Swedish Match pushes into the US market this summer...two new varieties

[lxskllr]

I don't think snus has to be an epic win to be a win. It's gonna take patience and persistence to see the pay off. That pay off won't be like the oil barons of the last century, but more like the organic/natural food movement of this century. It's not exactly dominating the market, but it's very present, and doing well.

[Ephemeris]

You say "my fellow Americans prefer something that tastes like sweet dookie", but they don't necessarily prefer it but it's more that they just don't know any better.

I have to disagree with you there, Rick. Every single person in the last six years that I've tried to get to use Swedish snus spits it out immediately (not counting dippers, who seem at least willing to give it a chance). I don't know how many people exactly I've tried to get to snus, but it's probably approaching 4-digit figure territory.

But give them a Camel or Marlboro candy snus with barely any nicotine and they go apeshit. "Wow, this tastes great!" It's not just my personal opinion. Swedish Match just spent four years and several million dollars worth of market testing and focus group research to arrive at the same conclusion.

Now, do I think that this is always going to be the case? No. I'm just worried about how long it will take. Swedish snus is an acquired taste, like wine or liquor or beer. The only difference is that wine and liquor have been around for thousands of years, so we're culturally aware of the fact that we have to learn to enjoy it. Modern Swedish snus has been in this country for like, five minutes. There's no cultural association, no history or mass awareness of it. RJR and PM don't want to wait for Americans to discover the "original pursuit"- they want someone to buy their product and like it immediately. In that, they have succeeded. (Very well in fact, according to the sales charts).

So I view the work that we do in trying to raise as much public awareness about snus as possible as the groundwork for things to come. Do I think that snus will ever be as popular in the US as it is in Sweden? No. Do I think that snus will eventually become as big a market as moist snuff and cigarettes? Not quite- but I think it will severely cut into the marketshare of those two categories; but probably not in our lifetime. I'm hoping that our grandchildren look back at our struggle for snus in this country and find it hard to fathom a time when Swedish snus was so scarce. In fact, I'm hoping that there won't be Swedish snus (or at least, the need to differentiate between American and Swedish snus)- I'm hoping that American and Swedish snus is one and the same.

But I have to agree with Darwin about snus always being a niche product. Going back to what someone said about Copenhagen being the best-selling dip brand: that's correct, but Copenhagen is still a niche product, even in the dip market. Copenhagen completely dominates the natural/straight flavored dip category. But that category is less than a quarter of the total dip market. 77% of all dippers and snusers in American are buying flavored (mint/wg and fruit) smokeless tobacco, and it's spread out among all the different brands. That's why Cope just came out with a wintergreen flavor- Altria wants to take Copenhagen's brand status and hopefully gain control of the flavored dip market like they do the non-flavored market. But I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

This gets back to what I was saying earlier- we're like, the tiniest niche in the tobacco world right now. American users of Swedish snus make up 0.03 percent of the tobacco users in this country. I think a realistic goal in our lifetime could reach anywhere between 3-5% of the marketplace, but I think it's being overly optimistic to think that we'll ever reach past that in the next twenty years.

And I don't see this as a bad thing either. The smaller the market, the more potential for one or two brands completely coming to dominate the category. And with guys like Rick going out there (literally) knocking on people's door and educating them about snus, I see no reason why the brands he distributes won't one day be the best-selling snus in this country; especially since Swedish Match, with all their money and experience, have lost so much ground already by trying to be overly cautious and dip their toes in the water. While they're sitting back trying to read the crystal ball, Northerner swooped in and started getting into a lot of brick and mortar stores.

And that's going to hurt General when the SM guys show up down the road with their giant coolers and passionless, cigar-driven strategies. These retailers are not going to say "Oh, you have Thunder and Jakobssons snus- is it like General?" They're going to be saying to Swedish Match, "Oh, you have General. Is it like Jakobssons and Thunder?" Stores are going to associate "real" snus with Northerner and not Swedish Match, which is really sad on SM's part.

