Swedish Match pushes into the US market this summer...two new varieties

[rllksxl]

Who else will be STUNNED if this works for SM? I just don't see it happening, but I hope I'm wrong...

I think it can work if they have the patience to ride it out. Unfortunately, patience doesn't seem to be SM's forte.

[Mawdryn]

WHY THE ****! WHY IS THERE LESS NICOTINE IN THEM!!!! For crying out loud you can reduce the amount later or introduce a mini portion later but that IS THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH CAMEL, MARLBORO, and SKOAL is the lack of nicotine which MAKES THEM SEEM LIKE A RIP OFF!

Edit: Even the kid we all made fun of was worth the 50 dollars if they'd listen to him, he said the main problem was they were weak, also I'm talking like 9-11 mg/s you don't need to make it thunder or odens level.

Agreed...15 portions, 7mg...FAIL

[Mawdryn]

I think it can work if they have the patience to ride it out. Unfortunately, patience doesn't seem to be SM's forte.

Man this RollickSucksl guy really seems to know his stuff...sharpest Freshman Snuser on Snuson...

[Ephemeris]

Well! According to Rick, General or any swedish snus for that matter does not need to be refrigerated as it's that Swedish Match brain washing and that pasteurized snus doesn't need to be refrigerated and will retain it's moisture for 4-6 months not refrigerated and will not go bad ( get dried out ) ( Loose flavor ) Etc , So shelf life here in the USA or in your home should not be an issue... It's all a fallacy and sales gimick that any snus needs to be stable by being refrigerated.... But it is a good Idea to keep it refrigerated or even freeze it if your not going to use it within 4-6 months.... All per Rick.... So it begs the question... Why are we all keeping our snus in the fridge If this is just a sales gimick? Hmmm have we all been brain wahed into beleiving our snus needs to be in the fridge?

We had a long discussion on this as well. Swedish Match (Europe and US) are genuinely horrified that some companies are saying that snus doesn't need to be refrigerated. According to Elliot Eliades (Director of New Products at SM NA): "I can't speak for the other guys, but our snus needs to be refrigerated. The bacterial growth and freshness and quality issues that arise from sitting out at room temperature for several months may not bother some of these guys, but for Swedish Match, there's no way we're going to sell product like that to our customers."

I was skeptical of this for years. I've always figured that keeping snus in a big fridge was just a way for Swedish Match to take up shelf visibility in stores. But we've seen the numbers. According to independent studies, Camel and Marlboro snus probably don't need to be refrigerated. For some reason, their bacteria doesn't spike at room temperature. Is it because of the container, or is it because they're manufactured from cigarette tobacco? Who knows. But going by the numbers, I'm convinced that Swedish Match refrigerates their snus out of a genuine desire for quality and commitment to the safety of their customers. Of this I am sure, because trust me- they really explored every option they could for somehow getting away from refrigerated chillers, which are a HUGE expense and retailer-relations hurdle- even going so far as to entertain the idea of a Marlboro-style foil pack.

But none of the other Swedish brands were tested in these studies, so I can't say anything about them either way.

Re: the new chillers- this is the fourth major model that Swedish Match has created for the American market. It's not manufactured by the people that make Camel chillers. The slots are too small for Camel snus to fit into. I'm guessing that the General packs could probably fit into Camel chillers, but in the tobacco industry this is so unacceptable a practice that in most territories, if the RJR rep were to walk into a store and see a competitor's product in their fixture, they would fine the store on the spot. (99% of the contracts that Big Tobacco sign with retailers include such a provision.)

RJR would either demand a pre-set monetary fine (around $1,000) or they would rescind all premiums and discounts that are given to that particular store. If the store refuses to accept the fine or penalty, RJR will simply pull their product from store shelves. You rarely see anything like this happen because it honestly never happens. I was distributing to a chain of C-stores that got fined every month by their tobacco suppliers- and their cigarettes were three times higher than any other store in town. Why? Because they hired inexpensive help (teenage dropouts) who stocked the cigarette shelves willy nilly and constantly had Phillip Morris brands on the RJR shelves and vice versa. Every time a tobacco rep would visit the store, they would levy a fine. Finally it got to a point where they just stopped selling all but the cheapest, no-name brand cigarettes, because they had to charge ten bucks a pack for name brands while every other store in town was around 3.00 a pack.

