How would you market snus to the US market?

[RRK]

ITT: Appealing to minors 101

ITT?

[lxskllr]

ITT: Appealing to minors 101

ITT?

InThisThread

[RRK]

InThisThread

Ah, thanks.

I don't really see this thread being about appealing to minors unless all snus and snuff does. I thought that is more about fruity flavors and cartoon characters and all that.

[bsd777]

sources please for the skoal and copenhagen having those levels of TSNA's
The most recent study I've found is http://cro.sagepub.com/cgi/content/full/15/5/252#T3
Check out section4 table 2 specifically you will see that skoal and copenhagen ar not that high
Now I'm not a math major either but to make the correlation that something with 8 ppm of tsna is 4 times more carcinogenic than something with 2 ppm of tsna is just plain ridiculous.
I get the reason why everybody wants to demonize dip and exalt snus. We all don't want to think about the big C word that we here in the US were always told we were gonna get if we used dip. Well apparently that was a hoax probably one perpetuated by the PM and RJR long before they ever thought about acquiring all the US smokeless manufacturers under their corporate umbrellas. So take it easy guys snus, dip, Chew, snuff. It'll be okay

I really do hope you are right. It won't matter to me personally, but I wish good health on everyone. Here's how I found my sources http://lmgtfy.com/?q=TSNA+levels+Copenhagen
This one was from June 2001.
http://www.tobacco.org/News/010622BostonRe.html

I had not seen your article before. Like I said, I hope you are correct, but the fact that that the manufacturer of Copenhagen paid for the study is a little less assuring to me.
"The authors thank Dr. Philip Cole for his review of the manuscript. Dr. Rodu is supported in part by an unrestricted grant from the United States Smokeless Tobacco Company to the Tobacco Research Fund of the University of Alabama at Birmingham."
I didn't see any potential conflicts of interest in any of the other TSNA reporting I read. Perhaps if just one more source came up with the same numbers? It would seem a difficult test to fudge. I know that Swedish tobacco manufactures often publish their numbers. I wonder why US manufactures do not do the same? Months ago, before I made the switch to Swedish snus, I'd been using Klondike, but I still had concerns. So I asked them to provide TSNAs and describe their "just like the Swedes" manufacturing process but they never responded.

I still think 8 is 4 times as high as 2. Am I missing something? It wouldn't be the first time.

[Bigblue1]

I still think 8 is 4 times as high as 2. Am I missing something? It wouldn't be the first time.

No you are correct 4x2 does = 8 but we are talking about ppm
This is a way of expressing very dilute concentrations of substances. Just as per cent means out of a hundred, so parts per million or ppm means out of a million. Usually describes the concentration of something in water or soil. One ppm is equivalent to 1 milligram of something per liter of water (mg/l) or 1 milligram of something per kilogram soil (mg/kg).*
so it's more like .000002 x .000004= .000008 if you get my drift it's not quite the same. I'm no science or math major either (but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night) So if I'm confused somebody please correct me.

*http://www.biochem.northwestern.edu/...r_million.html

[Snusmun]

doesn't matter how many zeros you have, its still 4 x as much....

like this: 0.000000002 x 4 = 0.000000008

Or a better way is simply to divide. 0.000000008/0.000000002 = 4

[tom502]

TSNA are naturally occurring elements found in many foods. Some more than others. But from what I have read, it's really only a factor with inhaled smoke. Tobacco in the mouth is like brocolli in the mouth. I don't have any fear of cancer, what enters my mind most in gum recession, which I believe, apart from aging factors, and overall health factors, can occur just by having something on the gums. Now the highly sweet chew, I hope doesn't affect my teeth, as I do rinse afterwards, and brush my teeth before bed.

[MN_Snuser]

Regarding the current level of TSNA in various types of smokeless tobacco. The most current study I found is from 2006.

See page 86 of the study I have linked below.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/1041204/Na...oSOS029Program

[BadAxe]

TSNA are naturally occurring elements found in many foods.

But wait, I thought the TS in TSNA stood for Tobacco Specific? How are TSNA's in food then? I know there are NA's in food, but TSNA's? Or are they just fudging with acronyms then?

[gambino]

TSNA are naturally occurring elements found in many foods.

But wait, I thought the TS in TSNA stood for Tobacco Specific? How are TSNA's in food then? I know there are NA's in food, but TSNA's? Or are they just fudging with acronyms then?

nitrosamines are used in pesticides

[chainsnuser]

TSNA are naturally occurring elements found in many foods.