So even though it's a tiny market right now, it's still got the potential to make the right company or companies a lot of money. And like Rick said, it all comes down to education and enthusiasm, two qualities that the North American SM reps have not instilled in their retailers. But you'll never be able to convince me that a majority of Americans want Swedish snus over Camel. That's like saying a majority of Americans want premium beer. 98.7% of Americans want Miller, Coors or Budweiser. Sure, craft beer is "real" beer and it's "better" and it's the "original" and "premium" choice for beer drinkers, but nobody's buying it (when you look at the market as a whole).

Swedish snus is craft beer. Better, harder to find, viewed by aficionados as superior in every way to mass-produced beer- but Americans will never give up their Budweiser (Camel) or Coors Light (Marlboro). They've been presented with the choice, and they voted with their wallets.

[chadizzy1]

Not everyone is gonna do enough research/join a forum to find out what it's all about.

I will say this, and it's a trend I've noticed. I track the stats on my website on a regular basis - I like to see what people are interested in and what people read. Surprisingly, for a blog/website about Swedish Snus you know what my top viewed articles are? (and this is consistently). Camel/Skoal/Marlboro snus. And not by a small number but by HUNDREDS of views a day. People are trying this stuff and taking to the internet to find out what it's about. In fact, in every article I write about American snus I added a disclaimer at the top and a link to another article I did about Swedish Snus vs American Snus, to kind of use that momentum. So, lots of people are checking out this American stuff and taking to the internet to find out what it's about (I'm sure Feck, Larry, Anthony - any of the other guys with blogs would probably mention similar stats about their articles, last time I checked Larry's article about Camel Snus is still the most viewed snus article online, it's the first one I found when I tried Camel Snus and how I found out about Swedish Snus) and see if there's other varieties out there.

I think awareness will grow, smoking bans will increase, and people will continue to seek alternatives. Cigarettes sales will fall, smokeless sales will increase, and snus will continue to grow. This won't happen overnight, or even in the coming years, but I predict within the next 10 years we'll see a significant growth in the smokeless category, particularly snus.

[GN Tobacco Sweden AB]

I need Samuel L. Jacksons tel number can some one help me or Martin Scorsceses

[TheJanitor]

[EricHill78]

SM is like the mafia I believe.. this clip was based on one ot SMs meetings.. Joe Pesci is SM..

[GN Tobacco Sweden AB]

amagine new movie with Samuel L. Jackson and he uses only Swedish snus upper lip HAHAHAH then a couple of years you can take away from 20 years and life time thoughts

[rickcharles606]

So even though it's a tiny market right now, it's still got the potential to make the right company or companies a lot of money. And like Rick said, it all comes down to education and enthusiasm, two qualities that the North American SM reps have not instilled in their retailers. But you'll never be able to convince me that a majority of Americans want Swedish snus over Camel. That's like saying a majority of Americans want premium beer. 98.7% of Americans want Miller, Coors or Budweiser. Sure, craft beer is "real" beer and it's "better" and it's the "original" and "premium" choice for beer drinkers, but nobody's buying it (when you look at the market as a whole).

Swedish snus is craft beer. Better, harder to find, viewed by aficionados as superior in every way to mass-produced beer- but Americans will never give up their Budweiser (Camel) or Coors Light (Marlboro). They've been presented with the choice, and they voted with their wallets.

I agree that real Swedish snus is fighting to just qualify as a niche product in the US smokeless market right now, and that we're a mere fraction of the market. Look, I'm a realist too, I understand that we're not going to 'replace' dip and that at best we'll have a percentage of the smokeless market. Most of the trending that I've heard at the show seminars says that by 2016 snus will be a real player in the category, so we know it won't happen overnight. I agree with your assesment that we're laying the groundwork, but we'll see real results a lot sooner than you think.

