Why do people believe in conspiracy theories, or why does Tom exist...

[devilock76]

If they do, it better be some War Of The Worlds or HR Geiger type shit. I want to see some alien brutality, then get strapped up and put some caps in some otherworldly asses. I want to go out like Willam Dafoe in Platoon or Pacino in Scarface, but instead of the Viet Cong or thugs I'd be mowing down throngs of aliens while they tear me to bloody pieces.

I hate to say this, but I give the it is a hoax to control the people perpetuated by some secret organization infiltrating our government theory more credence than actual aliens.

Basically I have a hard time rationing why aliens would want to "come out" to us in such a manner. I mean they cross light years upon light years of space for what, we probably look like the Jerry Springer show to them.

Ken

[sgreger1]

I hate to say this, but I give the it is a hoax to control the people perpetuated by some secret organization infiltrating our government theory more credence than actual aliens.

Basically I have a hard time rationing why aliens would want to "come out" to us in such a manner. I mean they cross light years upon light years of space for what, we probably look like the Jerry Springer show to them.

Ken

Considering how apparently uncommon life is in the universe, I imagine them finding intelligent life, or complex life, would be quit n intiresting scientific find. I mean we send guys out to watch lions and caterpillars and shit and they aren't on our level. They are an interesting find none the less. Same with mars, we would send people there just for microbes!

But it does make some sense of why they don't talk to us. We don't try to talk to shit we observe in the jungle, we just assume it would be useless. Or maybe it's something else. But definately someone stumbling across earth, ripe with billions of species of life and a working atmosphere (and covered in water) would be an area of interest for any travelers who came across it.

[tom502]

I visited several official NASA websites to find HOW MANY PHOTOS WERE TAKEN on the surface of the Moon. Amazingly, NASA AVOIDS THIS SUBJECT almost entirely. Two days of searching documents and text were fruitless. But Lunar Surface Journal, one of the sites, lists every photo with its file number. So I undertook to make an actual count of every photo taken by astronauts DURING EXTRA-VEHICULAR ACTIVITY (EVA), the time spent on the surface out of the LEM.

Here is my actual count of EVA photos of the six missions:

Apollo 11........... 121
Apollo 12........... 504
Apollo 14........... 374
Apollo 15..........1021
Apollo 16..........1765
Apollo 17..........1986

So 12 astronauts while on the Moon's surface took a TOTAL of 5771 exposures.

That seemed excessively large to me, considering that their TIME on the lunar surface was limited, and the astronauts had MANY OTHER TASKS OTHER THAN PHOTOGRAPHY. So I returned to the Lunar Surface Journal to find how much TIME was available to do all the scientific tasks AS WELL AS PHOTOGRAPHY. Unlike the number of photos, this information is readily available:

Apollo 11........1 EVA .....2 hours, 31 minutes......(151 minutes)
Apollo 12........2 EVAs.....7 hours, 50 minutes......(470 minutes)
Apollo 14........2 EVAs.....9 hours, 25 minutes......(565 minutes)
Apollo 15........3 EVAs...18 hours, 30 minutes....(1110 minutes)
Apollo 16........3 EVAs...20 hours, 14 minutes....(1214 minutes)
Apollo 17........3 EVAs...22 hours, 04 minutes....(1324 minutes)

Total minutes on the Moon amounted to 4834 minutes.
Total number of photographs taken was 5771 photos.

Hmmmmm. That amounts to 1.19 photos taken EVERY MINUTE of time on the Moon, REGARDLESS OF OTHER ACTIVITIES. (That requires the taking of ONE PHOTO EVERY 50 SECONDS!) Let's look at those other activities to see how much time should be deducted from available photo time:

Apollo 11..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment, operate the TV camera (360 degree pan), establish contact with Earth (including ceremonial talk with President Nixon), unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages, find/document/collect 47.7 pounds of lunar rock samples, walk to various locations, conclude experiments, return to LEM.

Apollo 12..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment (spend time trying to fix faulty TV camera), establish contact with Earth, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages, walk to various locations, inspect the unmanned Surveyor 3 which had landed on the Moon in April 1967 and retrieve Surveyor parts. Deploy ALSEP package. Find/document/collect 75.7 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM.

Apollo 14..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment and establish contact with Earth, unpack and assemble hand cart to transport rocks, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages, walk to various locations. Find/document/collect 94.4 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM.