But wait, I thought the TS in TSNA stood for Tobacco Specific? How are TSNA's in food then? I know there are NA's in food, but TSNA's? Or are they just fudging with acronyms then?

The term TSNA is just another trick, used by the anti tobacco-workers to fool people to smoke on (which keeps their jobs save). If every nicotine-addict switched to low-harm or no-harm tobacco, they'd run out of their fundings sooner or later and be unemployed. That's where most of the anti-smokeless-propaganda comes from (apart from the few puritan freaks that certainly also have a home in the anti-tobacco-movement, I think that most really fear about their jobs when they attack snus).

Nonetheless, (regarding the statistics that I've seen) even air-cured and steam-pasteurized tobacco contains about 1000 times as many nitrosamines as every other food-product (e.g. contaminated drinking water from the vicinity of conventional farmland, or grilled meat), only that it's not consumed by the litre or pound, like other food products - and when it comes to snus, most gets spit out after use, so that the nitrosamines don't even make it into our metabolism.

On balance, I've virtually stopped to think about (TS)NA's years ago, the (TS)NA-contents of the main brands of modern, western smokeless tobacco certainly do not matter.

Now, if I read that certain brands of nasal snuff have 1000 ppm TSNA's, that still gets me interested (in the meaning that I would be hesitating to use such stuff), but to read listings where one brand of snus (or dip) has 1.3 and the other brand has 0.9 ppm of NA's is just a waste of time to me. The chance for measurement-errors if far higher than the chance that one brand really could have a worse health impact than the other.

Cheers!

[RRK]

Wait, wait, aren't you guys basically making the same argument as the EU and the anti-tobacco groups? You are basically saying that snus isn't really any safer then moist snuff. I was under the impression that snus does not increase your risk of oral cancer while I really think it is proven that moist snuff users risk significantly increased chances. I mean obviously smoking is the worst but if snus is on par with other oral tobacco then I may have to rethink my use.

So are you saying that moist snuff risks are false or snus and moist snuff risks are the same? Or maybe you are inferring that there are other carcinogenic components to moist snuff that are not included in snus. I don't really understand. Are you saying that the snus producers are just conning us into thinking it is safer?

[Bigblue1]

Now, if I read that certain brands of nasal snuff have 1000 ppm TSNA's, that still gets me interested (in the meaning that I would be hesitating to use such stuff), but to read listings where one brand of snus (or dip) has 1.3 and the other brand has 0.9 ppm of NA's is just a waste of time to me. The chance for measurement-errors if far higher than the chance that one brand really could have a worse health impact than the other.

Cheers!

If you refer back to the study I linked you will see that they re-testd those 2 dry snuffs as the readings didn't make sense and the tsna's fell in line with the other products.

[LHB]

I think the general point being raised above is that, while there is a statistically significant difference between certain health risks and Swedish Snuff v. American Snuff, the level of risk is so small in the first place, that the difference is of little practical importance.

It's the old "statistical significance" v. "practical significance" thing.

[Bigblue1]

Wait, wait, aren't you guys basically making the same argument as the EU and the anti-tobacco groups? You are basically saying that snus isn't really any safer then moist snuff. I was under the impression that snus does not increase your risk of oral cancer while I really think it is proven that moist snuff users risk significantly increased chances. I mean obviously smoking is the worst but if snus is on par with other oral tobacco then I may have to rethink my use.

So are you saying that moist snuff risks are false or snus and moist snuff risks are the same? Or maybe you are inferring that there are other carcinogenic components to moist snuff that are not included in snus. I don't really understand. Are you saying that the snus producers are just conning us into thinking it is safer?

My personal opinion from the research I've done is that smokeless tobacco is not that harmful period. Here in the US it has gotten terrible press that as I've said before was most likely waged against it by the big cigarette manufacturers. I've been told my whole life That my jaw was literally gonna fall off at any minute if i did or continued to do the stuff. I think that Sweden has been the best indicator as to what cancer rates would do if the world went smokeless regardless if it was snus, snuff, moist dip, or chew. In my life I've personally seen 2 people afflicted with oral cancer. Neither of them used smokeless tobacco. one smoked my uncle now dead. Both were alcoholics. Don't hear that much do you. But yes you have far greater risks of Head and neck cancers from excessive drinkink than oral tobacco.
So my main point was that snus is safe but not risk free. American snus is safe but not risk free. Also do your own research so that you can make the best decision for yourself. Don't just believe what others tell you. The info is out there if you want to find it.......