Federal Judge: ObamaCare Unconstitutional

[devilock76]

And my numbers obviously should eb taken for what they are, something I spent 5 minutes creating for an internet forum post. But the point remains the same, almost everyone is covered, we have a few straglers, so what do we do with them? First, we have to ask "Why are they stragglers?". Turn out the answer to that question is that most of the stragglers either make enough money to afford coverage but chose not to purchase it, are too poor to afford coverage but have failed to opt-in to existing government programs for which they are eligible, or they are illegal aliens.

The amount of people who legitimately cannot buy insurance then amounts to pretty much just those with pre-existing conditions. Recently many states lauched the first phase of ObamaCare, which allows people with pre-existing conditions to sign up for insurance. But guess what? Almost none of them did, and the program goes largely un-utilized.



My point is that we are throwing away the whole system just to deal with the last few stragglers. I do not believe that is the best plan of action. If we were to scrap the whole system for the purpose of covering everyone, than I don't see why we don't just go balls deep and try out socialized health care.

It's not that I disagree with you, I just like seeing people I agree with use arguments that have no room to be refuted. It makes it easier for me too.

Ken

[sgreger1]

It's not that I disagree with you, I just like seeing people I agree with use arguments that have no room to be refuted. It makes it easier for me too.

Ken

I mean you can refute individual numbers, but the overall breakdown of the numbers is accurate. We are trying to figure out how to cover the last 10% of Americans. Regardless of how you look at the numbers, that 10% is uninsured because they want to be, or because they are illigals. So the question is: Should we spend a trillion dollars to cover them? And not even cover them actually, we are spending $1 trillion just to force them to buy insurance so that Obama can claim he brought universal coverage.

[devilock76]

I mean you can refute individual numbers, but the overall breakdown of the numbers is accurate. We are trying to figure out how to cover the last 10% of Americans. Regardless of how you look at the numbers, that 10% is uninsured because they want to be, or because they are illigals. So the question is: Should we spend a trillion dollars to cover them? And not even cover them actually, we are spending $1 trillion just to force them to buy insurance so that Obama can claim he brought universal coverage.

I don't feel like going back over it, it was not the accuracy of the numbers but the way you combined certain sets. I don't want to mire the point though by hashing through that.

You know I get back to my support of the fair tax system, a solution that I can see where even illegals paid under the table end up paying taxes. Real simple.

As for the uninsured, maybe they shouldn't need to apply, why not make it that for all non-life threatening situations valid ID and a SSN or Immigrant Visa or green card number is required for check in. People have proof of insurance provide it as well, if they don't have that their information is submitted to the fed to approve or deny assisted coverage. Life threatening situations need to be handled differently of course as no hospital should deny that.

Now to those who might say what about illegals. I really want to eliminate the illegal problem in our country. How? BY making it easier for non-felons to enter in a legitimate and recordable manner. Why? Because I would rather we focus our immigration enforcement on criminals? And the overall reason is to take the slave trade incentive out of many illegal border crossings. The only other acceptable option to that is to just build an impenetrable wall, and that is not logistically feasible.

Ken

[sgreger1]

I don't feel like going back over it, it was not the accuracy of the numbers but the way you combined certain sets. I don't want to mire the point though by hashing through that.

You know I get back to my support of the fair tax system, a solution that I can see where even illegals paid under the table end up paying taxes. Real simple.

As for the uninsured, maybe they shouldn't need to apply, why not make it that for all non-life threatening situations valid ID and a SSN or Immigrant Visa or green card number is required for check in. People have proof of insurance provide it as well, if they don't have that their information is submitted to the fed to approve or deny assisted coverage. Life threatening situations need to be handled differently of course as no hospital should deny that.

Now to those who might say what about illegals. I really want to eliminate the illegal problem in our country. How? BY making it easier for non-felons to enter in a legitimate and recordable manner. Why? Because I would rather we focus our immigration enforcement on criminals? And the overall reason is to take the slave trade incentive out of many illegal border crossings. The only other acceptable option to that is to just build an impenetrable wall, and that is not logistically feasible.

Ken

All the laraza groups will scream a fit if you asked for green cards before they could go to the Dr. They won't even allow us to ask for green cards to vote, and they don't deport criminals who we know are illegals.


I agree though, if your not a criminal I don't see why you shouldn't be able to come here. That way we can focus on kicking out all of the bad apples.

[devilock76]

All the laraza groups will scream a fit if you asked for green cards before they could go to the Dr. They won't even allow us to ask for green cards to vote, and they don't deport criminals who we know are illegals.


I agree though, if your not a criminal I don't see why you shouldn't be able to come here. That way we can focus on kicking out all of the bad apples.

If other countries and their respective groups in our country will not work with us to keep their criminals out of our country then we will starting with maximum security federal pens offer the convicts a choice, stay here your full sentence, or be sent to country XXX where you will remain free to do whatever you can. If we find you back in the united states again it will be the death penalty, no appeals no trial, nothing. And to those who would point to my anti death penalty statements, well this is an extreme and will never happen scenario, to make a point, so have some suspension of disbelief.

Ken

[GoVegan]

Also, that choice has nothing to do with the system. That is life. Before hospitals and insurance, the only choice was death. Consider ruining your finances an upgrade from what people had to deal with for the last 200,000 years.

Baby steps.

Your nuts! I used to have a neighbor that worked as a contractor until he developed some type of cancer and was stuck with over $150,000 in unpaid medical bills. He will never recover from that amount and he believed he stopped working altogether because of this. Its one thing to owe a few grand which you can normally pay off over a few years but medical bills are something way different. My brother took his wife to the hospital and spent $3500.00 for a diagnosis of high blood pressure which took them about 20 minutes to figure out. They wouldn't work with him at all on the bill and they ending up taking him to court and taking over his bank account. His total bill is now over 5k with the legal fees they tacked on. You have very little control over what doctors charge and most of them don't even know themselves. Just try and call a doctor and ask them what a normal office visit will cost. They will give you some range like $75.00 to $300.00. This is before any lab work or test fees that might be required. Going without medical insurance is akin to driving without auto insurance and running into 3 Ferrari's owned by lawyers on the way home from work.