Apollo 15..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment and establish contact with Earth, unpack/assemble/equip and test the LRV electric-powered 4-wheel drive car and drive it 17 miles, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages (double the scientific payload of first three missions). Find/document/collect 169 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM. (The LRV travels only 8 mph*.)

Apollo 16..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment and establish contact with Earth, unpack/assemble/equip and test the LRV electric-powered 4-wheel drive car and drive it 16 miles, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages (double the scientific payload of first three missions, including new ultraviolet camera, operate the UV camera). Find/document/collect 208.3 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM. (The LRV travels only 8 mph*.)

Apollo 17..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment and establish contact with Earth, unpack/assemble/equip and test the LRV electric-powered 4-wheel drive car and drive it 30.5 miles, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages. Find/document/collect 243.1 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM. (The LRV travels only 8 mph*.)

Let's arbitrarily calculate a MINIMUM time for these tasks and subtract from available photo time:

Apollo 11....subtract 2 hours (120 minutes), leaving 031 minutes for taking photos
Apollo 12....subtract 4 hours (240 minutes), leaving 230 minutes for taking photos
Apollo 14....subtract 3 hours (180 minutes), leaving 385 minutes for taking photos
Apollo 15....subtract 6 hours (360 minutes), leaving 750 minutes for taking photos
Apollo 16....subtract 6 hours (360 minutes), leaving 854 minutes for taking photos
Apollo 17....subtract 8 hours (480 minutes), leaving 844 minutes for taking photos

So do the math:

Apollo 11.......121 photos in 031 minutes............3.90 photos per minute
Apollo 12.......504 photos in 230 minutes............2.19 photos per minute
Apollo 14.......374 photos in 385 minutes............0.97 photos per minute
Apollo 15.....1021 photos in 750 minutes............1.36 photos per minute
Apollo 16.....1765 photos in 854 minutes ...........2.06 photos per minute
Apollo 17.....1986 photos in 844 minutes ...........2.35 photos per minute

Or, to put it more simply:

Apollo 11........one photo every 15 seconds
Apollo 12........one photo every 27 seconds
Apollo 14........one photo every 62 seconds
Apollo 15........one photo every 44 seconds
Apollo 16........one photo every 29 seconds
Apollo 17........one photo every 26 seconds

So you decide. Given all the facts, was it possible to take that many photos in so short a time?

Any professional photographer will tell you it cannot be done. Virtually every photo was a different scene or in a different place, requiring travel. As much as 30 miles travel was required to reach some of the photo sites. Extra care had to be taken shooting some stereo pairs and panoramas. Each picture was taken without a viewfinder, using manual camera settings, with no automatic metering, while wearing a bulky spacesuit and stiff clumsy gloves.

The agency wants the world to believe that 5771 photographs were taken in 4834 minutes! IF NOTHING BUT PHOTOGRAPHY HAD BEEN DONE, such a feat is clearly impossible...made even more so by all the documented activities of the astronauts. Imagine...1.19 photos every minute that men were on the Moon –- that's one picture every 50 SECONDS!

The secret NASA tried to hide has been discovered: The quantity of photos purporting to record the Apollo lunar EVAs could not have been taken on the Moon in such an impossible time frame. So why do these photos exist? How did these photos get made? Did ANY men go to the Moon? Or was it truly the greatest hoax ever?

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm

[jamesstew]

I know what's going to happen tomorrow, nothing!

[jamesstew]

[devilock76]

I visited several official NASA websites to find HOW MANY PHOTOS WERE TAKEN on the surface of the Moon. Amazingly, NASA AVOIDS THIS SUBJECT almost entirely. Two days of searching documents and text were fruitless. But Lunar Surface Journal, one of the sites, lists every photo with its file number. So I undertook to make an actual count of every photo taken by astronauts DURING EXTRA-VEHICULAR ACTIVITY (EVA), the time spent on the surface out of the LEM.

Here is my actual count of EVA photos of the six missions:

Apollo 11........... 121
Apollo 12........... 504
Apollo 14........... 374
Apollo 15..........1021
Apollo 16..........1765
Apollo 17..........1986

So 12 astronauts while on the Moon's surface took a TOTAL of 5771 exposures.

