The Next generation of American Snus

[snusjus]

I agree but it also seems like the American tobacco companies are trying to reinvent the wheel in that there is a good product out there already. If they could get over politics and egos they could import Swedish snus here and re-brand it with their name. I also think that the tobacco companies were trying to kill the future of Swedish, not American made snus, when they sponsored the PACT Act.

Agreed. I think PM and RJR need to hire Swedish Match to make snus for them; Lorillard did this with the now defunct Triumph Snus. Hell, I wouldn't mind PM having Swedish Match put Grov Portions into a Copenhagen Snus can.

[lxskllr]

I agree but it also seems like the American tobacco companies are trying to reinvent the wheel in that there is a good product out there already. If they could get over politics and egos they could import Swedish snus here and re-brand it with their name. I also think that the tobacco companies were trying to kill the future of Swedish, not American made snus, when they sponsored the PACT Act.

The big mystery is why they keep screwing it up. These guys are pros, or at least I'm assuming they are. I don't know why they haven't made a General clone. They should be able to get very close with gas spectrometry, and then tweak it a little bit to make it their own. I'm not a huge fan of General, but you could do much worse(and they have) for an American snus product.

[Ephemeris]

Sadly, most Americans don't like Swedish snus, at least at first. According to every study and test panel that American Big Tobacco has ever done, the average US smoker that tries a brand like General hates it. Typical comments are "it's too salty" or "it has so much nicotine in it that it gives me a headrush." So they push out weak, sweet "snus" that the average American will at least tolerate for the times when they aren't able to smoke.

The problem is that they're not looking at snus from the point of view of a snus company. They're looking at it like typical cigarette companies. Swedish Match, in a broad sense, doesn't care if you think that their snus is too salty. 50 million other customers love it.

RJR and PM don't have that kind of faith in their product. They want something that the people will buy now occasionally and not have it cut into their cigarette sales too closely. RJR doesn't want to sell Camel Frost 30 years from now; they want to still be selling Camel cigarettes. So they're approaching everything with a short-term market in mind.

If they were to seriously embrace snus as the wave of the future, they would put out a product with a flavor like General that has had two centuries worth of loyal customers, and gradually educate Americans as to what real snus is and let Americans discover it on their own. Of course, they wouldn't see a return on this investment for a few years, but it's not as if Big Tobacco is strapped for cash, either.

As it stands, the typical Camel or Marlboro snus user does not stay with it for long. They either go back to cigarettes or discover Swedish snus. We know this now because American snus has been on the market long enough to gauge a response, and nine tenths of Camel snusers purchase Camel snus "occasionally" or when they have a coupon for it, or when they anticipate being in a situation where they won't be able to smoke. Almost no one has switched over to American snus and "stuck with it" for longer than a few months.

Compare that to the thousands of Americans who have completely switched over to Swedish snus. It would appear that the Scandinavians are doing something right, and the Americans are clueless about the whole thing. I'm happy that General snus is popping up in stores all over the country, but I would be even happier if I could go into any gas station in the USA and be able to purchase a Camel or Marlboro snus that even remotely resembles the real stuff. It doesn't even have to be perfect- as long as it was more salty than sweet and contained enough nicotine to satisfy an infant, I would be stoked.

[Rattlesnake]

I continued to smoke until I got some genuine Swedish Snus. When I got the Ettan I haven't smoked since. I don't care what American big tobacco comes up with, as long as I can get Genuine Swedish Snus. I tried some American Dip, campared I am not impressed. I smoked Camel for 35 years and quit with Swedish Snus in one attempt and I am loving it. I would not use what big tobacco comes up with if they gave it away. Swedish Snus is a better product, period. That is my story and I am sticking to it.

PS yes I had tried everything on the market to Quit until I was introduced to Swedish Snus.

[GoVegan]

I continued to smoke until I got some genuine Swedish Snus. When I got the Ettan I haven't smoked since. I don't care what American big tobacco comes up with, as long as I can get Genuine Swedish Snus. I tried some American Dip, campared I am not impressed. I smoked Camel for 35 years and quit with Swedish Snus in one attempt and I am loving it. I would not use what big tobacco comes up with if they gave it away. Swedish Snus is a better product, period. That is my story and I am sticking to it.

PS yes I had tried everything on the market to Quit until I was introduced to Swedish Snus.

Hey I still have 2 boxes of Commit lozenges sitting on my shelf but I am sure that they are way beyond the expiration date.

