ATTENTION ALL SNUSERS! A call to action...

[CoderGuy]

I'm not sure HOW they can even enforce this!! the federal postage inspectors check for things that are against federal law like cocaine or weed. But it's not their role to enforce a state's law.

Good point. I imagine 50% of it will be scare tactics.

I know here in WA back a few years ago when they started going after people for buying cigarettes online what they did was to go after known online companies and force them to release records of orders from all WA residents. Some fought it but they threatened to go to court, most folded as they didn't want a fight. Then the state started sending massive bills to people who had been ordering. This encouraged other states to start building lists of know companies for their use.

They are doing a similar thing now in PA (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_629541.html) and other states will follow I am sure.

It's no secret for instance that a lot of snusers buy from the same places. Sure there are plenty others but most stick with the large reliable ones, and so do the states. That's only a few companies to try and strong-arm for maximum return. Now I doubt a state could legally strong-arm a private company in another country, but it's not like these companies have promised to protect our identities, so given the choice between turning over that state's order records or going to battle, I imagine most will just comply (that's what happened here with the cigarette online places, they just didn't want to fight it).

So while I bet that technically it would probably be very difficult or impossible to enforce, they have enough tricks up their sleeves to scare most people into submission. With the new law in WA that goes into effect July 26th for instance, it is a class C felony for each violation. According to the document each shipment is a violation. They have said max penalty will be 5k, but that could add up, not to mention the tax bill, and having multiple felonies on your record. That's enough to keep me from ordering online, it's just not worth the risk.

CoderGuy

[geeeeoffff]

crap, well...

let's start harassing our local smoke shop owners to start carrying snus i guess.

[CoderGuy]

crap, well...

let's start harassing our local smoke shop owners to start carrying snus i guess.

I think that is the key, we need to start educating our smoke shop owners that Camel SNUS is NOT the only brand of snus available (as 2 of the ones I went to told me) and get them to carry some of the good ones.

CoderGuy

[MasterGuns]

...they have enough tricks up their sleeves to scare most people into submission.

CoderGuy

Scary that we can use those words now when describing our own laws.
Sure elsewhere in the world it's 10000x worse, but our legislators have turned chickens***. First it's a bill in the mail, now they can haul you off in handcuffs and take away your right to vote, all because you refuse to be controlled by a vice tax. Petty fools, and to think we keep electing these people.

[Roo]

CoderGuy, I talked to the guy at Yesler Tobacco Patch today. First, he was unaware of the law. 2nd, he doesn't own that location so he told me to talk to the owner of all 3 who runs the Pike Place store. I'll do that this weekend if I find myself downtown. He was a little confused at first as to what I was suggesting. I clarified it for him by saying I would compile a list with rolls of various brands (with your help and money for yours), we would agree on a retail price, and pay up front, at least the first couple times. He was concerned about ordering it and then not being able to sell it, so I suggested a couple trial runs of paying up front. He also mentioned that lots of Skandos buy up his General, so in the event that he had a surplus of our preferred brands, I'm sure he could unload them. An interesting side note: he said they have to place an order for General every week it's selling so fast! One concern of mine is that it sounded like have a distribution agreement with Swedish Match, which could have a stipulation that they don't sell competitor's brands. There is definitely no Camel in those stores. This might pose a problem to us ordering any non-SM brands. Whatever the case, I will find out soon and let you know what the owner says. In the meantime, I decided to play it safe and order about $100 worth tomorrow. I think that's about all I can afford right now. You gonna do the same?

[CoderGuy]

CoderGuy, I talked to the guy at Yesler Tobacco Patch today. First, he was unaware of the law. 2nd, he doesn't own that location so he told me to talk to the owner of all 3 who runs the Pike Place store. I'll do that this weekend if I find myself downtown. He was a little confused at first as to what I was suggesting. I clarified it for him by saying I would compile a list with rolls of various brands (with your help and money for yours), we would agree on a retail price, and pay up front, at least the first couple times. He was concerned about ordering it and then not being able to sell it, so I suggested a couple trial runs of paying up front. He also mentioned that lots of Skandos buy up his General, so in the event that he had a surplus of our preferred brands, I'm sure he could unload them. An interesting side note: he said they have to place an order for General every week it's selling so fast! One concern of mine is that it sounded like have a distribution agreement with Swedish Match, which could have a stipulation that they don't sell competitor's brands. There is definitely no Camel in those stores. This might pose a problem to us ordering any non-SM brands. Whatever the case, I will find out soon and let you know what the owner says. In the meantime, I decided to play it safe and order about $100 worth tomorrow. I think that's about all I can afford right now. You gonna do the same?

Roo, great to know, thanks! I think it will be a hard sell to get them to do something different. I still can't get my smoke shops to even acknowledge that Camel SNUS isn't the only snus LOL Amazing how clueless these shops are.

I have not found one person yet that knew about the law. I am sure that is "part of the plan" as they will catch a lot of unsuspecting people that way. I found it interesting in looking at the law's history (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...2009&bill=5340) that it wasn't brought up to a vote by the people. Introduced in Jan and just pushed right though the house, senate, then signed by the Gov. From introduction to law in 4 months, not bad, wish all areas of gov't worked that fast. I guess things like this don't need voter approval (other than themselves, sort of like their raises that we hear they pass at 3AM each year).

I haven't stocked up as this whole thing has me so disgusted I am actually contemplating quitting all together so as not to give them the satisfaction (I know, they want that too, but they want my tax dollars more, so it's just a matter of which I deny them of). Plus I am not sure if the order arriving after the effective date would make the shipment illegal or not, so not taking any chances. I hate no-win situations.

Edit: Just a note for all of you watching this unfold; if it can happen here and in Utah, it can happen in your state. Additionally and to get back on topic of this thread, you still have a chance to help stop the PACT Act which would be like this law except for the whole country. There is still time for you, start fighting now or it will be too late (plus I suggest you start Googling to see if a similar law is already in the works in your state).

We do nothing and they win! We Washingtonians have learned this the hard way.

CoderGuy

[CivilizedRedneck]

Are you guys positive on the felony thing? Ive looked at the actual bill on the utah senate web site and here it is a CLASS C misdemeanor for a violation.. so im just gonna take my chances.. i guess it passed in like march or maybe may and i started ordering and havent heard anything.. so we will see i guess. :|

[CoderGuy]

Are you guys positive on the felony thing? Ive looked at the actual bill on the utah senate web site and here it is a CLASS C misdemeanor for a violation.. so im just gonna take my chances.. i guess it passed in like march or maybe may and i started ordering and havent heard anything.. so we will see i guess. :|

Yep, here is our bill (the WA bill), line 36.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/bil.../5340-S.SL.pdf

CoderGuy

[CivilizedRedneck]

Man that really sucks. I feel for ya.

I think if i ever get to the point where i cant get any (aka i get caught or they stop shipping it to my state) i am gonna have to get a relative that lives in wyoming or idaho order it for me and make a trip up every few months or so..

Pretty frustrating thats for sure.. I just hate the helpless feeling that comes with all this.. Im a good member of society, i pay my taxes, and hell, i dont cause anyone any type of harm whatsoever (which may change if they cut of my snus :wink: )

Hope you figure somethin out, and if u do, shoot that idea my way!!