PACT: A Coherent Discussion

[Snusmun]

Thanks Roo! ...and thanks for keeping this important discussion alive.

[sagedil]

Actually agree, and am pleased so far at how this thread has progressed. But I think starting from my rather conservative perspective on this helps keep the "stress" about all it tamped down.

And as for the question about whether President Obama will sign. Yes, of course, 99% of obviously expects he will. But at least one small 1% says. Wait a minute, he is still a smoker. And what a great opportunity for him to throw a bone to the other side and say, "hell no, enough with the added taxes already, I am not gonna let you target a small minority just because you can." Hopeful for that outcome?? of course now. But do I want to think it is still possible. Yes. As long as I can.

[sgreger1]

Seems to me that we can safely assume a few things about the PACT...

I for one am glad to hear it will still be available, albeit at a higher price. If you think about it, most of the time I buy 20 or more cans at a time, which equals out to roughly 2, maybe 3$ a can. Even if by your estimates (which I think are correct), it rises 30%-100% I'm still only going to be paying under 6$ in the 100% worst case scenario, though I still think it's likely suppliers will mitigate this by offering better bulk discounts. (Otherwise they may find me hiding in their bushes in the middle of the night with a knife :twisted

So at the end of the day, it's still cheaper than what's on the shelves so I can't in good faith complain too much, as those here who ever smoked in a state like CA know that 5-6$ is still pretty cheap, especially since (at least for me) snus lasts longer.



@Scylla: ROFL, yah right. The HC bill will not take excess money saved and put that towards lowering tobacco taxes. In fact, that is probably the very last thing they would do with that money. But that's another thread.

[LHB]

Snus will be more expensive than cigarettes in Texas if PACT passes; I hope those of you who live in low tax states can keep the business going when those of us in high tax states drop out of the market. **** it; I'm not paying $6-$7 a can for Swedish Snus. I have no problem going back to smoking, if for no othe reason than to use it as an excuse to provoke confrontations with health-food faggots in jeans that they haven't been able to button for the last five years. Good luck to Swedish Match on Wall Street. That "luxury" trendoid thing is about 4 years behind the curve.

[Snusmun]

LHB, I know you and many others don't want to pay the additional taxes on principal. But if you go back to buying tobacco for smoking, you'll be paying the taxes anyway. You won't be sticking it to anyone but yourself. If you really want to stick it to the man, grow the tobacco yourself...then you can smoke it, snus it, snort it, freebase it....whatever it takes.

I agree with you sgregr1. To me it's not enough reason to abandon snus, especially given the fact that for most people, a tin lasts more than a day....for many up to 3 days or longer. So for your normal pack/day smoker, that alone makes it more economical than cigarettes even after the most extreme PACT taxes. But I don't know how this works out for RYO cigs, even with the $25/pound tax....I'm sure using pipe tobacco would be much cheaper.

BTW, does anyone know what the average wholesale price / manufacturer's cost is for snus?

[LaZeR]

And LaZeR hasn't even posted yet!

Why's everybodys always pickens on me?

Ontopic

[Toque Snuff]

What really annoys me is that Pact won't make the slightest dent in our US sales and will probably increase our turnover at the expense of our US retail customers.

This is one of the most foolish acts since prohibition.

We send all orders free of charge to the USA by Royal Mail, US Govt cannot interfere with UK commerce in any shape or form and we will continue to supply US customers directly. The only difference I can see is that potentially those customers may get some of their orders intercepted and have to pay tax on an intercepted order. This is no different from the current situation; we currently stick a CN22 customs declaration on all our US orders and customs are supposed to collect the tax on entry to the US and US mail is supposed to collect the local state tax on delivery. To date this has never happened and none of our US customers have had to pay any tax.

Canadians on the other hand have to pay 1 in 20 times as their customs do occasionally catch the odd shipment.

[midnight]

Will the PACT act affect prices of tobacco products in local stores, or only shipments of tobacco products that are being imported to the US from international countries?

[heapbag]

Canadians on the other hand have to pay 1 in 20 times as their customs do occasionally catch the odd shipment.

Hi Roderick,
I just placed my first Toque order through your website last week. Hopefully I should get it sometime this week, but out of interest what is the description you use on the customs declaration? i.e. nasal snuff, nasal tobacco snuff or simply "snuff"?

Being in Canada I pretty much have to make the assumption that it will get assessed duties but I'm just wondering how its declared.

[Mordred]

Interestingly:

Warning: Visiting this site may harm your computer!
The website at www.tobaccofreekids.org DON'T CLICK THIS LINK appears to host malware – software that can hurt your computer or otherwise operate without your consent. Just visiting a site that hosts malware can infect your computer.
For detailed information about the problems with this site, visit the Google Safe Browsing diagnostic page for www.tobaccofreekids.org.DON'T CLICK THIS LINK

I got that when I clicked on the link in a previous post.

[Toque Snuff]

The Pact act shouldn't affect prices when ordering from Europe in any way, only the tax will be added if they are detected and that could be a big if!

For all exports we put “snuff tins”, “snuff bullets” or “snuff economy bags”.

[heapbag]

The Pact act shouldn't affect prices when ordering from Europe in any way, only the tax will be added if they are detected and that could be a big if!

For all exports we put “snuff tins”, “snuff bullets” or “snuff economy bags”.

Thanks for the reply Roderick!

And to all my American brothers (and sisters) I feel for you re: PACT.

Your government is becoming like ours (shudders)!

[ladysnus]

Roderick, if the US mail can't deliver tobacco, well helll I'm confused :?:

if your snuff can make it here US mail it would seem the same for snus from Sweden

[LHB]

Roderick, if the US mail can't deliver tobacco, well helll I'm confused :?:

if your snuff can make it here US mail it would seem the same for snus from Sweden

"Can't" means "is illegal." UK and Swedish shippers are not likely to be extradited for violating US tobacco laws. If the shipments originate outside the US, the worst that can happen to the shippers is that the package be seized, and the customer decides not to risk purchasing from them again. You "can" mail anything you want through the USPS, it's just that it's illegal to mail some of those things. Have you ever broken the law before? If you plan on being a tobacco user, you had better get used to it.

[Toque Snuff]

Ladysnus,

You are quite correct; it is against the world trade organisation convention on free trade to interfere with the commerce of other member states. The USA and most European countries are members of the WTO.

As long as we use the correct tariff code and fully declare the contents to US customs and Federal tax offices we are within the law and fully compliant with the incoming Pact Act.