Oaths of Enlistment

[sgreger1]

Most people I know max out their push-ups and sit-ups before the one minute is even up. It's the airforce run. It may be a half a mile shorter, but you have to be much quicker. Many airforce people get sent with army nowadays. For my husband, passing PT with the army was easy. He never went to the gym, put on weight and still passed with flying colors. With the airforce test, he is regularly put on the "program" because his short little legs can't move fast enough. The 2010 standards require them to be even faster and our base is now faced with a VERY high failure rate. Two of the three major marathon runners in his squadron have even failed. The only people in his squadron that are easily passing are the ones that are as skinny as a wet noodle and can't preform during training the second they are put in field gear.
I'm not saying the overall airforce PT is worse, but it isn't the joke that the other branches think it is either. Although I will say our new uniforms are aptly named. To most they are ACUs the airforce calls them ABUs -- most go to Combat the air force shows up for a Battle.

I persoanlly wished I had joined the air force. As a forward observer I realize I could have done the same job as a JTAC in the air force and lived a way better life. The only problem with the AF is they don't usually give sign on bonuses, it's harder to get into, and you move up in rank VERY slowly relative to the army.


As for the PT standards. I am not sure what's going on in your husbands unit, they are obviousely not following the department-wide standards for PT tests. The 2010 MAXIMUM score for the 1.5 mile run is 1.5 miles in 9.36 minutes or faster. That is the highest score on the chart. The lowest passing score is running 1.5 miles in 20:37-21:30 minutes. A person could easly do a light jog and pass the 1.5 mile run standard. This is for the youngest age group (25 or under), so in theory these should be the fastest runners. Conversely, the army is about 12 minutes for 2 miles being the top score (so an extra 3 minutes to run an additional .5 miles). But both average out to about a 6 minute mile in order to max it (army just has to run .5 more miles to meet the standard).

What I suspect is that his unit was like mine, the maximum on the chart is the minimum for the unit. I had to run a 12-12:30 minute 2 mile consistently just to not get yelled at. That's 2 6 minute miles back to back, which is absolute murder at 6 in the morning after drinking the night before lol.


All in all i've trained with plenty of air force guys and you have to realize that be it air force, marines, or army, it's all made up of the same people, the same demoraphics. And I found the AF was the same as the army, you got some fast runners (the skinny noodles) and some slow runners. Not too much difference between them. Personally I don't think the standards are very high for either of them. Also, the reaosn why the marathon runners are failing may be because marathon runners are good at endurance and not sprinting, and frnakly 1.5 miles is like a long sprint. Don't need much endurance, needs lots of short speed burst.

What does ACU stand for in the air force? We wear ACU's but it stands for Army Combat Uniform, which replaces the BDU's (Dattle Dress Uniform), not sure what the destinction is between combat and battle, but I would point out that most air force personell are actually support troops and not "battle" or "combat" troops. Fighter pilots show up for battle, crewchiefs and desk jockeys don't show up for battle

But the army is the same way, a lot of it is support and only a fraction of MOS's are classified as combat as combat MOS.

[tom502]

I wish I had joined the Air Force too.

[ChaoticGemini]

The only problem with the AF is they don't usually give sign on bonuses, it's harder to get into, and you move up in rank VERY slowly relative to the army.

Yep, rank slow, but not as easy to loose. We did get an enlistment bonus before, but it was a joke what they say you will be paid compared to what you actually get.

As for the PT standards. I am not sure what's going on in your husbands unit, they are obviousely not following the department-wide standards for PT tests. The 2010 MAXIMUM score for the 1.5 mile run is 1.5 miles in 9.36 minutes or faster. That is the highest score on the chart. The lowest passing score is running 1.5 miles in 20:37-21:30 minutes. A person could easly do a light jog and pass the 1.5 mile run standard. This is for the youngest age group (25 or under), so in theory these should be the fastest runners. Conversely, the army is about 12 minutes for 2 miles being the top score (so an extra 3 minutes to run an additional .5 miles). But both average out to about a 6 minute mile in order to max it (army just has to run .5 more miles to meet the standard).

He's in the 30 to 40 group and needs a minimum of 13:30 to pass. It's not the unit's that do the tests. They are no longer allowed. It must be preformed by an unbiased group of hired civilians.
Admittedly, his height is a big part of the problem. He only has a 27" inseam. His legs look like a blur when he runs, but forward speed is not that fast. His legs muscles have gotten so large from trying to increase his speed that most pants don't fit him anymore. I realize his situation is a little unique, but the failure rate I see base wide says something is seriously wrong with the test.

What does ACU stand for in the air force?

It doesn't. They wear ABU's - Airman Battle Uniform.

I would point out that most air force personell are actually support troops and not "battle" or "combat" troops. Fighter pilots show up for battle, crewchiefs and desk jockeys don't show up for battle

Yes, but the biggest thing that makes me happy he went airforce is that our deployments (generally) are not nearly the long lengths that the rest of you have to go through. That's were the comment about you guys going to combat and the airforce showing up for a battle comes from. When Marines and Army are given 6 to 8 month orders, we get 3 to 4; one year for you guys, is usually only 6 to 8 for us. You get the idea. Our first assignment was at an old AEF base with the motto of "anywhere in the world, 72 hours" and it happened. From the second the base was notified to the time they were set up and ready to go, often in the middle of nowhere, was 72 hours or less. He was gone more than he was home. If you left of the first wave, you were replaced in 3 to 4 months max. and home for 1 to 2 months minimum. I would still take that over the constant 12 to 24 month straight deployments that I hear from the other branches.

