Federal Judge: ObamaCare Unconstitutional

[sgreger1]

The individual mandate, requiring that everyone buy insurance as a basic requirement of living in America, has been ruled unconstitutional by a Federal judge. Says forcing Americans to buy a product from private corporations just because they exist violates congress's powers to regulate interstate commerce. Next stop, the supreme court.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...-by-judge.html



The Obama administration’s requirement that most citizens maintain minimum health coverage as part of a broad overhaul of the industry is unconstitutional, a federal judge ruled, striking down the linchpin of the plan.


U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson in Richmond, Virginia, said today that the requirement in President Barack Obama’s health-care legislation goes beyond Congress’s powers to regulate interstate commerce.



“exceeds the constitutional boundaries of congressional power.”


The ruling is the government’s first loss in a series of challenges to the law mounted in federal courts in Virginia, Michigan and Florida, where 20 states have joined an effort to have the statute thrown out. Constitutional scholars said unless Congress changes the law, its fate on appeal will probably hinge on the views of the U.S. Supreme Court’s more conservative members.






JudgeFaust, was not immediately available for comment.

[raptor]

I'm not against universal health care but I'm kinda glad this is failing. It was really a big win for insurance companies.

[tom502]

It's like the Sopranos forcing you to pay for protection.

[devilock76]

I'm not against universal health care but I'm kinda glad this is failing. It was really a big win for insurance companies.

Like anyone could see the day that plan went into action, the politicians were touting how this would reign in the insurance companies and their profits, yet the same day their stocks soared, as did the pharmaceutical companies. Why? The got guaranteed millions of new customers, forced customers, in the coming years.

Ken

[raptor]

I really really hate the name "obamacare". It's not something strictly from Obama or his party. The blame for it should lie on both parties who had to compromise from the original bill's intentions (which I think were expanding Medicare/caid or perhaps the public option which was thrown out pretty quickly).

What happens now is a year later every change will be undone, for better or for worse. Healthcare is still going to be super expensive, and the working poor won't be able to afford for it. And there's a lot of idiots on forums who honestly believe healthcare should have a minimum income limit because of "bootstrap" incentives/not a guaranteed right, etc.

[sgreger1]

I'm not against universal health care but I'm kinda glad this is failing. It was really a big win for insurance companies.

That's pretty much how I feel. The way I see it, they never planned for socialized care, they just pretended to want it. All this was was just a business deal with big insurance and Pharma.

The dems had control of the ball, but they instead chose to use all republican ideas, such as individual mandate, which republicans invented. In fact, mccains campaign Said he would favor an individual mandate, but Obama said it was unconstitutional. Then Obama and the dems decided individual mandate was the way to go. Turns out Obama was right, it is unconstitutional.



Obamacare is a legit name, as he personally takes responsibility for it and constantly claims it is this great reform that he brought us. He has to own it now.



Edit: health insurance is not a right. Period. To say so is to knowingly contradict the universe. There is no inherent right to health insurance. It is,however, something that we should be able to afford everyone access to basic medical care. It's not about giving people basic rights, we are past that. This is about caring for the general well being of our citizens, which I believe is a noble cause for us to undertake as a nation.

[devilock76]

I really really hate the name "obamacare". It's not something strictly from Obama or his party. The blame for it should lie on both parties who had to compromise from the original bill's intentions (which I think were expanding Medicare/caid or perhaps the public option which was thrown out pretty quickly).

What happens now is a year later every change will be undone, for better or for worse. Healthcare is still going to be super expensive, and the working poor won't be able to afford for it. And there's a lot of idiots on forums who honestly believe healthcare should have a minimum income limit because of "bootstrap" incentives/not a guaranteed right, etc.

I am very torn on this issue. There are countries that do well with socialized medecine, but I fear it will stifle innovation. Also in some ways our health care here in this country is force socialized. The downward spiral I have seen goes like this:

1. Person goes to hospital, cannot pay, no insurance.

2. Hospital seeing a loss from person who cannot pay, raises rates for procedures and services so that those with insurance who can pay offset the losses from those who can't.

3. Insurance sees the rising cost of coverage, raises rates.

4. People who could just afford coverage now cannot and drop their insurance.

5. These people who now drop their coverage get hurt or sick

(return to item 1, rinse repeat)

So now we have an industry socializing medicine, and it is not working either.

My feeling has been that we don't have health care in this country, we have sick care. Too many people just don't take care of themselves and overall it is a problem.

Ken

[raptor]

I don't know how Obama has any supporters when he:

- sold out his platform due to hardline right wingers refusing to budge on anything
- done some pretty horrific things like OK'ing targeted killing, eroding civil rights, continuing Bush-era mistakes
- sucks on Bibi's dick and likes it, and generally being ineffective in peaceful mediation in the Middle East

I guess it's just the name and his party. Everyone should be upset, both right wingers and ultra leftists.

[truthwolf1]

I hope everything is undone- so they can get to the real problem of the cost of Healthcare in America.

