How would you market snus to the US market?

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  • bsd777
    Member
    • Nov 2009
    • 261

    #46
    People like to smoke and dip snuff and the only way you are going to get either to give snus a try is if they understand the real health risks and TSNA. Now how do you get this message across in the US? Or will the govt and lawyers even let you?

    Many dippers I've spoken to are very receptive, they just need to know the truth regarding DRAMATICALLY lower TSNAs. Most smokers will initially see snus as the same as dip and think they would rather have a cigarette or mistakenly believe snus use would put them at greater risk of oral cancer than continuing to smoke would.

    The image projected should be Swedish, Ikea and sophistication this should work for most smokers. They don't want to be seen as a hillybilly and don't want a lip full of Cope. If they did, they'd already be doing that. Most smokers are probably going to prefer portions. Emphasis neat, clean, sophisticated and satisfying.

    Dippers aren't going to go for portions. Copenhagen is the number one choice for most, second would be skoal. They need los. Portions will not do. Snuff prices are ridiculously high in many parts of the county. This is another factor. A successful US snus program aimed at dippers would emphasis HEATH, no spitting and provide inexpensive los similar to Grov, General, Etten or Knox.

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    • BadAxe
      Member
      • Jan 2010
      • 631

      #47
      Originally posted by bsd777
      Dippers aren't going to go for portions. Copenhagen is the number one choice for most, second would be skoal. They need los. Portions will not do
      Why are dippers different than smokers? Why do dippers need something as close to dip as possible and anything else will not do, yet smokers take to snus (which is COMPLETELY different than smoking) very easily.

      I don't know. I read that a lot. Gambino even mentioned it. But I don't get it. If you were seeking a way to quit dipping, and you found a way, but its different than dipping, why will that not do for dippers, yet smokers will try any method to quit smoking? I believe a dipper could take to portions, just like smokers can, if their intent is to still enjoy tobacco, but get off the dip. If thats all they had were portions, dippers would get used to portions quite easily I believe.

      Ok, off my soapbox now. lol. Didn't mean anything personal against anyone. I just never understood why portions just wont do for dippers. Thats all. Have a great weekend everyone.

      Comment

      • BuLLitz
        Member
        • Jun 2009
        • 180

        #48
        Comedy on Youtube.

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        • tom502
          Member
          • Feb 2009
          • 8985

          #49
          I think smokers are more inclined, because once they realize it's not dip, and if they want to quit or cut down on smoking, they see how easy and discreet it is. I think dippers are different, in a way, in that they already use oral tobacco, and like dipping, and I think to many, the idea of quitting dip, is really quitting tobacco, and another oral alternative may not be appealing(might as well dip), but really, what I see more and more, myself included, is people use snus, and other tobacco items as well. I've taken to loose leaf chew recently, have a chaw of Levi Garrett in now, and using my new Mudjug Spittoon I just got in the mail. And I will dip too, though I not much, I don't like the small cut, plus sometimes use nasal snuff. But I've quit smoking, and don't wanna do that again, but then, I've been curious about those new Djarum Clove cigars... so who knows?

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          • Bigblue1
            Banned Users
            • Dec 2008
            • 3923

            #50
            Dippers don't like bandits because their weak. If you educate dippers that they can get an extra strong portion that will deliver nicotine effectively they might be receptive. As far as TSNA's their is essentially no difference in the amount of TSNA's in todays dip and snus. It's a fact Jack. What you do want to tell them are the instant positives. Whether or not snus is more or less harmful than American Dip in the long run IDK. What I do know is that for whatever reason it appears to be less immediately irritating to my gums. But this too can be explained away by the amount of snus and frequency that i use it compared to how much and how often i use to dip. 1 can of cope a day or two compared to approximately 1.5 cans of snus a week. Also I use to get heartburn from dipping that I now no longer experience with snus.

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            • RRK
              Member
              • Sep 2009
              • 926

              #51
              Originally posted by chadizzy1
              I wish my damn auto-spell feature on the phone would quit replacing "snus" with "anus". It drives me nuts.
              When it suggests it click the x and it should stop replacing it.

