New York City Stupidity

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  • justintempler
    Member
    • Nov 2008
    • 3090

    #1

    New York City Stupidity

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...ZQHnOSO6cGVvAL

    Council votes to boost butts
    By JEFF STIER
    Last Updated: 11:21 AM, October 16, 2009
    Posted: 1:19 AM, October 16, 2009

    THE City Council this week voted 46-1 to ban many flavorings in a variety of tobacco products, and Mayor Bloomberg is likely to sign it into law. Speaker Christine Quinn justified it as an effort to protect children -- but the main effect will be to make it harder for adult smokers to quit.

    The ban also covers many flavors of snus -- a smokeless, and thus far less harmful, tobacco.

    Snus is a pouch of tobacco that goes between cheek and gum, delivering the nicotine that smokers crave without the harmful chemicals that come from burning and inhaling tobacco. The risk of oral cancer from smokeless tobacco is low -- far lower than the oral cancer risk from smoking cigarettes.

    And switching from cigarettes to snus eliminates the risk of heart disease, lung cancer and the other systemic diseases related to smoking -- not to mention secondhand smoke.

    Still, Council Health Committee Chairman Joel Rivera lauded the bill: "This legislation is a major step forward in protecting kids and deterring them from starting a lethal habit."

    But sales of all tobacco products to minors are already illegal. The city should enforce the law on the books rather than stymie adults' switch to a less harmful product.

    Ironically, the city ban exempts flavored hookah tobacco and menthol -- both of which are popular among younger tobacco users and which, unlike the banned flavored snus, have no redeeming public-health value. They certainly don't help people quit cigarettes.

    New York City is not alone in banning the wrong products. Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal recently called for a ban on e-cigarettes.

    E-cigarettes are devices that supply users with vaporized nicotine and look like cigarettes. They contain no tobacco and are noncombustible, eliminating almost all smoking risks. They could be a lifesaver; the only reason to crack down is the ideology of the public-health movement, which has decided that anything that has tobacco in it, or even looks like a cigarette, must be illegal, even for sale to adult smokers trying to stop smoking.

    The pollyannas behind this approach believe that no level of risk is acceptable. Elizabeth Kilgore, acting assistant commissioner of tobacco control at the NYC Department of Health, says smokers who have tried to quit but failed should just keep on trying again and again rather than try snus or e-cigarettes.

    It is a quit-or-die dogma that evades logic.

    The federal government is getting into the act as well. The Food and Drug Administration, now tasked with regulating tobacco, in July warned about tiny levels of carcinogens in e-cigarettes, telling smokers to stay away -- in effect telling them to stick with deadly cigarettes.

    These government actions will do nothing to protect kids. The only effect is to promote the most dangerous form of tobacco use, smoking cigarettes.

    If the advocates get their way, the only thing addicted smokers will be able to buy are mostly ineffective nicotine gums and patches -- and, of course, cigarettes.

    Jeff Stier is an associate director of the American Council on Science and Health .
  • tom502
    Member
    • Feb 2009
    • 8985

    #2
    Soon all we'll be able to buy is Victory brand non-filters.

    Comment

    • aj01
      Member
      • Jan 2008
      • 149

      #3
      NYC

      The legislation applies to "chewing tobacco" which technically would only be those tobacco products like Red Man and Beech Nut leaf products. It did not refer to 'oral tobacco,' 'moist,' or 'oral' snuff.

      It is still ridiculous, and someone up top will probably not notice the difference.

      And one thing still holds true: Cigarettes win.

      Comment

      • snusjus
        Member
        • Jun 2008
        • 2674

        #4
        But sales of all tobacco products to minors are already illegal. The city should enforce the law on the books rather than stymie adults' switch to a less harmful product.

        Amen to that! Tobacco is an adult product. Don't punish adult consumers because "some" kids may use it as well. Ironically, I don't think too many underage tobacco users even know what snus is. Even if they do, they want to show off their tobacco use in order to be rebellious. Snus is practically invisible, and won't appeal to the "rebel" teenage crowd; young hipsters will stick to their unflavored Camel Lights and American Spirit cigarettes.

        Comment

        • RRK
          Member
          • Sep 2009
          • 926

          #5
          Lets outlaw driving since some do it without a license. :wink:

          Comment

          • Asquar
            Member
            • Mar 2008
            • 256

            #6
            To employ Abbie Hoffman-style 60's hyperbole, these people are POLITICAL PIGS, and need to be resisted.

            Comment

            • dEFinitionofEPIC
              Member
              • Apr 2009
              • 146

              #7
              The New York Times reports:

              George Washington just rolled in his grave. He's trying to get out of his coffin so he can move his remains to a free country...