That seemed excessively large to me, considering that their TIME on the lunar surface was limited, and the astronauts had MANY OTHER TASKS OTHER THAN PHOTOGRAPHY. So I returned to the Lunar Surface Journal to find how much TIME was available to do all the scientific tasks AS WELL AS PHOTOGRAPHY. Unlike the number of photos, this information is readily available:

Apollo 11........1 EVA .....2 hours, 31 minutes......(151 minutes)
Apollo 12........2 EVAs.....7 hours, 50 minutes......(470 minutes)
Apollo 14........2 EVAs.....9 hours, 25 minutes......(565 minutes)
Apollo 15........3 EVAs...18 hours, 30 minutes....(1110 minutes)
Apollo 16........3 EVAs...20 hours, 14 minutes....(1214 minutes)
Apollo 17........3 EVAs...22 hours, 04 minutes....(1324 minutes)

Total minutes on the Moon amounted to 4834 minutes.
Total number of photographs taken was 5771 photos.

Hmmmmm. That amounts to 1.19 photos taken EVERY MINUTE of time on the Moon, REGARDLESS OF OTHER ACTIVITIES. (That requires the taking of ONE PHOTO EVERY 50 SECONDS!) Let's look at those other activities to see how much time should be deducted from available photo time:

Apollo 11..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment, operate the TV camera (360 degree pan), establish contact with Earth (including ceremonial talk with President Nixon), unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages, find/document/collect 47.7 pounds of lunar rock samples, walk to various locations, conclude experiments, return to LEM.

Apollo 12..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment (spend time trying to fix faulty TV camera), establish contact with Earth, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages, walk to various locations, inspect the unmanned Surveyor 3 which had landed on the Moon in April 1967 and retrieve Surveyor parts. Deploy ALSEP package. Find/document/collect 75.7 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM.

Apollo 14..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment and establish contact with Earth, unpack and assemble hand cart to transport rocks, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages, walk to various locations. Find/document/collect 94.4 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM.

Apollo 15..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment and establish contact with Earth, unpack/assemble/equip and test the LRV electric-powered 4-wheel drive car and drive it 17 miles, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages (double the scientific payload of first three missions). Find/document/collect 169 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM. (The LRV travels only 8 mph*.)

Apollo 16..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment and establish contact with Earth, unpack/assemble/equip and test the LRV electric-powered 4-wheel drive car and drive it 16 miles, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages (double the scientific payload of first three missions, including new ultraviolet camera, operate the UV camera). Find/document/collect 208.3 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM. (The LRV travels only 8 mph*.)

Apollo 17..........Inspect LEM for damage, deploy flag, unpack and deploy radio and television equipment and establish contact with Earth, unpack/assemble/equip and test the LRV electric-powered 4-wheel drive car and drive it 30.5 miles, unpack and deploy numerous experiment packages. Find/document/collect 243.1 pounds of rocks, conclude experiments, return to LEM. (The LRV travels only 8 mph*.)

Let's arbitrarily calculate a MINIMUM time for these tasks and subtract from available photo time:

Apollo 11....subtract 2 hours (120 minutes), leaving 031 minutes for taking photos
Apollo 12....subtract 4 hours (240 minutes), leaving 230 minutes for taking photos
Apollo 14....subtract 3 hours (180 minutes), leaving 385 minutes for taking photos
Apollo 15....subtract 6 hours (360 minutes), leaving 750 minutes for taking photos
Apollo 16....subtract 6 hours (360 minutes), leaving 854 minutes for taking photos
Apollo 17....subtract 8 hours (480 minutes), leaving 844 minutes for taking photos

So do the math:

Apollo 11.......121 photos in 031 minutes............3.90 photos per minute
Apollo 12.......504 photos in 230 minutes............2.19 photos per minute
Apollo 14.......374 photos in 385 minutes............0.97 photos per minute
Apollo 15.....1021 photos in 750 minutes............1.36 photos per minute
Apollo 16.....1765 photos in 854 minutes ...........2.06 photos per minute
Apollo 17.....1986 photos in 844 minutes ...........2.35 photos per minute

Or, to put it more simply:

Apollo 11........one photo every 15 seconds
Apollo 12........one photo every 27 seconds
Apollo 14........one photo every 62 seconds
Apollo 15........one photo every 44 seconds
Apollo 16........one photo every 29 seconds
Apollo 17........one photo every 26 seconds

So you decide. Given all the facts, was it possible to take that many photos in so short a time?