              Comment

              • bsd777
                Member
                • Nov 2009
                • 261

                #52
                Originally posted by BadAxe
                Originally posted by bsd777
                Dippers aren't going to go for portions. Copenhagen is the number one choice for most, second would be skoal. They need los. Portions will not do
                If you were seeking a way to quit dipping...yet smokers will try any method to quit smoking? I believe a dipper could take to portions, just like smokers can, if their intent is to still enjoy tobacco, but get off the dip. If thats all they had were portions, dippers would get used to portions quite easily I believe.
                I see no reason anyone should be offended.

                I never WANTED to quit, but I found the prospect of having my jaw removed a little concerning. This might have been a little irrational, I don't know. But every dipper has seen the picture of that dude, or hears of someone who knows someone who had half their face removed. Every study I have ever read shows the TSNAs for Copenhagen and Skoal at 60 or 40 ppm vs Ettan at 2ppm. I'm not really good at math but by my calculations, using the best case scenario, US snuff is at least 20 TIMES more carcinogenic than snus.

                Most of us love snuff. We love the way it smells, the jolt and burn and the flavor. Contrast this with something I learned from another thread. Many snusers do not like the way snus smells? As a former dipper, I find this very odd. I'm guessing these are mainly the sissies using portions. :wink: Dippers love the smell. The first thing you ALWAYS did after opening a new can of Cope, was take a good look (hope it looks moist) and then whiff. You could tell by the look and the smell what you were in store for. I don't know how many times I bought a can that was only a week or two old, but was dry. Tired of buying dried out dip and trying to save money, I switched long ago to less expensive bands that came in plastic tins. But most of us, other than the few who prefer wintergreen, are looking for the same thing, something like Copenhagen. Then I started reading about TSNAs and took comfort in the fact that the cheap shit I used (sold by Swedish Match) had fairly low TSNAs (about 8ppm). But that's still four times as carcinogenic as snus. I wasn't sure I was going to like snus. Something you put in your upper lip and swallow? Sounds weird. But gave it a try and here I am.

                The ONLY downside to US snuff, from my perspective, is the threat of cancer and the fact that it is not always socially acceptable. Most of the time I couldn't care less about the latter. I was able to be fairly discrete. I never used the front lip. Not since I was 17. But you still have to spit, eventually. I know some who swallowed and I'd done it myself before, but but it's not pleasant. :idea: One more marketing thought, hunters! Do you know how many guys take an empty bottle with them up into a deer stand? Ah, if they only knew Grov...

                Have a great weekend.

                Comment

                • RRK
                  Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 926

                  #53
                  I wonder if they could just make a steam cured, pasteurized Copenhagen? As we learned from the guys at Gajane you can produce low tsna fermented snus so why not?

                  That would certainly be an easy thing to market and they wouldn't need to call it snus. And they could get around the reduced risk thing by listing the percentage tsna's.

                  Comment

                  • LaZeR
                    Member
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 3994

                    #54
                    Originally posted by chadizzy1
                    I wish my damn auto-spell feature on the phone would quit replacing "snus" with "anus". It drives me nuts.
                    NOw that is comedy, my man! :lol:

                    Comment

                    • lxskllr
                      Member
                      • Sep 2007
                      • 13435

                      #55
                      Originally posted by RRK
                      I wonder if they could just make a steam cured, pasteurized Copenhagen? As we learned from the guys at Gajane you can produce low tsna fermented snus so why not?

                      That would certainly be an easy thing to market and they wouldn't need to call it snus. And they could get around the reduced risk thing by listing the percentage tsna's.
                      That's been talked about before, and the leading thought is it would change the character too much. If you made Copenhagen like snus, it wouldn't be Copenhagen anymore. It wouldn't necessarily make a bad product, but it wouldn't be the old familiar dippers are used to.

                      Comment

                      • Bigblue1
                        Banned Users
                        • Dec 2008
                        • 3923

                        #56
                        [quote="bsd777"]
                        Originally posted by BadAxe
                        Originally posted by bsd777
                        Dippers aren't going to go for portions. Copenhagen is the number one choice for most, second would be skoal. They need los. Portions will not do

                        I never WANTED to quit, but I found the prospect of having my jaw removed a little concerning. This might have been a little irrational, I don't know. But every dipper has seen the picture of that dude, or hears of someone who knows someone who had half their face removed. Every study I have ever read shows the TSNAs for Copenhagen and Skoal at 60 or 40 ppm vs Ettan at 2ppm. I'm not really good at math but by my calculations, using the best case scenario, US snuff is at least 20 TIMES more carcinogenic than snus.

