Ron Paul Slams WTC Mosque Protesters!

[sgreger1]

Now to fuel the third angle, the NWO crowd. The muslim brotherhood is actually ran by US and british intel services like the CIA.



Miles Axe Copeland, Jr. -a prominent U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) operative who was one of the founding members of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) under William Donovan- divulges the confessions of numerous members of the Muslim brotherhood that resulted from the harsh interrogations done against them by Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser, for their alleged involvement in the assassination attempt made against Nasser (an assassination attempt that many believe was staged by Nasser himself [10]), which revealed that the Muslim Brotherhood was merely a "guild" that fulfilled the goals of western interests: "Nor was that all. Sound beatings of the Moslem Brotherhood organizers who had been arrested revealed that the organization had been thoroughly penetrated, at the top, by the British, American, French and Soviet intelligence services, any one of which could either make active use of it or blow it up, whichever best suited its purposes.


So +1 in the direction of those who believe a lot of terrorist organisations like Al quaida and the Muslim brotherhood are just proxies that do the dirty work for governments around the world.

[sgreger1]

Another thing to keep in mind, Islam is not a personal faith "religion", like Christianity, or Buddhism, etc., it's a "complete way of life", which they will tell you themselves, that have rules for everything they do, be it butt wiping or foot cleaning.... along with a sepratist theocratical world motive. It's more a totalitarian theocratic slave state political system, and cannot be compared with other religions, that want freedom to practice their personal faith as they see fit. Muslim want everyone to be Muslim. And while sure, Christians want to convert others too, they don't behead you if you don't, or if you want to change your religion yourself. Islam is really a unique phenomena, and it's not accurate to compare it to other faiths, or ift's worldwide Jihad activities, to Mcveigh.

Tom, you are half right. All religions operated as you mentioned above for most of their history. Only recently has religion found a moderate tone. Islam on the other hand is still operating like this was the dark ages and has remained a (as you so ellegantly put it) "totalitarian theocratic slave state political system".

Islam IS a personal faith. It's like judaism, there are regular jews and then there are the hacids, the orthodox ones who make judaism a way of life. Same with a yogi or someone who gives up the material world in search for enlightenment. The only problem here is that the orthodox version of Islam involves converting or killing everyone not from islam and taking over the world to establish a caliphate. I don't care about moderate islam, but orthodox islam is making a comeback and it will lead to violence and instability like it always has in the past.

[devilock76]

I an attempt to avoid going more tit for tat. The point is that it has nothing to do with Muslims, it has to do with loonies.

You know I hear all this back and forth about this guy behind the Mosque. I have heard he is an advisor to the US on muslim relations, I see him talking to Glen Beck in the video that started this yet now he is also a terrorist supporter? Which story is it. It seems he only sounds like a terrorist supporter in the shorter sound bites, not the full dialogue. Sounds a lot like those "news" snippets on that other site. Sounds great for your point till you read the whole story.

Ken

[devilock76]

And on my point that Hitler in his mind felt he was doing the work of god...

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." - from Mein Kempf

[tom502]

[sgreger1]

I an attempt to avoid going more tit for tat. The point is that it has nothing to do with Muslims, it has to do with loonies.

You know I hear all this back and forth about this guy behind the Mosque. I have heard he is an advisor to the US on muslim relations, I see him talking to Glen Beck in the video that started this yet now he is also a terrorist supporter? Which story is it. It seems he only sounds like a terrorist supporter in the shorter sound bites, not the full dialogue. Sounds a lot like those "news" snippets on that other site. Sounds great for your point till you read the whole story.

Ken

He was a deligate for Muslim relations under Bush. The guy seems legit on first look. The problem is that he has a long history of ties to this organisation and is a vocal supporter of it. The organisation is all about opening settlements in the west, establishing mosques and incrising the volume of the muslim community, untill one day there will be enough muslims to overthrow the west and re-instate the caliphate.

I still say they should let them build it. I still say most muslims are moderate, but I must also say I see why this is generating so much controversy because the guy running it is not a moderate muslim, but one of the"loonies" you speak of. I just wish they were going to build a moderate mosque in this community center and not one lead by someone who is tied to a group with such nefarious objectives.

[sgreger1]

And on my point that Hitler in his mind felt he was doing the work of god...

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." - from Mein Kempf

Hitlers view of who the almighty creator may be different than what you are thinking. He had a lot of occult beliefs and was only a christian for part of his life. I think he belongs in the "crazy ****ing bastards" bin and not the religious ideologue bin. He wasn't trying to convert everyone to christianity, for example. It was just about power and cleaning the gene pool/

[tom502]

Now, I'd be happy with Islam, if most Muslims followed Islam like this site: http://www.masjidtucson.org/

They show how popular Islam is all against the teachings, and use Quran only to show it. Modern Islam, well, it's been this way for a long time, is based mainly on Hadith, which is their excuse to explain Islam. Anyway, this link shows the difference. Though their leader was killed by Al-Qaeda.
http://www.masjidtucson.org/publicat...e_muslims.html

[tom502]

Hitler pretended to be Christian for the same reason Obama does.

[sgreger1]

Oh, and let me throw it in at another angle, jsut to show how rediculous this topic is from all sides: The evil arab terrorists funding this project, the "Kingdom Foundation", yah the founder of that organisation is part owner of fox news....


Ooooh the irony is so thick you need a steak knife to cut it. GET SOME.






EDIT: I have no where else to put this, so i'll just leave it right here:

Step aside Terror Babies, the new face of evil is the Terror Embryos

[NonServiam]

Hitlers view of who the almighty creator may be different than what you are thinking. He had a lot of occult beliefs and was only a christian for part of his life. I think he belongs in the "crazy ****ing bastards" bin and not the religious ideologue bin. He wasn't trying to convert everyone to christianity, for example. It was just about power and cleaning the gene pool/

I never thought I would ever engage in one of these Hitler threads, but if you can't beat em'.....

