C-Span2 today at 2pm

[chadizzy1]

look:
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cf...s-000003141184

but i want to note:
The new oversight would be funded by user fees on tobacco companies and importers, likely causing an increase in the price of cigarettes and other tobacco product.

so a new department funded by the importing of tobacco. doesn't sound like this is going to shut down snus importing.

let me restate. see above. importing tobacco will pay for the funding of their department. i DO believe however we will have to begin paying taxes on the importing of snus.

[sagedil]

Still. The way all laws work, folks will challenge it, the courts will get involved, LONG time before I think we see anything that really can hurt us. I have zero desire to run around today in a panic, and especially think it's silly to think I suddenly have to rush and stock up.

Besides, banning import may just mean that SM can't import them for sale here. Private purchase is another story. Same thing with the EU ban. Snus can't be imported for sale but private citizens can still buy from Sweden.

[SnusinUsa]

look:
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cf...s-000003141184

but i want to note:
The new oversight would be funded by user fees on tobacco companies and importers, likely causing an increase in the price of cigarettes and other tobacco product.

so a new department funded by the importing of tobacco. doesn't sound like this is going to shut down snus importing.

let me restate. see above. importing tobacco will pay for the funding of their department. i DO believe however we will have to begin paying taxes on the importing of snus.

The legislation allocates payment of all tobacco product-related FDA costs among the manufacturers of cigarettes, cigarette tobacco and smokeless tobacco products sold in the United States, based on the manufacturers’ respective shares of the entire U.S. tobacco product market.

[Norex]

Well the petition is up LETS GET AS MANY PPL AS WE CAN AND SHOW OUR GOVERNMENT OUR SENTIMENTS...

SAVESNUS.com

More comming soon to the site!!!

[HK11]

Im so out of touch. I thought this WAS the pact act vote. Well at least I got a sweet order.

[Snusdogg]

I'm sure Waxman and Kennedy both sprayed their shorts when the final vote came in. **** all of them. I'm done with voting for any polititian. They're all assholes.

[sagedil]

In case anyone is interested in the details, here is the House version...

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc110/h1108_ih.xml

[Lucky Striker]

All the people running around with their fingers in their ears going "Na na na na- I'm not worried" seriously needs to read the Senate bill in its entirety. If you really think everything is going to be OK you're not reading what I've read.

[Qor]

Yeesh.

Well, I am order a few rolls tomorrow for sure. Once we find out more concrete information I will be ordering a massive amount. Until then, I am just going to enjoy snus and not worry too much about it.

-Qor

[TropicalBob]

It's not exactly Apocalypse Now, but LuckyStriker is right. This is nothing to "chill" about. Everything I do -- snus, dissolvables, nasal snuff and e-cigs -- are affected, and, if we believe Sen. Richard Burr, are doomed to a ban.

Not all, but many that can't meet the "sold before" Feb. 7, 2007, date in the bill.

[spirit72]

Just to recap:

-This one has NO effect on shipping or availability. It gives the FDA regulatory power over tobacco, which it did not have previously. Again, much of the authority the FDA will now have over tobacco is the same authority that the Swedish government has over tobacco, which we have not necessarily seen as a Bad Thing.

-As the bill currently reads, the ban on flavors applies only to cigarettes.

-Camel Orbs and Sticks will eventually be going away. If you wanted to try them, do so in the near future.

-House still has to pass the Senate version(given), and Obama has to sign it(given)

-RJR has already said publicly that they do not support the bill, as they believe it unfairly favors PM and will make it difficult for other companies to compete in the US. Expect to see RJR and others challenge this in Federal Court as soon as Obama signs it.

[spirit72]

Still. The way all laws work, folks will challenge it, the courts will get involved, LONG time before I think we see anything that really can hurt us.

EXACTLY. The Supreme Court had to rule against FDA regulation of tobacco under existing law several years ago. That being the case, you can be absolutely certain that this one will end up on their docket as well.

[sagedil]

Basically, my read on it as well. I have studied the house version, not the Senate version, but everything I read says they are very close to each other.

I think it will be a long time before the courts are through with this. BIG money lawyers will absolutely be involved. There was a reason why PM was backing this bill, it absolutely screws other companies and they will NOT take it lying down.

Regardless, nothing in this bill will impact Swedish snus per se. The PACT bill is potentially far more troubling for us..

But maybe not

Here is the executive Summary of the PACT Bill

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

H.R. 1676 would create new requirements and regulations on companies that sell and ship tobacco products (specifically, cigarettes and smokeless tobacco) through the mail to consumers.

Shipping and Labeling: Under the bill, companies that ship tobacco products must not sell or ship for single delivery any tobacco product weighing more than ten pounds. Also, the bill would require that every package containing tobacco products be clearly labeled with the statement:

"CIGRAETTES/SMOKELESS TOBACCO: FEDERAL LAW REQUIRES THE PAYMENT OF ALL APPLICABLE EXCISE TAXES, AND COMPLIANCE WITH APPLICABLE LICENSING AND TAX-STAMPING OBLIGATIONS."

Tobacco products that do not have this labeling would be considered non-deliverable.

Age Verification and Records of Sale: Additionally, the bill would require that all companies who mail tobacco products obtain the name, birthday, and address of anyone placing a mail order for tobacco. This information would be kept in a database by the seller for four years and is to be available to all Federal, State, and Tribal authorities for compliance verification.

The bill would also require companies to use delivery methods that verify all persons accepting the delivery of tobacco products are of the minimum age required for the legal purchase of tobacco by providing government identification and signature.

List of Unregistered or Non-compliant Delivery Tobacco Sellers: H.R. 1676 would require all tobacco delivery companies to register with the U.S. Attorney General within ninety days of this bill's enactment and requires the Attorney General to compile a list of those companies that have not registered or are not in compliance with the provisions of this bill. These companies are to be notified of their inclusion on the non-compliance list.

Taxes: H.R. 1676 would require tobacco delivery companies to charge applicable Federal, State, or local taxes on tobacco products prior to shipping.

Penalties: Tobacco delivery companies found to be in violation of any of the provision of H.R. 1676 will not be subject to civil penalties. Penalties are to be the greater of: 1) two percent of the gross cigarette or smokeless tobacco receipts for the year prior to the date of violation; or 2) $5,000 for a first violation or $10,000 for any other. Common carriers or independent delivery services that are found to enforce effective policies in compliance with this bill will be subject to penalties.

http://www.gop.gov/bill/111/1/hr1676

Here is the actual Bill

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h111-1676


Reality, all this means is that, as far as I can tell, Northerner or such would now have to start collecting the appropriate tax for any jurisdiction they sell to. And proof of age must be shown upon delivery, so maybe just FedEx or UPS set up for that?? But nowhere does it say the Postal Service CAN'T deliver it, as many folks have said.

So snus may get a bit, or even more than a bit more expensive. But I see nothing that says I CAN'T get it anymore, even if this passes

[Lucky Striker]

Just to recap:


-As the bill currently reads, the ban on flavors applies only to cigarettes.

That's in section one paragraph one of 902 or 907- I forget which. If you skip down to sections two and three, the Secretary has the right to apply the same "cigarette only" flavor bans to ALL tobacco if he/she sees fit. So yes, THE FLAVOR BAN APPLIES TO ALL SNUS, IMPORTED OR DOMESTIC.

[Kvlt]

Goddamn it, taxes. Now us snus users have to pay Obamas tobacco tax.

Shall we have a Tobacco Party? Hopefully RJR takes this to the Supreme Court.