                        Most of us love snuff. We love the way it smells, the jolt and burn and the flavor. Contrast this with something I learned from another thread. Many snusers do not like the way snus smells? As a former dipper, I find this very odd. I'm guessing these are mainly the sissies using portions. :wink: Dippers love the smell. The first thing you ALWAYS did after opening a new can of Cope, was take a good look (hope it looks moist) and then whiff. You could tell by the look and the smell what you were in store for. I don't know how many times I bought a can that was only a week or two old, but was dry. Tired of buying dried out dip and trying to save money, I switched long ago to less expensive bands that came in plastic tins. But most of us, other than the few who prefer wintergreen, are looking for the same thing, something like Copenhagen. Then I started reading about TSNAs and took comfort in the fact that the cheap shit I used (sold by Swedish Match) had fairly low TSNAs (about 8ppm). But that's still four times as carcinogenic as snus. I wasn't sure I was going to like snus. Something you put in your upper lip and swallow? Sounds weird. But gave it a try and here I am.

                        The ONLY downside to US snuff, from my perspective, is the threat of cancer and the fact that it is not always socially acceptable. Most of the time I couldn't care less about the latter. I was able to be fairly discrete. I never used the front lip. Not since I was 17. But you still have to spit, eventually. I know some who swallowed and I'd done it myself before, but but it's not pleasant. :idea: One more marketing thought, hunters! Do you know how many guys take an empty bottle with them up into a deer stand? Ah, if they only knew Grov...

                        Have a great weekend.
                        sources please for the skoal and copenhagen having those levels of TSNA's
                        The most recent study I've found is http://cro.sagepub.com/cgi/content/full/15/5/252#T3
                        Check out section4 table 2 specifically you will see that skoal and copenhagen ar not that high
                        Now I'm not a math major either but to make the correlation that something with 8 ppm of tsna is 4 times more carcinogenic than something with 2 ppm of tsna is just plain ridiculous.
                        I get the reason why everybody wants to demonize dip and exalt snus. We all don't want to think about the big C word that we here in the US were always told we were gonna get if we used dip. Well apparently that was a hoax probably one perpetuated by the PM and RJR long before they ever thought about acquiring all the US smokeless manufacturers under their corporate umbrellas. So take it easy guys snus, dip, Chew, snuff. It'll be okay

                        Comment

                        • RRK
                          Member
                          • Sep 2009
                          • 926

                          #57
                          Originally posted by lxskllr
                          That's been talked about before, and the leading thought is it would change the character too much. If you made Copenhagen like snus, it wouldn't be Copenhagen anymore. It wouldn't necessarily make a bad product, but it wouldn't be the old familiar dippers are used to.
                          You don't have to stop making the original Copenhagen and you could add some kind of thing to the name like SP (steam-cured pasteurized) and change the color of the label or call it Copenhagen Black or whatever they want. Just seems like it is an obvious answer for a lot of the ideas in this thread. They could even make pouches or Skoal SP bandits.

                          Comment

                          • Liandri
                            Member
                            • Jul 2009
                            • 604

                            #58
                            ITT: Appealing to minors 101

                            Comment

                            • fdknuckles
                              Member
                              • Jan 2010
                              • 169

                              #59
                              Originally posted by chadizzy1
                              I wish my damn auto-spell feature on the phone would quit replacing "snus" with "anus". It drives me nuts.
                              :lol:

                              Comment

                              • lxskllr
                                Member
                                • Sep 2007
                                • 13435

                                #60
                                Originally posted by RRK
                                Originally posted by lxskllr
                                That's been talked about before, and the leading thought is it would change the character too much. If you made Copenhagen like snus, it wouldn't be Copenhagen anymore. It wouldn't necessarily make a bad product, but it wouldn't be the old familiar dippers are used to.
                                You don't have to stop making the original Copenhagen and you could add some kind of thing to the name like SP (steam-cured pasteurized) and change the color of the label or call it Copenhagen Black or whatever they want. Just seems like it is an obvious answer for a lot of the ideas in this thread. They could even make pouches or Skoal SP bandits.
                                Oh, yea. I think an extension of the line would be totally doable. They already have wintergreen. I'm not sure wth they were thinking with that. Maybe Copenhagen Luscious Mint will be next :^D

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