I think Hitler was very confused on religious/spiritual issues, but then again, most of us are once we begin to think for ourselves and separate from the flock.

His private statements conflict his public statements and vice versa. Many attribute Hitler to having occult ties due to his association with the Thule Society. But I think he associated with Thule to further his Aryan agenda as Thule was a proponent of the pre-christian traditions of the Germanic peoples.

Some say he was spiritual, but against organized religion. I think Hitler changed hats whenever appropriate if it could further his movement. I'm sure I will be contradicted, but Nazi Germany is not something I have studied extensively. Although if I stay here at Snuson, I'm sure I'll become well versed in it

[sgreger1]

I have to chime in here.
I'm so sick of reading, seeing, and listening to this stupid toothless hillbilly-like shit going on.
If it were not for Islam, we wouldn't be where we areas a society today. Look up the contributions that Islamic society has given us. Go ****ing look up what they have done in science, math, medicine, music, literature, philosophy, and technology. They developed medical schools, and psychiatric hospitals.
Go look the **** up Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi. Go look what that barbarian did.
You know what? **** it. I'm out.

Most people on the forum agree with that and no one is trying to say muslims havn't contributed anything. What we are talking about is that in the past few years, terrorism has been on the rise, and it is fueled by the islamic belief in the necessity of Jihad.

Inventing psychiatric hospitals does not give you carte blanche to go blow up buildings and embassy's. We are talking about what a religion is causing today in terms of violence, not what a certain region of people invented in the past. Islam didn't invent any of those things or contribute to the sciences, people did. Most people in any given region are followers of the religion that is currently in power. Islam did not invent algebra. That would be as dumb as saying christianity landed a man on the moon or christianity built the most prosperous nation in history. And even going by that standard, christianity would still win because by the same standard christianity or christian peoples have, overall, contributed the most to the arts, sciences, medical fields etc.


It's just not fair to tie religion in with race. What is happening in the middle east is about a religion as much as it is about politics. I cannot see how people are so willing to overlook the fact that people are strapping bombs to themselves and killing innocents. I don't see how inventing math or contributing to science somehow obstains them of that. It is beyond me.

[Roo]

Can I just say I'm really enjoying the view from the sidelines? It's really nice to sit back for once and rest my tired head after being what seemed like the only defender of moderate Islam on this forum, something a few of y'all truy don't know shit about. I see a few more have joined the club, and it's nice to see that. Welcome to the forum devilock, I don't think I had a chance to say that. sgreger has even shown major progress, at least from my perspective. The student shall soon surpass the teacher. lol just kidding bro. You're an individual and critical thinker, and I have a lot of respect for that, and for you. Now that you can spell "definitely", let's work on the difference between "then" and than". Another time, perhaps.

In any case, let's not forget that appealing to some people's misconstrued and baseless arguments, while sometimes fun and maybe even enlightening to some, is often as effective as satiating a hungry infant with a T-bone steak.

Edit: Damnit I wrote a good reply to what you say above sgregs but it didn't post. I don't feel like writing again and I'm busy, so suffice it to say that the bit about an Islamic (Persian) man inventing algebra, in that example, obstains them of suicide bombings was not his point as I took it. It's about disrespecting entire civilaizations and a fifth of the world's population based on modern stereotypes and the erroneous assumption that Islam is the common thread tying together the murderous "martyr" in Jerusalem and the pious melon-vendor in Samarkand.

[sgreger1]

Can I just say I'm really enjoying the view from the sidelines? It's really nice to sit back for once and rest my tired head after being what seemed like the only defender of moderate Islam on this forum, something a few of y'all truy don't know shit about. I see a few more have joined the club, and it's nice to see that. Welcome to the forum devilock, I don't think I had a chance to say that. sgreger has even shown major progress, at least from my perspective. The student shall soon surpass the teacher. lol just kidding bro. You're an individual and critical thinker, and I have a lot of respect for that, and for you. Now that you can spell "definitely", let's work on the difference between "then" and than". Another time, perhaps.

In any case, let's not forget that appealing to some people's misconstrued and baseless arguments, while sometimes fun and maybe even enlightening to some, is often as effective as satiating a hungry infant with a T-bone steak.

I'm so unqiue, I have my own version of English grammer. It's as elite as it gets. Someday I will teach you, young grasshopper Roo. But not untill you are ready.


It's just difficult because I am a defender of moderate islam, but I am also not blind to the fact that there is a lot of violence being fueled by religion right now and a lot of that centers around the age old (and tired) conflict between christians/the west and muslims/the east. Someday both sides will need to just sit down and drink a beer together (that is, once they start allowing beer in muslim communities again lol).


And either way, this has just devolved into a convo about whether islam is super cool or super evil. The orriginal subject of the OP was a discussion on this particular mosque and whether they should build it or not. I don't see how we can even debate something that is so clearly spelled out in the constitution and bill of rights.


The end-all-be-all of this situation is:

1) They can legally build it, and their right to build it is based on 2 of the most important concepts in our founding documents. Those would be property rights and religious freedom
2) people have the first ammendment right to bitch, but not much else.
3) Dont give up your property rights, free speech, and freedom of religion just to combat todays boogeman. Because you will never get it back if you let it go now.

[NonServiam]

Now that you can spell "definitely"

uh oh.... I am definetly (I mean definitely) one of those people challenged by that word. I'm also challenged by "unfortunately" occasionally. I usually pride myself on my grammar and spelling, but I do have a few troubles sometimes. They say the most frequently misspelled word is "restaurant". I'll have to be careful now as others are watching. lol