Another typical example. Went to doctor last week and had prescription sent to Walgreens. Lady asked if I had a drug coverage I said no and she said $80 bucks. I was about to pay when she said, wait a minute and grabbed the same drug off the shelf priced at $12.99.

There is a fleecing going on and it is completely ignored from both parties!

[raptor]

I am very torn on this issue. There are countries that do well with socialized medecine, but I fear it will stifle innovation. Also in some ways our health care here in this country is force socialized. The downward spiral I have seen goes like this:

1. Person goes to hospital, cannot pay, no insurance.

2. Hospital seeing a loss from person who cannot pay, raises rates for procedures and services so that those with insurance who can pay offset the losses from those who can't.

3. Insurance sees the rising cost of coverage, raises rates.

4. People who could just afford coverage now cannot and drop their insurance.

5. These people who now drop their coverage get hurt or sick

(return to item 1, rinse repeat)

So now we have an industry socializing medicine, and it is not working either.

My feeling has been that we don't have health care in this country, we have sick care. Too many people just don't take care of themselves and overall it is a problem.

Ken

I agree that European models won't necessarily work for the US. Because we waited 50 years until this became a big problem there will be a lot of pains and sacrifices (which Americans are not used to). It will require a good amount of government control as I think the entire pharmaceutical industry will need fixing (no more marketing of medicines which drives costs up) as well as required income shifts for doctors and CEOs.

I don't think we should discuss cost-effectiveness or necessity at this moment; it's been debated to death here and elsewhere and we really won't know the true implications of a full social medicine system until one is executed. But I will say that as a first world nation we should be measured by how we treat our poor, and healthcare should be available to anyone who needs it. That will be something to add to the list of reasons why we are proud to be Americans.

[sgreger1]

I agree that European models won't necessarily work for the US. Because we waited 50 years until this became a big problem there will be a lot of pains and sacrifices (which Americans are not used to). It will require a good amount of government control as I think the entire pharmaceutical industry will need fixing (no more marketing of medicines which drives costs up) as well as required income shifts for doctors and CEOs.

I don't think we should discuss cost-effectiveness or necessity at this moment; it's been debated to death here and elsewhere and we really won't know the true implications of a full social medicine system until one is executed. But I will say that as a first world nation we should be measured by how we treat our poor, and healthcare should be available to anyone who needs it. That will be something to add to the list of reasons why we are proud to be Americans.

I don't believe fully socialized medicine would be a good fit here, at least not the version some other countries subscribe to. I think the Swiss (or is it swedish?) model would work best. They didn't do away with private enterprise like full socialized care does. They mandate that everyone has to buy coverage, but the insurance companies are forced to sell a basic package at 0 profit. This way, everyone can afford the basic cable version at an extremely affordable price. Then, the insurance companies can make a profit by selling "better" (cadillac) health care to those who would like to buy more.


Everyone gets something, and if your wealthy you can afford the best treatment, the best Dr's, and the shortest waiting period. The reality is that everyone cannot always have GREAT healthcare or short wait times, but in this system we can afford everyone basic care, and those who can afford better can buy better (oh, and the insurance companies don't go out of business overnight). I think this model would work best in America.

[raptor]

Yeah, that was the discussion we had last time, about the Swiss system. I think that would be something worth trying...

[devilock76]

I have this theory that we should discount emergency and extreme care to those who take preventative measures. I mean if you are a person who stays fit and gets a regular physical to keep up on your conditions and health, you should get a discount when and if big procedures come up. It would be an incentive to health, and you could see the profit from people investing in that offsetting the lost profit on the now discounted major procedures.

It would be a tough one to implement but I think it could have merit. Obviously in combination with other ideas.

Ken

[lxskllr]

I hope everything is undone- so they can get to the real problem of the cost of Healthcare in America.

Another typical example. Went to doctor last week and had prescription sent to Walgreens. Lady asked if I had a drug coverage I said no and she said $80 bucks. I was about to pay when she said, wait a minute and grabbed the same drug off the shelf priced at $12.99.

There is a fleecing going on and it is completely ignored from both parties!

^^^

I can get diabetes test strips from WalMart for $20, Walgreens for $35, and big name brand for $70. I don't expect everyone to sell at WalMart's prices, but double the drugstore brand's prices is just pure rape because they can. They have a captive audience. You can't decide you're just not gonna check your sugar anymore. They give doctors their electronic units to give to patients, knowing many of those patients won't research alternatives, or don't have other options.

[truthwolf1]

^^^

I can get diabetes test strips from WalMart for $20, Walgreens for $35, and big name brand for $70. I don't expect everyone to sell at WalMart's prices, but double the drugstore brand's prices is just pure rape because they can. They have a captive audience. You can't decide you're just not gonna check your sugar anymore. They give doctors their electronic units to give to patients, knowing many of those patients won't research alternatives, or don't have other options.

Take that thought to the larger scale. It is now normal to order pills from India, get body parts from China and fly to Mexico for triple bypass surgery.