So no, I highly doubt that SM is hoping to get their product into RJR coolers.

[Ephemeris]

Oh, and some relatively good news I forgot to mention: Ettan Snuff is doing really well in their test market. Almost every single Copenhagen dipper that tries Ettan says that Ettan is a better product. They like the taste and the nicotine. The only complaint is that the grind is too fine. (These guys are all lower lipping it). I'm thinking that SM is probably going to end up seriously considering a Long Cut Ettan to sway the dipper crowd.

[Bigblue1]

Thanks for the detailed info Ephemeris. I like the strategy of pricing it higher than Camel, and I can get behind keeping the round can exclusive. I'm not sold on the idea that Americans will only buy mint. We have a lot of Americans here that don't, and I don't think we're particularly special.

I guess we'll see how it works for them, eh?

The fact that not all Americans like mint is proven by Copenhagens #1 seller status and it's longevity. That Being said, I dipped Kodiak for like 6 months before getting turned on to Cope and never looking back...... till I ordered some snus. yes I know I am only one man, but as said prior I cannot be alone.....

[Mawdryn]

The fact that not all Americans like mint is proven by Copenhagens #1 seller status and it's longevity. That Being said, I dipped Kodiak for like 6 months before getting turned on to Cope and never looking back...... till I ordered some snus. yes I know I am only one man, but as said prior I cannot be alone.....

My experience exactly. I quit smoking, started dipping Skoal Mint, and then found Copenhagen snuff. I did go back to smoking after it tore up my bottom lip, but still...

[jagmanss]

We had a long discussion on this as well. Swedish Match (Europe and US) are genuinely horrified that some companies are saying that snus doesn't need to be refrigerated. According to Elliot Eliades (Director of New Products at SM NA): "I can't speak for the other guys, but our snus needs to be refrigerated. The bacterial growth and freshness and quality issues that arise from sitting out at room temperature for several months may not bother some of these guys, but for Swedish Match, there's no way we're going to sell product like that to our customers."I was skeptical of this for years. I've always figured that keeping snus in a big fridge was just a way for Swedish Match to take up shelf visibility in stores. But we've seen the numbers. According to independent studies, Camel and Marlboro snus probably don't need to be refrigerated. For some reason, their bacteria doesn't spike at room temperature. Is it because of the container, or is it because they're manufactured from cigarette tobacco? Who knows. But going by the numbers, I'm convinced that Swedish Match refrigerates their snus out of a genuine desire for quality and commitment to the safety of their customers. Of this I am sure, because trust me- they really explored every option they could for somehow getting away from refrigerated chillers, which are a HUGE expense and retailer-relations hurdle- even going so far as to entertain the idea of a Marlboro-style foil pack.

But none of the other Swedish brands were tested in these studies, so I can't say anything about them either way.

Re: the new chillers- this is the fourth major model that Swedish Match has created for the American market. It's not manufactured by the people that make Camel chillers. The slots are too small for Camel snus to fit into. I'm guessing that the General packs could probably fit into Camel chillers, but in the tobacco industry this is so unacceptable a practice that in most territories, if the RJR rep were to walk into a store and see a competitor's product in their fixture, they would fine the store on the spot. (99% of the contracts that Big Tobacco sign with retailers include such a provision.)

RJR would either demand a pre-set monetary fine (around $1,000) or they would rescind all premiums and discounts that are given to that particular store. If the store refuses to accept the fine or penalty, RJR will simply pull their product from store shelves. You rarely see anything like this happen because it honestly never happens. I was distributing to a chain of C-stores that got fined every month by their tobacco suppliers- and their cigarettes were three times higher than any other store in town. Why? Because they hired inexpensive help (teenage dropouts) who stocked the cigarette shelves willy nilly and constantly had Phillip Morris brands on the RJR shelves and vice versa. Every time a tobacco rep would visit the store, they would levy a fine. Finally it got to a point where they just stopped selling all but the cheapest, no-name brand cigarettes, because they had to charge ten bucks a pack for name brands while every other store in town was around 3.00 a pack.

So no, I highly doubt that SM is hoping to get their product into RJR coolers.

