service man.

      I actually converted to Islam a while back, but I was still ignorant about it, and that story is slightly interesting, but I did not stick with it, the more I studied it, and saw how it is so messed up, and no one agrees on any aspect. But I did like the Quran Only teaching of Rashad Khalifa at submission.org he showed how Haditha and Sharia are anti-Islam, and showed how the Quran had been altered, and he was later killed.

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      • RRK
        Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 926

        #33
        I don't really want to be a member of any organized religion but I have enjoyed 3-4 books on sufism. Islam seems pretty close to the other Abrahamic religions to me.

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        • KarlvB
          Member
          • Feb 2008
          • 681

          #34
          Originally posted by tom502
          Now I am hearing this guy was on a Jihad, and wrote things extolling Jihad and was yelling Allahu Akbar as he was shooting. Now if this is true, it should be acknowledged, and the PC powers should not just portray him as a troubled service man.
          tom502, I agree with you that if this were the case it should be acknowledged. Selective denial does no one any good.

          However, having followed the story relatively closely I haven't seen any definite confirmation of him saying this either

          Survivors of the rampage that killed 13 and wounded 30 said the suspect, Major Nidal Malik Hasan, shouted "Allahu Akbar!" โ€” "God is great!" in Arabic โ€” before opening fire, base commander Lt. Gen. Robert Cone said. Cone said officials had not yet confirmed that Hasan, 39, made the comment.

          http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572448,00.html
          If he did in fact say it then I think it would be a great tragedy for two reasons - that someone's religious beliefs could lead them to commit such a crime, and the impact that this will have on relations between Muslim and non-Muslim servicemen.

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          • RRK
            Member
            • Sep 2009
            • 926

            #35
            In the morning, neighbors said Hasan handed Qurans and donated his furniture to anyone who would take it.

            Neighbors described Hasan as a quiet man who began wearing "Arabic clothing" in recent weeks. Edward Windsor, a neighbor, never suspected Hasan was in the Army. Hasan's rank surprised Windsor who would never have imagined an officer with a rank of major would have lived in an apartment that rents for $350 and houses soldiers ranked as private first class.

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            • sgreger1
              Member
              • Mar 2009
              • 9451

              #36
              @ VB @ everyone else


              Look i'm not on the hate all Muslim's bandwagon, but to deny what is going on in the world is not fair. PC has gone too far.

              This is a tragedy no matter how you see it, and it oculd have just been a soldier goign crazy... but there are just so many things that point to this being religion related:

              People at the site claim he was saying allah akbar (s/p)
              He was becoming increasingly vocal about his discontent for soldier killing muslims in the wars
              The morning of the incident he was handing out Korans

              He had been in trouble before and was accused of using his counseling job to proslytize about Islam.



              I mean, i'm sorry I hate to sound racist but you can't jsut close your eyes to what's going on.

              And what about the time in Kuwait where a muslim on post threw a grenade into a tent and killed all those people?



              Not that islam is the only one who does terrible things, but there seems to be a trend. So I think that it would be ignorant to automaticly give everyone whos muslim a pass.


              If this was some suburban white kid his race would be talked about more in the mainstream media.




              At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.

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              • tom502
                Member
                • Feb 2009
                • 8985

                #37
                I know I am just being picky, but Islam is not a race, so being critical of extremist Islam is not racist. Islam has many blacks, black Africans, Asians, Persians, Arabians, Indians, and whites, and all have joined ranks of the radical segment.

                Now, we know(I think) all Muslims do not agree with fanaticism, but in todays world, we also can't bury our head in the PC sand and not realize that Islam is holding a special place in world terrorist fanaticism. Islam generally speaking, has become a world problem.

                Islam is very different than anything else, because it's like a worldview, theo-political, and has a very large segment that encourages and supports terrorist activities, and a larger segment that has a silent approval of them.

                I don't want to blanket all Muslims, as I am sure, like Christians, many are born Muslim, would say they are Muslim, but do not strictly follow it, and do not approve of radicalness.

                But we do have a national problem, and being scared to address the problem will only make it worse, I think.

                That said, I don't know the answer.

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                • sgreger1
                  Member
                  • Mar 2009
                  • 9451

                  #38
                  Yah it's not a race but saying "religionist" doesn't hit the spot quite right



                  I have friends back in LA who are muslim, but are like most christians in the sense that they are only Muslim in name, don't really practice that closely.

                  Most moderate muslims are like anyone else, but Tom, I have to agree, we cannot look past the fact that there seems to be a trend that whenever something terrorist related happens, at least 8 times out of 10 it seems ot be a muslim fanatic. The shooter here had already raised a flag in the past for posting stuff on the itnernet about how muslims terrorists are freedom fighters and no different than a US soldier jumping on a grenade to save the rest.

