Snus, Gum Pockets & Gum Disease

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  • mwood72

    Snus, Gum Pockets & Gum Disease

    I've been Snusing for about a year now and was happy that I had got myself off the cigarettes and onto something I enjoyed even more and that wouldn't do me anywhere near as much harm. I had trouble with painful bleeding gums recently though and so I visited my dentist. As soon as she looked in my mouth she said "do you smoke?" I said no I use Snus though. She didn't know what it was but I tried to explain it to her. She then said I had 3 gingival pockets which turned out to be in the 3 places I place my Snus (I never told her where I placed it) and she went on to say I should stop using tobacco as this was the cause of my problem and that if I continued it would get worse and I might end up needing gum surgery! I was shocked and mistified!? I didin't think Snus was supposed to damage your health like that? She asked me about my oral hygeine but I was already doing what she suggested each day eg. brushing twice a day, flossing and using a mouthwash. I'm really at a bit of a loss. Surely if Snus were this dangerous Sweden would have one of the highest gum disease rates in the world!? Meanwhile the only other options I have left is quiting Nicotine altogether or using NRT both of which don't really appeal to me at all Has anyone else been affected like this? I live in hope someone might have a magical answer out there as to what I might be doing wrong to be affected like this by Snus so that I can put it right and carry on with one of my biggest pleasures in life.
  • The Cook
    Member
    • Aug 2007
    • 166

    #2
    Hi mwood72 - I'm really sorry to hear about your gum woes. Can you get Orabase at your local chemist's? Perhaps it is sold under a different brand name in the UK. It's an ointment that's good for in-the-mouth sores and cankers and might be worth a go.

    Best of luck, it would be a sad day if you have to give up snus.

    Comment

    • lxskllr
      Member
      • Sep 2007
      • 13435

      #3
      I don't have any information for you, but the gum problem does concern me. That aspect of snus use seems to be glossed over in the health discussions of snus. Everybody's fixated on cancer, but I consider oral health to be just as important. I'm not sure that losing your teeth is that much better than getting cancer. I haven't had any problems so far, but I've only been using snus for a month or so. I'll look around online for some info, and report back if I find anything good. I'd really like to find out what component in tobacco causes gum recession. I hope you can get your issues worked out. Maybe in the meantime try switching places more often, and add some new snus locations.

      Edit:
      Here is an article from Swedish Match that I found previously http://www.gothiatek.com/templates/s...spx?page_id=74
      My problem with this is that the studies may have been cherry picked to be in the tobacco companies favor. That could very well be unfounded, but I don't really trust corporations of any kind, particularly ones with a track record like the tobacco companies have.

      Comment

      • mwood72

        #4
        Originally posted by The Cook
        Hi mwood72 - I'm really sorry to hear about your gum woes. Can you get Orabase at your local chemist's? Perhaps it is sold under a different brand name in the UK. It's an ointment that's good for in-the-mouth sores and cankers and might be worth a go.

        Best of luck, it would be a sad day if you have to give up snus.
        Hi there. Thanks for replying. Yes we do have Orabase in the UK. I remember using it for the occasional painful mouth ulcer in the past and it was really good for that. I wasn't aware it was used for gum problems as well?

        Comment

        • mwood72

          #5
          Originally posted by lxskllr
          I don't have any information for you, but the gum problem does concern me. That aspect of snus use seems to be glossed over in the health discussions of snus. Everybody's fixated on cancer, but I consider oral health to be just as important. I'm not sure that losing your teeth is that much better than getting cancer. I haven't had any problems so far, but I've only been using snus for a month or so. I'll look around online for some info, and report back if I find anything good. I'd really like to find out what component in tobacco causes gum recession. I hope you can get your issues worked out. Maybe in the meantime try switching places more often, and add some new snus locations.

          Edit:
          Here is an article from Swedish Match that I found previously http://www.gothiatek.com/templates/s...spx?page_id=74
          My problem with this is that the studies may have been cherry picked to be in the tobacco companies favor. That could very well be unfounded, but I don't really trust corporations of any kind, particularly ones with a track record like the tobacco companies have.
          Hi there. Thanks for replying. I agree the effects of Snus on the gums does seem to have been glossed over in the studies done and the main claim being made seems to be there is no link between Snus use and cancer of the mouth. The prospect of loosing your teeth is indeed frightening. Maybe I've done myself no favours always alternating between the same 3 Snus places. I must admit I'm guility to favouring top middle too as I always found I absorbed more Nictoine that way. I guess I could try to use lots of slightly different places from top left to right. Possibly bottom too although I don't know if anyone uses Snus that way? My worry then would be though whether I might end up with even more gingival pockets? I guess I'm just a bit freaked at the moment. What really amazes me is I never had these kind of problems when I was smoking but I guess it was my lungs that were taking the punishment then and you wouldn't know about that unless you got really sick.

          Comment

          • chainsnuser
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2007
            • 1388

            #6
            Hi mwood72,

            there's no doubt for me, that placing a portion of snus on your gums all the time, can't be good for you gums.