Any professional photographer will tell you it cannot be done. Virtually every photo was a different scene or in a different place, requiring travel. As much as 30 miles travel was required to reach some of the photo sites. Extra care had to be taken shooting some stereo pairs and panoramas. Each picture was taken without a viewfinder, using manual camera settings, with no automatic metering, while wearing a bulky spacesuit and stiff clumsy gloves.

The agency wants the world to believe that 5771 photographs were taken in 4834 minutes! IF NOTHING BUT PHOTOGRAPHY HAD BEEN DONE, such a feat is clearly impossible...made even more so by all the documented activities of the astronauts. Imagine...1.19 photos every minute that men were on the Moon –- that's one picture every 50 SECONDS!

The secret NASA tried to hide has been discovered: The quantity of photos purporting to record the Apollo lunar EVAs could not have been taken on the Moon in such an impossible time frame. So why do these photos exist? How did these photos get made? Did ANY men go to the Moon? Or was it truly the greatest hoax ever?

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm

So you are assuming that they did not take photos while doing these activities? That they would ignore one of their best methods of collecting physical information about these tasks with the best device they had to collect it? Photo count means nothing. Heck your typical sports photographer will rapid fire through pictures. These counts mean little, a chronology of the photographs and what they are would really be needed to call hoax on such an item.

Ken

[Roo]

I hate to say this, but I give the it is a hoax to control the people perpetuated by some secret organization infiltrating our government theory more credence than actual aliens.

Basically I have a hard time rationing why aliens would want to "come out" to us in such a manner. I mean they cross light years upon light years of space for what, we probably look like the Jerry Springer show to them.

Ken

I was not being at all serious with that statement. My expectation of an alien invasion tomorrow are roughly on par with that of a BJ from Jessica Alba

[GENERAL BILLY]

No offense but they were on the moon not a child's birthday party. Its not like there is a lot of set up time for an interesting picture it's the moon. You spent millions and millions to get there you would take pictures rapid fire. It makes me sad to see all that math for such a faulty conclusion.

[devilock76]

I was not being at all serious with that statement. My expectations for an alien invasion tomorrow are roughly on par with that of a BJ from Jessica Alba

No worries, I think I quoted you for the use of H.R. Giger in your post.

Ken

[devilock76]

No offense but they were on the moon not a child's birthday party. Its not like there is a lot of set up time for an interesting picture it's the moon. You spent millions and millions to get there you would take pictures rapid fire. It makes me sad to see all that math for such a faulty conclusion.

Well we all know how 13x7 is 28.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLprXHbn19I

Ken

[Bigblue1]

Now that right there is funny. Thanks Dlock

[truthwolf1]

If they were working with Hasselblad cameras I truly doubt those numbers. That is a lot of FILM backs that add weight also. I know they were not loading those damn things by hand. You need to be very good with spooling those things and they hold from 12 to 24 shots.

The counts seem very high but could be done by just constantly advancing the film and non-stop shooting. A lot of the shots I am sure were under/over exposed.

It would be cool to see what the entire archive looks like though, or if there is even a archive for public view.

[sgreger1]

I already addressed the "number of photos" thing Tom.

Again,

Simplified gear with fixed settings permitted two photographs a second. Many were taken immediately after each other as stereo pairs or panorama sequences. This calculation was based on a single astronaut on the surface, and does not take into account that there were two persons sharing the workload during the EVA.


Using your numbers, the number of photos taken:

Apollo 11........... 121
Apollo 12........... 504
Apollo 14........... 374
Apollo 15..........1021
Apollo 16..........1765
Apollo 17..........1986


This means it took this many seconds to produce the above number of photographs for each missions:

Apollo 11........... 60.5 seconds (30 seconds per photographer)
Apollo 12........... 4 minutes (2 minutes per photographer)
Apollo 14........... 3 minutes (1.5 minutes per photographer)
Apollo 15.......... 8.5 minutes (4.2 minutes per photographer)
Apollo 16.......... 14.7 minutes (7.3 minutes per photographer)
Apollo 17.......... 16 minutes (8 minutes per photographer)


So when we first went there, the amount of photos could have been taken in under a minute, and the last time, using more advanced technology, we spent a WHOPPING 16 minutes taking photographs (actually, only 8 minutes since there were two camera men). I am now upset that they didn't take more pictures. I take a million pictures when I visit the grand canyon, if I were on the moon I would photograph everything.