              Comment

              • Mullolley
                Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 213

                #8
                I don't personally like the Post, but a LOT of people read it. This article goes a long way to sway public opinion in favor of harm reduction products, not to mention there are many people who have never heard of either e-cigs or snus. The fact is, most people just don't have access to the truth about these products in the media. The more smokers that move on to these types of products, the more evidence there will be that these work as a smoking cessation aid. In the long run, that won't be good for snus prices, but if it can educate and turn the public against the fearmongerers and give smokers an option to improve their health without hurting anyone, it's good in my book to get the truth out. Good find.

                Comment

                • elmos
                  Member
                  • May 2009
                  • 84

                  #9
                  Now you got me mad

                  The bastards are hypocrites. It was the black caucuas who intervened to allow menthol cigerettes. Cigars were not touched because thats what these hypocrites smoke to show they are the elite. They want to tax pipes. Dont these idiots know that if you want a classy dope pipe you go into the plumbing section of a hardware store and buy some fixtures? A friend bought the e cig. He tried everything else. Of course the drug companies do not own a piece of the action, hence the ban. The swedish FDA checked out snus, maybe these fools cannot read. I payed taxes for forty six years. I don't have health insurance. Lets put a tax on stupidity, I know where we could start to collect. I thank this congress and senate (and white house) They have opened my eyes. I simply believe nothing they say. Snus helped me quit smoking. The patch did not work, They gum did not work. The pills did not work, I have been cigarette free for six months. No thanks to the drug companies. Kids, kids, kids, the education starts at home. By the way, SG Koop was a pipesmoker. My only question is simply this. Don't we count? I bet when you tour washington you need a barf bag. I apoligize for this rant, but I am sick of these idiots thinking they know whats best for us. (prohibition anyone?) They make me sick. Or at least one little one does.
                  KEEP SNUSING!

                  Comment

                  • Owens187
                    Member
                    • Sep 2009
                    • 1547

                    #10
                    Thats about the dumbest sh*t Ive ever heard. Is this something we should all fear now that the FDA has its hands in our tobacco?

                    Comment

                    • chossy
                      Member
                      • Jul 2009
                      • 242

                      #11
                      I would like to know what counts as flavored snus, as pretty much every brand has something in it.
                      Oh well atleast there´s no ban in sight where I live.

                      Comment

                      • MasterGuns
                        Member
                        • Jun 2009
                        • 312

                        #12
                        Thank god I live in a red state. Course that won't count for much soon. It's all about paternalism, protecting people from themselves. Tobacco makes an easy target.

                        Comment

                        • skruf_mcgruff
                          Member
                          • Mar 2008
                          • 267

                          #13
                          I can't figure this out. Is it too scary to admit we don't know how to teach people to raise their kids, and somehow taking away flavors from adults will help? When I was in school, all the young smokers were all stealing menthols from their moms anyway, not buying more expensive cloves or lingonberry snus.

                          I don't mean to insult anyone, but I do believe if you did some surveys you'd see that the real problem of kids smoking is typically passed down from their lower class parents who simply don't care enough to not smoke in the house when raising kids.

                          I rarely snus and when I do I buy from northerner, so this doesn't even really upset me other than the message it sends.

                          Comment

                          • Redbeard
                            Member
                            • Sep 2009
                            • 390

                            #14
                            Originally posted by skruf_mcgruff
                            I can't figure this out. Is it too scary to admit we don't know how to teach people to raise their kids, and somehow taking away flavors from adults will help? When I was in school, all the young smokers were all stealing menthols from their moms anyway, not buying more expensive cloves or lingonberry snus.

                            I don't mean to insult anyone, but I do believe if you did some surveys you'd see that the real problem of kids smoking is typically passed down from their lower class parents who simply don't care enough to not smoke in the house when raising kids.

                            I rarely snus and when I do I buy from northerner, so this doesn't even really upset me other than the message it sends.
                            You've hit the nail on the head. Too many parents can't be bothered to actually parent, so some feel the need to parent everyone, whether they need it or not. Combined with the near-religious fanaticism of the anti-tobacco movement and Big Tobacco's desire to stomp out all competition, you get measures like this one. Truth, facts, and harm reduction are inconvenient and thus ignored. :roll:

                            Comment

                            • lxskllr
                              Member
                              • Sep 2007
                              • 13435

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Owens187
                              Thats about the dumbest sh*t Ive ever heard. Is this something we should all fear now that the FDA has its hands in our tobacco?
                              Yes....

                              Comment

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