Regarding people choosing Swedish snus over RJR's offering, I've had literally hundreds of people walk up to me at tobacco shows,and show me a can of RJR's smokeless stuff and say "I've been using this to cut down on smoking lately". Then when I hand them a can of Jak's Mint Strong or Thunder Frosted to try, they are amazed at the difference. Am I saying that some people's initial reaction to real snus isn't negative...nope, and those people fall into your category of people that have to learn to appreciate the product like a fine wine. I'm in a unique position to see the results happen guys, and it's fun to watch people make the switch. However, I too have had failures in getting people I know to try snus. Oddly enough, I have far better results with people that I don't know. So, we'll agree to disagree on this point, even if I agree with 98% of what you're saying ;-)

Using your analogy of craft beer (swedish snus) and mass produced beer (RJR & PM). If Budweiser and Coors didn't have enough alcohol to offer the 'desired' effect that the user wanted to attain, then I'd say the success rate of switching people to a craft beer would be much higher. Especially if the craft beer had more than enough alcohol to meet the consumer's needs, lol. Not to mention the fact that the 'craft beer' is less expensive per ounce (portion)....seems like a no brainer to me. Again, it comes down to explaining the differences to the people selling the beer. Then they will in turn teach their customers and the customers will teach their friends...and we'll all get drunk together ;-)

@Darwin...who was that retailer we tried to get on board and where are you located again....PM me. I'll try to find that message chain we exchanged too.

[whalen]

Nice write up in the Wall street Friday edition.

[sirloot]

Im i the only one that think Nick and Johnny is ready made market for Americans ? I know Onyx appeals to all you Closet Goths :P *dont cut yer wrists ill mention you too* and ladies/gentlemen that smoke but are stuck in hospitals Catch collection .. very discreet im not even a marketeer and i would use those angles.. its it realy that much of a niche market ?


Makes me Appreciate Northerner they are doing in the US what even Swedish match reps themselves.... either (a) aren't attempting to do? (b) have been told not to? (c) other???

[chadizzy1]

Im i the only one that think Nick and Johnny is ready made market for Americans ? I know Onyx appeals to all you Closet Goths :P *dont cut yer wrists ill mention you too*

I always thought that. The taste, the can, the name, everything tells me it could sell in America. I wish it would.

[c.nash]

This is an interesting thread.
Honestly... I'm interested in trying the new stuff... BUT, more expensive for less product, less nicotine... SUCKS...

Everyone that I have met that has tried SWEDISH snus, who was a dip user or a camel/marlboro/skoal snus user LOVED swedish snus.
The only problem I have ran into is trying to convert smokers.. :/

[Mawdryn]

So are we to assume these new products are completely intended for smokers who can't smoke, like Camel, Marlboro, Skoal etc? In that case, seems to me General Mint and Mini Mint would be complete win. No modifications, just throw it out there. Anytime I'm with smokers in a place they can't smoke, they always ask me if I have any of those "minty ones". Of course, I haven't used Mint in forever, and all I have is something Los. Sometimes I do have Nick & Johnny Strong portions. Hate to hurt everybody's feelings, but they NEVER like it.

If SM wanted to go after dippers, Grov los seems ready made. It's been a long time since I've had Cope Snuff, but it seems pretty darn close, minus the slightly chemical taste of Cope and the rotting bottom lip...

[Ephemeris]

So are we to assume these new products are completely intended for smokers who can't smoke, like Camel, Marlboro, Skoal etc? In that case, seems to me General Mint and Mini Mint would be complete win. No modifications, just throw it out there. Anytime I'm with smokers in a place they can't smoke, they always ask me if I have any of those "minty ones". Of course, I haven't used Mint in forever, and all I have is something Los. Sometimes I do have Nick & Johnny Strong portions. Hate to hurt everybody's feelings, but they NEVER like it.

No, Swedish Match didn't come right out and say it, but they hinted strongly that it's not going to be a "use it when you can't smoke" casual product like the cigarette companies are putting out. They're not saying either way, but I believe they want smokers to completely switch over to snus. They are bound by legalities and FDA stipulations from stating too explicit an agenda.

[Mawdryn]

No, Swedish Match didn't come right out and say it, but they hinted strongly that it's not going to be a "use it when you can't smoke" casual product like the cigarette companies are putting out. They're not saying either way, but I believe they want smokers to completely switch over to snus. They are bound by legalities and FDA stipulations from stating too explicit an agenda.

Gotcha...