Thanks for your reply to this, But Rick you got some esplaining to do as far as being a rep for Northerner....

[chadizzy1]

Thanks for your reply to this, But Rick you got some esplaining to do as far as being a rep for Northerner....

Rick primarily deals Jaks and V2, it may be different from SM stuff

[Ephemeris]

Rick primarily deals Jaks and V2, it may be different from SM stuff

Yeah, I want to stress that SM wasn't saying that the other Swedish companies were lying about their own brands not needing refrigeration. Jimmy and V2 have all said over the years that their snus was manufactured differently and packaged and sealed in a manner that Swedish Match doesn't use, so I take them at face value and accept that if they say their snus doesn't need refrigeration, they don't need refrigeration.

But what Swedish Match takes exception to is that some folks are implying that ALL snus (including Swedish Match's brands) don't need to be refrigerated. Swedish Match snus needs to be refrigerated, and they don't want a competitor to put the idea into a retailers mind that it is OK to unplug the Swedish Match cooler to save a few cents on the electricity bill.

[rickcharles606]

We had a long discussion on this as well. Swedish Match (Europe and US) are genuinely horrified that some companies are saying that snus doesn't need to be refrigerated. According to Elliot Eliades (Director of New Products at SM NA): "I can't speak for the other guys, but our snus needs to be refrigerated. The bacterial growth and freshness and quality issues that arise from sitting out at room temperature for several months may not bother some of these guys, but for Swedish Match, there's no way we're going to sell product like that to our customers."

I was skeptical of this for years. I've always figured that keeping snus in a big fridge was just a way for Swedish Match to take up shelf visibility in stores. But we've seen the numbers. According to independent studies, Camel and Marlboro snus probably don't need to be refrigerated. For some reason, their bacteria doesn't spike at room temperature. Is it because of the container, or is it because they're manufactured from cigarette tobacco? Who knows. But going by the numbers, I'm convinced that Swedish Match refrigerates their snus out of a genuine desire for quality and commitment to the safety of their customers. Of this I am sure, because trust me- they really explored every option they could for somehow getting away from refrigerated chillers, which are a HUGE expense and retailer-relations hurdle- even going so far as to entertain the idea of a Marlboro-style foil pack.

But none of the other Swedish brands were tested in these studies, so I can't say anything about them either way.

Re: the new chillers- this is the fourth major model that Swedish Match has created for the American market. It's not manufactured by the people that make Camel chillers. The slots are too small for Camel snus to fit into. I'm guessing that the General packs could probably fit into Camel chillers, but in the tobacco industry this is so unacceptable a practice that in most territories, if the RJR rep were to walk into a store and see a competitor's product in their fixture, they would fine the store on the spot. (99% of the contracts that Big Tobacco sign with retailers include such a provision.)

RJR would either demand a pre-set monetary fine (around $1,000) or they would rescind all premiums and discounts that are given to that particular store. If the store refuses to accept the fine or penalty, RJR will simply pull their product from store shelves. You rarely see anything like this happen because it honestly never happens. I was distributing to a chain of C-stores that got fined every month by their tobacco suppliers- and their cigarettes were three times higher than any other store in town. Why? Because they hired inexpensive help (teenage dropouts) who stocked the cigarette shelves willy nilly and constantly had Phillip Morris brands on the RJR shelves and vice versa. Every time a tobacco rep would visit the store, they would levy a fine. Finally it got to a point where they just stopped selling all but the cheapest, no-name brand cigarettes, because they had to charge ten bucks a pack for name brands while every other store in town was around 3.00 a pack.

So no, I highly doubt that SM is hoping to get their product into RJR coolers.

LOL, so let me get this straight, the great and mighty SM can't figure out how to increase shelf life and retain moisture without a refrigerator, but other smaller manufacturers can accomplish it AND somehow keep TSNA levels from rising for at least 4 months unrefrigerated. These smaller manufacturers also use independent labs to do their testing, to ensure their product is safe. So, Elliot doesn't want to "sell product like that" to his customers, ahahaha. Product like what?

