I know it's slightly annoying to see another new thread about PACT, but as a courtesy to those who wish to read about and discuss issues related to this soon-to-be law without sifting through pages of political ranting, cheese-love, Rastafari 101, and the dubious correlation between racism and the criminalization of marijuana, let's try to make an effort to keep this thread on-topic. I don't have much to say, but I do appreciate reading everyone else's opinions, information, and speculations even, and there is sure to be a whole lot of folks browsing the net for information on PACT, so let's pretend we're not as crazy as we are and exercise focus and restraint. Are we up for the challenge?
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There is nothing to talk about now. Why not wait until we begin to see what the REAL affects are. -
As I said, I don't have anything to talk about either. But it should be obvious that plenty of people still want to talk about it sage. I still want to read about it. With all due respect, please do not indicate what is and what is not worth talking about. Many have indicated that they would prefer to have a thread with off-topic nonsense at a minimal. So I made one. Whether or not anyone uses it remains to be seen, but input as to whether or not it should be used isn't relevant. And I'm not trying to cop an attitude, there's enough of that to go around, just defending my post (which I shouldn't need to do). Cheers.Comment
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I just hope you don't say that line after having sex!Originally posted by sagedilComment
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Off the rails already.....Originally posted by GoVeganComment
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And LaZeR hasn't even posted yet!Originally posted by Bigblue1Comment
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Here's a link to an article about the Seneca's still fighting PACT, this time by putting pressure on Obama to veto the Bill. You would think this would be a non-issue, because Obama is "sure" to sign it, right?
http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/03/1...der-urges.html
But on the other hand, the National Tobacco Association yesterday was urging their members to call the White House to advocate signing The Bill into law.
http://www.csdecisions.com/article/9...-pact-act.html
So there are still fears on the other side that this thing might get derailed at the last minute. I'm not trying to create false hope in anybody, I'm just saying it's not over yet. There are some people with a lot more to lose (Native Americans especially) than snusers and snuffers who are still fighting it, and if it's passed, these groups will no doubt be part of finding ways around it and ways to deal with it.
The snus and snuff markets are very small, even relative to the RYO/MYO communities, not to mention the REGULAR cigarette market, which is what this Act is really going after. I'm keeping my eyes on the Senecas.
And I encourage you to call the White House to register your opinion (the number is in the second article above), preferably without referring to cheese or saying something like "Death to the Fascist Insect That Preys Upon the People."Comment
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Theres no way Obama will veto this bill. It's going through. That's that.
But really, why is everyone seeing this as such a bad thing? I thought it meant no more shipping tobacco, but that's not the case, so not sure what everyone's concern is now.
I mean it sounds like we can all still order snus, just from US warehouses, right?Comment
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totally agree. I want solid proof, not speculation from the fine folks at snuson. The FDA is just starting to flex their muscle. The tobacco bling is a good example.Originally posted by sagedilComment
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The FDA is going to find it's muscle flexing ability severly limited by State Government Budgets, which need the tax revenue from tobacco sales. It wouldn't suprise me to see states begin to LOWER tax rates as a way of increasing tax revenues.
The economic rationale is that when the price of a thing gets very high, the demand for it becomes price inelastic, which means lowering the price increases total expenditures on the thing. If total expenditures increase by a greater percentage than the tax rate decreases, the government's tax revenues go up. I used to work on Applied Microeconomic problems like this all the time when I was a graduate student, and I'm sure there are state government officials right now who are starting to plan how to market tax DECREASES on tobacco. This whole PACT thing was driven by two forces: big tobacco trying to protect market share, and state governments trying to protect shrinking tax revenues.
BTW, if you really want to hear God laugh, in addition to announcing your plans, you could also express absolute certainty about something and then say "and that's that." I'm sure He has a chuckle every time he hears that phrase. Nothing is "over." Nothing.Comment
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I wholeheartedly agree. Being a newbie snus user, I was a little nervous when I first heard about PACT, especially not knowing the specifics of the bill itself. My initial impression was that we would longer be able to buy snus online at all. Now that things have calmed slightly, it's been good to hear some voices of reason on the subject. As long as I have assurance that I can still order snus online (albeit slightly more expensive to order snus) I will be just fine.Originally posted by sgreger1Comment
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I am curious about one thing. If the national health care bill goes through then will these taxes be rolled back?
In the state of Illinois the reason cited for high cigarette taxes is a state health ins. program for children. So it follows, if funding for health care comes from elsewhere, then no need for the high tobacco taxes. Right?Comment
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Seems to me that we can safely assume a few things about the PACT.
1)It's almost certainly going to pass.
2)We will have to pay a small federal tobacco tax on snus.
3)We will have to pay a state tobacco tax on snus, which varies wildly from state to state. Anywhere from 0% on up to >100% of wholesale/manufacturers cost. This is where any substantial increase in price will come from.
4)Shipment through USPS will be outlawed. Snus will have to be shipped using UPS, FedEx etc., assuming they don't change their policy and stop shipping smokeless tobaccco. If they continue to ship, age will have to be verified upon delivery. For UPS this is an extra $4. (thnks GoVegan).
5)Local/sales taxes. This deserves a :?: Right now we don't pay local taxes if we order online from out of state. (well we are supposed to claim it on our state taxes, but most don't ) It remains to be seen if sales tax will be enforced and collected at the same time as the fed/state tobacco taxes. If state tobacco taxes are going to be enforced by federal law (absolutely insane), then why not sales tax as well. Anyone have more insight into this?
6)When PACT gets signed into law, it will most likely take 90 days to go into effect. So we will have 3 months to make tax free purchases to stock up.
By my estimation there are about 20 states where the combined taxes are going to raise the overall cost of snus by at least 30%, on up to 100%. Most states will see a moderate increase around or below 30%. Pennsylvania residents are pretty much off the hook, since there is no state tobacco tax.
The links have been posted before, here they are again: Look up your state, do the math...be prepared and know what to expect.
http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/resea...s/pdf/0169.pdf
Edit by PP; I've been told the above link has a virus that will infect your computer. Click on this link at your own risk. You have been warned!!
http://www.ttb.gov/main_pages/schip-summary.shtml
And you can track the bill here: All that remains is Obama's signature, which will most likely come next week.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-1147Comment
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Real information is surfacing and some people here are doing their best to find it. This is a place to put it that isn't overrun with arguments about pot and cop-killing. So is it cool with everyone that people who want to talk about something can do so without hearing from people who don't that there isn't any reason to talk about it? All of these attempts to shoot down a discussion about very current events that affect us, to whatever degree, and obviously interests at least some of us, are not in the spirit of an internet forum! Thanks to those of you who continue researching this and who are doing something to provide reliable information. Peace to all, roo.Comment
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Bless your heart snusmun, that's exactly what I was hoping for. It's not news to me, but I think some people will find that information very helpful. Thanks again man. You're a great addition to this forum.Comment
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Hi all!
I know PACT act seems to be almost like saying racist against tobacco users now days but, I also noticed that no one had posted the... -
In a Nutshell:
- mailed packages must state the name and address of the sender
- the sender must be a member of the Seneca Free Trade Association
- mailings
09-07-10, 12:11 PM -
We wanted to make sure all lovers of Swedish snus had access to the PACT Act in it's entirety! So, for all to read, here's the entire bill:
03-04-10, 05:49 AM -
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The Washington Free Beacon ^
A new project from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) is using computer simulated training sessions to...18-01-15, 12:34 AM
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