Ron Paul Slams WTC Mosque Protesters!

[sgreger1]

That's not Betty Crocker's cookbook in their hands.

How is that any different from fringe christians protesting gays with bibles in their hands? I'm just saying tom, surely you see the corrolation here. Every large group has idiots, it's simply a matter of statistics in mass movements. Deepset ideological beliefs sprout all kinds of whackos. Islam hating America and praising 9-11 is no different from the christians who hate america and praise 9-11. But both of those groups are in the fringe and therefore shoud not get any attention. Islamic radicals are epic attention whores, they win if you pay attention to them. Do not give them relevance or a spot on the 10 `oclock news.

[devilock76]

Nor or they any different from the Timothy McVeighs of the world or the radical pro-lifers who would bomb abortion clinics.

Abhor the violence, regardless of the faith or creed behind it.

Ken

[tom502]

The KKK is maybe 75 people in the nation with 40 teeth. They did do some localized terrorizing in their heyday, and there is the odd fanatic now and again, but it in no way compares to the massive large scale murders and jihadist suicide bombing that literally happen every day, with millions of adherants, and supporters, and large fundings.

And yes, sure most Muslims are not fanatics, but if there are 12 billion muslims, and 10 percent of them are fanatical jihadists and supporters, that's a giant number.

[sgreger1]

The KKK is maybe 75 people in the nation with 40 teeth. They did do some localized terrorizing in their heyday, and there is the odd fanatic now and again, but it in no way compares to the massive large scale murders and jihadist suicide bombing that literally happen every day, with millions of adherants, and supporters, and large fundings.

And yes, sure most Muslims are not fanatics, but if there are 12 billion muslims, and 10 percent of them are fanatical jihadists and supporters, that's a giant number.

Actually there is closer to 1 billion muslims, 99% of which you never hear about because they aren't screaming for attention or bombing skyscrapers. Your right though, Islam poses the largest threat relative to other religions. I don't think anyone would find facts saying otherwise. But that's just the crazy group of today, tomorrow it will be someone new. Don't sign away freedom today when tomorrow is yet to come.

We need to fight the radicals, we need to use the army and we need to use traditional intel and investigative methods to find out who is actually plotting evil and stop them before they succeed. That should be our goal, not harrassing anyone who wants to show up to church on sunday. We need to seperate islam from radicals in the same way you want to seperate jews from zionists. 2 different things.

[tom502]

Comparing the KKK(of today) along with McVeigh, anti-abortionists, and the Westboro "church", to Radical Islam, is like comparing a firecracker to a nuclear bomb.

Just found this site:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[sgreger1]

Comparing the KKK(of today) along with McVeigh, anti-abortionists, and the Westboro "church", to Radical Islam, is like comparing a firecracker to a nuclear bomb.

Just found this site:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Not really. I mean I understand the militant islam is much more active and they cause more chaos and destruction than all other religious forces combined, but it doesn't mean they aren't all the same thing. Half the violence in the middle east is because there is a war going on which we are part of. If we just count domestic threats, militant islam poses a small risk compared to other domestic religions. They blew up the WTC, 1 building, 1 attack (oh, and that guy at ft hood). They have tried a couple of other times but failed. Meanwhile abortion clinics are bombed, animal testing facilities are bombed, IRS buildings are bombed and planes are flown into them etc. The number of terrorist attack in the US are mainly non-muslim. As far as their own countries, that is what happens when you are in war, shit gets blown up.

[tom502]

I don't agree. Consider the numbers of victims too. The Ft Hood killer, the many "honor killings" could be considered too, the Muslim that shot up the recruitment center and killed someone, and the numbers of killed at 911. It pales in contrast to the domestic terrorists, unless we want to include the "minority" gangs, which do make a big negative impact, and they even way outdo in the killings and terror of the honky terrorist groups.

[devilock76]

Comparing the KKK(of today) along with McVeigh, anti-abortionists, and the Westboro "church", to Radical Islam, is like comparing a firecracker to a nuclear bomb.

Just found this site:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Yes it is comparing a lit fire cracker in your closed to hand to a nuclear bomb half a world away that has no way of being delivered here.

My point is extremism is extremism and dangerous, regardless of the dogmas surrounding the people who practice it.

And by overall body counts throughtout history christianity, and it's professed believers, are still way ahead of islam in the amount of graves they can fill.

Ken

[tom502]

I don't believe that. Islam has a long history of murders, against others, and their own, and while Christians have calmed down these days, Islamic terror is still going strong.

[devilock76]

By any guess figures I can find the KKK has several thousand members across just shy of 200 chapters.

Ken

[devilock76]

Well allow me to compile a brief list:

the crusades
the inquisition
the holocaust

As for Islam, well of the 7 "terrorist bombing" incidents I can find that occurred in August, only one was realted to islam, 4 of them however were in Northern Ireland.

Ken

[tom502]

Muslims were invaders and decimaters since it's inception. There was the Turkish assault, slavery, and all the terror attacks in Israel, Bali, India, Punjab, and many other nations, including 911. And the terror attacks and murders against their own people that happen near every day. And the holocaust was not a religious thing, so I wouldn't count that, unless you want to count Stalins gulags also, and Rawandan massacre, and the Armenian genocide, oh and I forgot, many Islamic killings in Russia, and the UK via terrorism, like that schoolhouse seige not too long ago. Islamic murder count towers over any others.

[Darwin]

Christianity has, largely, had its teeth pulled in the mass oppression in the name of mass conversion game as was so common in past centuries. Islam, after a relatively quiet period in the last few centuries is on the aggressive ascendant again and this phenomenon far predates 9/11 and the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. Islam really has three main strands right now. The whack job Islamist fanatics, the aggressive promoters of sharia and the gradualist takeover of the west, and the great bulk of the rest of practicing muslims. The largest problem lies in the fact that the first two groups are aggressive intimidators of the far larger third category which tends to minimize that cohort's criticism of the first two. A very knotty problem indeed.

[devilock76]

Muslims were invaders and decimaters since it's inception. There was the Turkish assault, slavery, and all the terror attacks in Israel, Bali, India, Punjab, and many other nations, including 911. And the terror attacks and murders against their own people that happen near every day. And the holocaust was not a religious thing, so I wouldn't count that, unless you want to count Stalins gulags also, and Rawandan massacre, and the Armenian genocide, oh and I forgot, many Islamic killings in Russia, and the UK via terrorism, like that schoolhouse seige not too long ago. Islamic murder count towers over any others.

I beg to differ. Hitler believed he was doing gods work, and the church turned a blind eye to it and in fact never excommunicated Hitler. I didn't even include the native american genocide by the religious groups that came to america to escape persecution in Europe so they could practice their own form here, witch trials also.

See Tom the thing is in past debates with you I have seen how you hate that whole facts, figures, references and statistics thing. But see they make for a shared reality where I can elucidate what I say by having references to cite. It tends to hold more water than the the emotionally charged yet nescient approach.

Fact followers (in their own words) of Christianity have killed far more people than Muslims throughout history. Your everyday comment doesn't hold water, in the whole month only one bombing in baghdad is not everyday.

However something I do agree with is the muslims were larger "slavers" throughout history than christians, this is very true. Which really makes the whole Nation of Islam movement rather ironic. Oh well.

Ken

[tom502]

So, you think the Ku Klux Klan
and the Spanish Inquisition are bad?
So do we, but...
Put the Numbers in Perspective

More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined. (source)

Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years. (source)

More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland. (source)
19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years. (source)

From: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/