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                  • tom502
                    Member
                    • Feb 2009
                    • 8985

                    #39
                    It's kinda like not all Italians are Mafia, but all Mafia are Italian. It may not be 100% accurate, but with terrorism, it's always almost always Muslims. No other group compares. Christians don't blow themselves up on a crowded bus yelling "Praise Jesus!". There are radical anti abortionists, but they pick their specific target, the dr, the center, not a crowded mall.

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                    • Roo
                      Member
                      • Jun 2008
                      • 3446

                      #40
                      KarlvB is right on. We are so sheltered from the Muslim world that virtually the only context it's put into here is that of extremism and terrorism. What I'm saying has nothing to do with being "PC". Over a quarter of the earth's population is Muslim. Have either of you been to a Muslim country that we weren't at war with? It's not very scary at all. They don't bite.

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                      • texasmade
                        Member
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 4159

                        #41
                        religion related or not i say hook his ass up to shock treatment turn it up and leave him strapped to a metal frame till we feel like checking on him

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                        • sgreger1
                          Member
                          • Mar 2009
                          • 9451

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Roo
                          KarlvB is right on. We are so sheltered from the Muslim world that virtually the only context it's put into here is that of extremism and terrorism. What I'm saying has nothing to do with being "PC". Over a quarter of the earth's population is Muslim. Have either of you been to a Muslim country that we weren't at war with? It's not very scary at all. They don't bite.

                          Roo I don't think anyone means to imply that Muslims or predominantly Muslim countries are bad people/places. Just noting that it seems that muslims hold a large amount of marketshare when it comes to terrorism.

                          I think people were just upset because initially they retracted his name and religious affiliation to be PC about it. No one should get a free pass whena tragedy like this occurs.



                          EDIT: When I was in the army I decided to read up on the enemy and came across an excelent book called something along the lines of "Middle east, the last 2,000 years" that expained everything about the region and touched a bit on islam. Ironicly, I found that I believe more in some muslim concepts than christian ones!! They believe there is only 1 god, and don't pray ot three dietys like the christians, and treated mohamad as a prophet, not as a son of God like the christians did with Jesus.


                          But none the less, even my very moderate muslim friends do admit that a big part of the teachings of the prophet is converting those, and killing those who will not convert. Luckily, only a fringe group of muslims (albeit a large amount) subscribe to this interpretation of Mohamad's teachings.


                          (I know my spelling is ****ed up, sue me.)

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                          • sgreger1
                            Member
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 9451

                            #43
                            The woman who shot him and stopped his rampage was an off-duty police officer.

                            Once again proving liberals wrong 9in their assumption that strict gun control is a good thing. This citizen was carrying a concealed weapon and was able to stop this before it turned into something bigger.


                            My question for the soldiers there is this:

                            Anyone here who has ever been in the army, you know how they pack you into the place like sardines whenever your getting your shots/exams, how did this guy manage to off so many people?

                            Think about it: He had 2 handguns, shot 43 people at least one time. That had to have involved at LEAST one reload, how come no one tackled this ****? Instead he reloaded and went back to the killing spree.



                            The point: I think forensics will end up showing that at least some of these people got accidentally caught in the crossfire when the female police officer was shooting the bad guy. But still, i think she did the right thing.

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                            • Redbeard
                              Member
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 390

                              #44
                              First, it wasn't all that long ago that Catholics and Potestants, both Christian, were blowing each other up in Norhern Ireland. To imply that terrorism is dominated by Islam may be a bit misleading. Anyone remember Timothy McVeigh?


                              Second, sgreger, is it not possible, or perhaps even probable given that the crowd was rather densely packed, that more than one soldier may have been hit with the same bullet? For instance, the first guy gets grazed on the arm by the same bullet that caught the guy behind him in the chest. Maybe someone here is more familiar with forensic ballistics and can educate me.

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                              • sgreger1
                                Member
                                • Mar 2009
                                • 9451

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Redbeard
                                First, it wasn't all that long ago that Catholics and Potestants, both Christian, were blowing each other up in Norhern Ireland. To imply that terrorism is dominated by Islam may be a bit misleading. Anyone remember Timothy McVeigh?


                                Second, sgreger, is it not possible, or perhaps even plausible given that the crowd was rather densely packed, that more than one soldier may have been hit with the same bullet? For instance, the first guy gets grazed on the arm by the same bullet that caught the guy behind him in the chest. Maybe someone here is more familiar with forensic ballistics and can educate me.

                                These things are incredibly packed because of the high volume of soldiers they have to process at one time, usually a whole battalion. Ricochetes absolutely had to have played a role in this, but still the number is really high, I think he probably had to reload at least once. Since it took for an off duty police officer to show up on the scene, I imagine this whole thing lasted at least a couple of minutes = at least one reload. Someone should have jumped him.



                                Also, yes christians and others have also been involved in terror attack in the past. This is why I said that in modern day times, 8 out of 10 of terrorists are muslim. To say that muslims are not the majority of those commiting terror acts around the world is just plain wrong. However, they are not 100%, more like 99.

                                But no one gets a pass, muslim or not. I hope this guy lives so we can kill him again

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