            What I do, is to alternate all the time between loose and portions and to always switch sides, I also put a single portion from one side to the other with my tongue, and I mostly stopped to use white portions. Some brands only come in white portions and sometimes I try a new 'white' brand, but, so far, I haven't found a 'buy by the roll-favorite' among them. I believe, that white portions are useless, regarding taste, and they just feel bad on the gums. They surely promote gum-problems.
            In addition, I use chewing tobacco (Oliver Twist Original, Grimm & Triepel Kruse and Piccanell Original) sometimes. It can be placed in the upper lip, like snus, but it's even more convenient in the lower lip or cheek, so my upper gums get not stressed all the time.
            I even plan to give nasal snuff a try again, sooner or later. There's no doubt, that you can't get a reasonable nicotine-fix from it, but many people like it and I think, that it could be a pleasing alternation, at least for some hours.
            My smokeless-tobacco-usage-pattern mainly reflects the way, I feel most comfortable with it, it's not a result of health concerns or any propaganda, but so far, I have no problems with my gums and teeth.

            Smoking, of course, is no alternative, because the smoke is, overall, much worse for your teeth and gums, and - unlike snus - the chance of getting cancer is more than just a statistical, nearly unmeasurable 'blur', it's indeed almost sure.

            Nicotine-gums are no alternative as well. The last time, I visited my dentist, was because nicotine-gums had destroyed some of my fillings. That was, before I knew snus. Not to mention, that this crap doesn't contain enough nicotine. Patches could work, but I don't believe so and I haven't tried them. Besides, all this medical nicotine-stuff is just far too overpriced. If governments and health-professionals really would want anyone to stop smoking, then they would promote better and cheaper medical replacements. That stuff is just a waste of money IMHO.

            Quitting, at least for me, is also no real alternative. I'm mainly just a nicotine-addict, but I also believe, that nicotine gives some real benefits.

            So again, I don't have any doubt, that snus can harm your gums and changing your usage-pattern could be a way to prevent this.

            I hope, that my thoughts are of any use, and I'm sure, you'll find the best way for yourself.

            Good luck!

            Comment

            • The Cook
              Member
              • Aug 2007
              • 166

              #7
              Check out this site, it maybe useful for you: http://www.peri-gum.com/index.htm

              Comment

              • Zero
                Member
                • May 2006
                • 1522

                #8
                Well, I wouldn't say we gloss over the issue. It has been brought up in a number of threads and I've posted research articles on the topic.

                http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=769

                But yes, incidence of gingival recessions are increased among snus users, but primarily only among loose users. Portion users had only about a 2% increase in incidence over that of non-snusers, so switching to portions and a different location may be an option in the interim.

                It could be that the recessions are promoted by something deficient in your diet at well - lack of Vitamin C being the most prominent one I can think of. If you're a meat and potatoes man it's a strong possibility.

                Comment

                • mwood72

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Zero
                  Well, I wouldn't say we gloss over the issue. It has been brought up in a number of threads and I've posted research articles on the topic.

                  http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=769

                  But yes, incidence of gingival recessions are increased among snus users, but primarily only among loose users. Portion users had only about a 2% increase in incidence over that of non-snusers, so switching to portions and a different location may be an option in the interim.

                  It could be that the recessions are promoted by something deficient in your diet at well - lack of Vitamin C being the most prominent one I can think of. If you're a meat and potatoes man it's a strong possibility.
                  Hi Zero - When I mentioned about the subject being glossed over I was thinking more about the Gothiatek website rather than SnusOn. I didn't feel Swedish Match went into the subject much. Mind you I would imagine they would only talk a lot about the really positive points about Snus (of which there are a lot) I haven't actually used loose. When I started Snusing I used white portions but then went on to brown portions as I enjoyed them more. I take 500mg of Vitamin C daily as I heard that it helps to compensate for how Nicotine slighltly depresses your immune system. From what I've read so far in the replies to my post I'm starting to think I might not be in this position if I had varied my Snus positions much more and not just stuck to the same 3....

                  Comment

                  • mwood72

                    #10
                    Originally posted by The Cook
                    Check out this site, it maybe useful for you: http://www.peri-gum.com/index.htm
                    This sounds rather good - Thanks

                    Comment

                    • lxskllr
                      Member
                      • Sep 2007
                      • 13435

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Zero
                      Well, I wouldn't say we gloss over the issue. It has been brought up in a number of threads and I've posted research articles on the topic.

                      http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=769

                      But yes, incidence of gingival recessions are increased among snus users, but primarily only among loose users. Portion users had only about a 2% increase in incidence over that of non-snusers, so switching to portions and a different location may be an option in the interim.

                      It could be that the recessions are promoted by something deficient in your diet at well - lack of Vitamin C being the most prominent one I can think of. If you're a meat and potatoes man it's a strong possibility.
                      My comment wasn't really directed at this forum, or it's members. I'm more curious about the professional studies. I read that summary you put in the previous post, but one of my concerns with that is the small sample size. With as many people that use snus in Sweden, I would think somebody would have done a more encompassing study, and used a larger group.