Remember SM is the company that recently attacked V2 for selling "dirty" snus. It seems those claims were wildly exaggerated as are the claims of "required refrigeration". If RJR doesn't need to be refrigerated...why is it? Placement...pure and simple. They're merely following in SM's footsteps. Also, let me pose this question, is General shipped in refrigerated trucks when going to the distributors? Or when travelling from the distributor to the retailer? If not,(and I can almost guarantee it isn't) then how can Mr. Eliades sleep at night, knowing he's selling "product like that" to his customers?

Look, I guess I don't blame SM because it's a fantastic marketing idea. Now all this being said, once I open a can of SM snus, I pop it in the fridge to keep it moist. I'm guessing it has something to do with the inferior can design that they use, and don't get me started on the paper cans and how quickly they cause snus to dry out. I'll leave you with one last thing. I met Mr. Eliades at the AWMA show in Vegas. He seemed like a very nice man, and when I asked him about this very thing...he said and I quote "Well, your guys must have some different ingredient that can allow for it to be left out, but ours has to be refrigerated" I didn't persue him on this because, what's the point really?

There's no magic ingredient, lol. Did he forget that snus companies put the ingredients on the can?

[rickcharles606]

Yeah, I want to stress that SM wasn't saying that the other Swedish companies were lying about their own brands not needing refrigeration. Jimmy and V2 have all said over the years that their snus was manufactured differently and packaged and sealed in a manner that Swedish Match doesn't use, so I take them at face value and accept that if they say their snus doesn't need refrigeration, they don't need refrigeration.

But what Swedish Match takes exception to is that some folks are implying that ALL snus (including Swedish Match's brands) don't need to be refrigerated. Swedish Match snus needs to be refrigerated, and they don't want a competitor to put the idea into a retailers mind that it is OK to unplug the Swedish Match cooler to save a few cents on the electricity bill.

LOL, your post implies that someone's been telling retailers to unplug their fridges? Is that right? SM, can claim that their snus needs to be refrigerated all they want, and they can tell their retailers that their snus needs to be refrigerated. The retailers will in the end, do what they want. It seems that with all their distribution issues, they'd be more concerned with keeping expired product out of their precious refrigerators. Feck, if your "new" friend Elliot wants to address this with me directly, feel free to give him my number, lol.

[Darwin]

I'm not sold on the idea that Americans will only buy mint. We have a lot of Americans here that don't, and I don't think we're particularly special.

Au contraire "rllsxl". We forumites are almost by definition "special" since virtually all of us are converted acolytes of the religion of the great god Snus, and thus entirely discerning human type style guys, but our aggregate numbers are scarcely a mouthful of krill in the maws of the leviathans who ply the choppy seas of U.S. tobacco consumption. It is true that even as small fry we punch above our weight in terms of influencing trends and providing knowledgeable product feedback but the combined purchases of every man-jack (and woman-jill) whomsoever has darkened this forum's doorway would scarcely amount to a rounding error in SM's ledgers and are entirely inconsequential to the likes of RJR and Altria.

Hard to counsel patience I know, hate the stuff myself, but the route chosen by SM may be one of those decisions that fall into the "least bad" category. The exigent cirumstances of the U.S market means that they must court not the brevet regiment of snusers resident hereon but instead must contrive to crack into an extremely mature market dominated by vasty legions of, as you yourself have often commented, clueless knuckleheads. The river may wear down the stone but it requires time measured in decades so any serious expectations of sauntering down to the local Stop & Rob to scarf up a can of GES, RL los, or saint's preserve us Oden's extreme, are due to be cruelly unmet this side of 2020. Or, as been pointed out already, even longer if this SM push flames out.

Be all that as it may if I spy the new offerings anywhere my peepers will light up like a hungry Goa'uld and I'll lunge toward them like a dude possessed. Gather ye rosebuds, and ye snus natcherly, while ye may--and wherever the heck ye may.

[chadizzy1]

LOL, so let me get this straight, the great and mighty SM can't figure out how to increase shelf life and retain moisture without a refrigerator, but other smaller manufacturers can accomplish it AND somehow keep TSNA levels from rising for at least 4 months unrefrigerated.

There's no magic ingredient, lol. Did he forget that snus companies put the ingredients on the can?

Rick, am I to assume you won't be helping distribute the new snus?

[chadizzy1]

like a hungry Goa'uld

I get this because I like Stargate. . Haha