There is not a single moon hoax theory that cannot be easily explained away. Explaining away shit in complicated ways makes me suspect, but when it comes ot the Moon Landing Hoax, all of them are debunked very easily. Like people say "Astonaughts said they didn't see any stars, and there were no stars in the pictures! It's space man!", this is a simple misunderstanding. The moon is very bright, hence the tinted faceplates, this creates multiple shadows and due to the exposure settings of the camera it does not register small amounds of light like stars. Try standing on a giant spotlight and taking a picture, you tell me if any stars show up in the picture.


I defy anyone here to show me some smoking gun of a moon hoax that I cannot debunk.

[truthwolf1]

The more I am thinking about this, I really would like to see the under/over exposed pictures. There is no-way with that camera to come out with a perfect picture each time unless it was done in a studio with extra lighting. The focus really does not matter because with those lenses you can set to feet how far a object is away from you but the proper exposure on a "Moon" of all places is tricky even if they had a hand held light meter. Did they have strobes and flash units with them??

Not sure about temperature and camera function, fog in the lense etc... and how the actual film was protected contained from any radioactivity.

[sgreger1]

If they were working with Hasselblad cameras I truly doubt those numbers. That is a lot of FILM backs that add weight also. I know they were not loading those damn things by hand. You need to be very good with spooling those things and they hold from 12 to 24 shots.

The counts seem very high but could be done by just constantly advancing the film and non-stop shooting. A lot of the shots I am sure were under/over exposed.

It would be cool to see what the entire archive looks like though, or if there is even a archive for public view.

Different cameras were used for different missions. They were semi automatic and took a lot of pictures because they were essentially video cameras, some taking 24 fps.



Three 70-millimeter Hasselblad data cameras were carried by the astronauts on the lunar surface. Two cameras (LM2) were equipped with 60-millimeter focal length lenses; the other had a high-resolution 500-millimeter lens (LM1). These cameras were battery powered, semiautomatic, and, for most operations, attached to the astronauts' pressure suits at chest height. The astronauts could initiate the operation sequence by squeezing a trigger mounted on the camera handle, and the cameras were operable at check stops at each half-stop value.




"The 16-millimeter Maurer DAC had frame rates of 1, 6, and 12 fps in the automatic mode and 24 frames per second in the semiautomatic mode"



Apollo 11 carried a number of cameras for collecting data and recording various aspects of the mission, including one 70-mm Hasselblad electric camera, two 70-mm lunar surface superwide-angle cameras, one Hasselblad El data camera, two 16-mm Maurer data acquisiton cameras, one 35-mm surface close-up stereoscopic camera, and a television camera.


70-mm Hasselblad Electric Camera. This camera, which was carried aboard the command module, featured a motor-drive mechanism, powered by two nickel-cadmium batteries, that advanced the film and cocked the shutter whenever the camera was activated.

70-mm Hasselblad Lunar Surface Superwide-Angle Cameras. These cameras, which were carried aboard the lunar module, were operated manually for the shutter and film advance.
70-mm Hasselblad EL Data Camera. This electrically powered camera, carried on the lunar module, featured semiautomatic operation. It used 60-mm Biogon lens exclusively. The operating sequence was initiated by squeezing a trigger mounted on the camera handle. A reseau grid was set in front of the image plane to provide photogrammetric information in the analysis of the photography. The camera was bracket-mounted on the front of a LM astronaut's suit.

16-millimeter Maurer Data Acquisition Camera. Apollo 11 carried two Maurer data acquisition cameras, one on the command module and one on the lunar module. The cameras were used primarily to record engineering data and for continuous-sequence terrain photography. The CM camera had lenses of 5-mm, 10-mm, and 75-mm focal lengths; the LM camera was fitted with an 18-mm wide-angle lens. Accessories included a right-angle mirror, a power cable, and a CM boresight window bracket.
The Maurer camera weighed 2.8 pounds with a 130-foot film magazine attached. It had frame rates of 1, 6, and 12 fps automatic and 24 fps semiautomatic at all lens focal lengths, and shutter speeds of 1/60, 1/125, 1/500, and 1/1000 second, again, at all lens focal lengths.


35-mm Lunar Surface Close-up Stereoscopic Camera. This camera, carried on the lunar module's Modular Equipment Storage Assembly (MESA), was designed for the highest possible resolution of a 3-inch square area with a flash illumination and fixed distance. Photography was accomplished by holding the camera on a walking stick against the object to be photographed. The camera was powered by four nickel-cadmium batteries that operated the motor-drive mechanism and an electronic flash strobe light.