                      Comment

                      • Craig de Tering
                        Member
                        • Nov 2006
                        • 525

                        #12
                        Originally posted by lxskllr
                        I would think somebody would have done a more encompassing study, and used a larger group.
                        Many (big-ass) studies have been done about snus in Sweden.
                        I've just sadly never bookmarked them for later reference.

                        Comment

                        • chainsnuser
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 1388

                          #13
                          www.gothiatek.com is the best online-source for snus-studies.
                          www.tobaccoharmreduction.org is also very informative.

                          Most studies are only presented as abstracts, of course, but should be available through public libraries.

                          My impression is, that, despite of tens of thousands of health-professionals, who mainly spread useless propaganda, real scientific studies are indeed, hard-to-find.

                          It's probably hard to earn public money with tobacco-research, exspecially if the outcomes of the research don't support the politically correct slogan, that "tobacco is 'evil' in any form or disguise".
                          It's maybe even hard to make money, if a study states, that tobacco is evil, but not as evil, as a previous study found out.
                          The tobacco-manufacturers can't make any health-claims anymore, so they're nearly out of the game, when it comes to finance scientific studies.

                          Just think about, how long we have been fooled about the marvelous features of spinach. Damn, I still belong to a genaration, that was forced to eat spinach. It took decades, till anyone was interested or had money, to revise the original study and to find out, that spinach is not better or worse for one's health than any other vegetable. The original spinach-study from the 1870's simply had some measurement errors. Today, it's probably the same with broccoli :lol: .

                          Cheers!

                          Comment

                          • mwood72

                            #14
                            Originally posted by chainsnuser
                            Hi mwood72,

                            there's no doubt for me, that placing a portion of snus on your gums all the time, can't be good for you gums.

                            What I do, is to alternate all the time between loose and portions and to always switch sides, I also put a single portion from one side to the other with my tongue, and I mostly stopped to use white portions. Some brands only come in white portions and sometimes I try a new 'white' brand, but, so far, I haven't found a 'buy by the roll-favorite' among them. I believe, that white portions are useless, regarding taste, and they just feel bad on the gums. They surely promote gum-problems.
                            In addition, I use chewing tobacco (Oliver Twist Original, Grimm & Triepel Kruse and Piccanell Original) sometimes. It can be placed in the upper lip, like snus, but it's even more convenient in the lower lip or cheek, so my upper gums get not stressed all the time.
                            I even plan to give nasal snuff a try again, sooner or later. There's no doubt, that you can't get a reasonable nicotine-fix from it, but many people like it and I think, that it could be a pleasing alternation, at least for some hours.
                            My smokeless-tobacco-usage-pattern mainly reflects the way, I feel most comfortable with it, it's not a result of health concerns or any propaganda, but so far, I have no problems with my gums and teeth.

                            Smoking, of course, is no alternative, because the smoke is, overall, much worse for your teeth and gums, and - unlike snus - the chance of getting cancer is more than just a statistical, nearly unmeasurable 'blur', it's indeed almost sure.

                            Nicotine-gums are no alternative as well. The last time, I visited my dentist, was because nicotine-gums had destroyed some of my fillings. That was, before I knew snus. Not to mention, that this crap doesn't contain enough nicotine. Patches could work, but I don't believe so and I haven't tried them. Besides, all this medical nicotine-stuff is just far too overpriced. If governments and health-professionals really would want anyone to stop smoking, then they would promote better and cheaper medical replacements. That stuff is just a waste of money IMHO.

                            Quitting, at least for me, is also no real alternative. I'm mainly just a nicotine-addict, but I also believe, that nicotine gives some real benefits.

                            So again, I don't have any doubt, that snus can harm your gums and changing your usage-pattern could be a way to prevent this.

                            I hope, that my thoughts are of any use, and I'm sure, you'll find the best way for yourself.

                            Good luck!
                            Chainsnuser - Thanks four detaild reply.I too couldn't imagine a life without Nictone when to me it has a use for just about every occasion in life - stress, depression, anxiety, relaxation, tiredness and/or where you really need to concentrate on a difficult task and just plain enjoyment. To summarise in your recommendations do you suggest using a mix of tobacco bits, portions and loose? I've never used loose. Would it be a good move to include that in my mix or to stick to portions and tobacco bits (bearing in mind my gum problems)? I did try the Oliver Twist chewing tobacco once from Northerner but found it gave me mouth ulcers. Maybe mixing the way you take your nicotine (eg Snus and tobacco bits) and where you place it is the key in that you alternate between stressing your mouth and gums and so not as much stress is put on particular places in your mouth?

                            Comment

                            • FatLip
                              Member
                              • Oct 2006
                              • 31

                              #15
                              Great Anti-GD product

                              I hereby declare that I am completely unaffiliated, nor do I stand to gain any advantage by this recommendation, but I have been using this for a couple of years now and it is really effective, so I can recommend that any snusser in need of help try OraMD:

                              https://www.trustedhealthproducts.co...145&cat=&page=

                              Brushing with this product does NOT do a job of whitening, so regular trips to the hygienist are still required, but its deadly to gum disease bacteria.

                              Comment

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