[Darwin]

Some astute observations there Ephemeris. I'll add that RJR's and Altria's target markets are in the main smokers and not current users of smokeless tobacco. I would guess the great majority of smokers do not really know what tobacco really tastes like if it is not inhaled as smoke. I certainly did not when I started using snus but now tend to like more tobacco and less artificially flavored snuses. I had no idea what to expect at first and was put off initially by a lot of snus flavors that I came to like over time. But I, and virtually everyone on this forum was highly motivated to quit smoking and were eager to try something that promised nicotine delivery in a healthy and enjoyable way. So far, for the most part, American snuses do the job for which they were intended but not the job that we here are seeking to get done. You're absolutely right that if Camel or Marlboro initiated their product line with bergamot flavored snuses they would have been an abject failure. This is a classic chicken/egg situation from which there seems to be little hope of escape for American manufacturers.

Even the scandinavians aiming product at the U.S. are doing so in large part with flavors supposedly friendly to American palates. The one exception I can think of at present is Jak's Classic Strong which does in fact have a pronounced tobacco taste, and which I like, but there aren't that many in this category. If RJR or Altria came out with product that really had 12-14mg of available nicotine and was amenable flavor-wise to current snus users then likely most on this forum would buy it but would that even be a small blip on their sales charts? RJR/Altria have cracked the door open a bit and seem to be gradually retooling their products to appeal to more "sophisticated" users but it will take a long time to reach sales levels that rival current smokeless numbers let alone cigarette usage. Our patience is in short supply but even the supposedly all-powerful Big Tobacco boogeyman can't make things happen overnight. For them to have initially offered a clone of General would have almost guaranteed failure in the sales terms that these big corporations in any way count as promising. So minty and sweet it is and will be for quite a while yet I presume.

[Rattlesnake]

Commit lozenges= dizzy, sore throat, hicchups, didn't work
chewing gum= hicchups, expensive, didn't work
That rx pill that causes sizzures= scared the hell out of me, didn't work
I have no explaination why but with Swedish recepie--- Genuine Snus it worked and I am grateful, to it and this forum for the support.

[lxskllr]

I dunno Darwin. You may be right, but I came to snus from a completely different direction. When I started, I had no intention of quitting smoking. I tried it to try a different tobacco product, and quitting smoking just sort of happened. I can accept that I'm in the minority, but I doubt I'm alone in the country.

Personally, I'd market American snus the way the Swedes do. Position it as a sophisticated, high end product, and get people intrigued about it. Load the tobacco shops with information, and keep it as far from the dip persona as possible. Like it or GTFO. Make the customer feel like the asshole if they don't like it. This is a superior product, and if they don't like it, there's something wrong with the user. Create the image, and customers will follow. Maybe not right away, but eventually. Cigars have had a resurgence over the last bunch of years. They taste strong, and they stink, yet the customers keep coming, even women. If cigars can do it, so can snus.

[GoVegan]

Kind of like the XX most interesting man commercial. I don't use tobacco often but when I do, I use Swedish snus.

[Darwin]

General's recent marketing push has attempted to position snus as a product appealing to "youts" with money to spend in urban areas but only they know how successful it has been. It hasn't gone "viral" as far as I can tell but it might work in the fullness of time. Maybe snus doesn't really cost enough to allow it to be marketed as an upscale commodity in the same sense cigars are these days. Heck some single high end cigars cost as much a a month's worth of snus in many cases so any upscale snob appeal is going to be rather thin for snus. Now the quality of the product, offshore product at least, is not in doubt, for us, but the moneyed hipster cachet isn't there yet, if it ever will be. Just as it's true that we came to snus from many directions it is equally true that even if there are ten snus users for every forum member financially the market is small taters by big terbaccy standards. I can't think of any promotional magic bullet that is going to hugely accelerate acceptance of our beloved product however adoring and/or messianic we all are about it. As so many have related here our successes in "converting" smokers over to snus have been spotty, to put it charitably, which tells me that time and patience will be required. And like so many I hate having to exercise patience.

[Jwalker]

I think snus is already too expensive and I'm an urban youth. It's like 9 bucks for under half an ounce of tobacco (snus is only 35-40 percent tobacco the rest being water and other stuff mostly preservatives and salt) unless you buy loose which makes it 7 dollars or so. On the other hand when I first started using snus it comes down to depending on where you live or where you buy your spending maybe 20-50 cents per pouch.

[roisterer]

Skoal Snus available January 01, 2011

We're bringing the Skoal Snus into the gas station I work at beginning the first of the year, at that point pics will be posted and I'll tell ya what I think. I've heard it's going to be simply the Marlboro Snus from the paper packs repackaged(this from their competitor, R.J.R.) Suppose we'll see folks. I purchase my General from the local tobbaconist/cigar shop normally.

By the by, first time poster... so greetings and all that.

[Crow]

Welcome aboard, roisterer!

I'll be sure to try out the Skoal & New Marlboro Snus when I get the chance.

[Jwalker]

NEW marlboro snus lol. Maybe it will cost 10 bucks for 15 slightly larger pouches and that will be a "bargain", I'll have to give skoal snus a try though mint and smooth mint doesn't sound like it will be dry and nasty.

[tom502]

Has anyone gotten the new Marlboro Red snus yet?