[sgreger1]

Yep, rank slow, but not as easy to loose. We did get an enlistment bonus before, but it was a joke what they say you will be paid compared to what you actually get.

Yah, we get $40k enlistment bonuses but they take it at like 30%-50% I think it was. I got 20k up front and it ended up being like 10 or 15 or something, I was like WTF NO ONE TOLD ME ABOUT THIS.

He's in the 30 to 40 group and needs a minimum of 13:30 to pass. It's not the unit's that do the tests. They are no longer allowed. It must be preformed by an unbiased group of hired civilians.

Lol, that's a 9 minute mile per each mile. No offense but if he can't run a 9 minute mile he needs to hit the gym lol, that's pretty bad. And if the whole base can't run that than someone needs some extra training because a 9 minute mile is the equivalent of a brisk jog. Perhaps one of us is messing up the numbers here because a 13:30 1.5 mile run seems like an easy task, even for someone that's out of shape.

Yes, but the biggest thing that makes me happy he went airforce is that our deployments (generally) are not nearly the long lengths that the rest of you have to go through.

Yah, army was doing 15 month deployments, making us the longest amount of time deployed (per deployment) out of the 4 branches. Air force guys are smart because they come, do something, then go home like a regular person. Spending 15 months in the desert just to go back a year after that, get stop loss'd, and end up doing another 15 is absolutely intollerable.

Our first assignment was at an old AEF base with the motto of "anywhere in the world, 72 hours" and it happened. From the second the base was notified to the time they were set up and ready to go, often in the middle of nowhere, was 72 hours or less.

Yes I am very familiar with this. As a parachute infantry regiment my unit was on 18 hour notice. And that rotates between a few brigades, but if your number got called it was 18 hours to anywhere in the world. Shit was minuteman status, we would have drills all the time when it was our turn and it was hell. Your shit has to be packed and ready to go at all times and they might just wake you up at 1 am (without giving notice, so of course you were dirnking the night before when you werent supposed to), and you would have to grab all your shit and head to the airfield to do a combat jump in freezing ass weather in the dark of night. Absolutely sucky. The good thing is that it's never actually used. While we're prepared, they never actually deployed us when on alert like that. Thank God, actually doing a combat jump into a foreign country has an extremely high casualty rate. Often times it's estimated that 20% of the deployed group will be lost just during insertion, dying before they ever unpack their bag, either from injury or being shot while floating down. Not very good statistics to be on the bad side of lol.




How much longer does your husband have? Is he a career AF dude? I imagine so given his age, might as well wait it out and get that pension.

[ChaoticGemini]

Yah, we get $40k enlistment bonuses but they take it at like 30%-50% I think it was. I got 20k up front and it ended up being like 10 or 15 or something, I was like WTF NO ONE TOLD ME ABOUT THIS.

LOL. Glad we're not the only ones that had the unreportable mystery tax on the enlistment bonuses. About all I can say is it kept us out of the hole others found due to expensive housing and crap pay at the time.

Lol, that's a 9 minute mile per each mile. No offense but if he can't run a 9 minute mile he needs to hit the gym lol, that's pretty bad. And if the whole base can't run that than someone needs some extra training because a 9 minute mile is the equivalent of a brisk jog. Perhaps one of us is messing up the numbers here because a 13:30 1.5 mile run seems like an easy task, even for someone that's out of shape.

You're right, that does sound slow. (Even for stumpy) He happened to be up to pee when I asked his time needed. Hmm, wonder what 13-30 meant to his sleepy brain. He's at work now.

As a parachute infantry regiment my unit was on 18 hour notice. And that rotates between a few brigades, but if your number got called it was 18 hours to anywhere in the world. Shit was minuteman status, we would have drills all the time when it was our turn and it was hell. Your shit has to be packed and ready to go at all times and they might just wake you up at 1 am (without giving notice, so of course you were dirnking the night before when you werent supposed to), and you would have to grab all your shit and head to the airfield to do a combat jump in freezing ass weather in the dark of night. Absolutely sucky. The good thing is that it's never actually used. While we're prepared, they never actually deployed us when on alert like that. Thank God, actually doing a combat jump into a foreign country has an extremely high casualty rate. Often times it's estimated that 20% of the deployed group will be lost just during insertion, dying before they ever unpack their bag, either from injury or being shot while floating down. Not very good statistics to be on the bad side of lol.

Tough job. Are you still doing it?
They're always trying to get guys from the unit to go to jump school. I only know of one 19 year old kid they managed to convince because of the signing bonus and a little strong arming (i.e. we could volunteer you for..). I was not aware of the 20% casualty. I knew it was high, but not that much. Although once on the ground there are whole new problems. It reminds me of one of my favorite AFN commercials they aired in Korea 3 years ago. It would show this covert team making their way in the dark. They jump out and as they come to a beach the para-weather guy pulls out a big red balloon and launches it in front of the white parachutes of the other guys still landing. Perfect target.

How much longer does your husband have? Is he a career AF dude? I imagine so given his age, might as well wait it out and get that pension.

Well, we were seriously considering throwing it away at the 12 year mark. Seeing what happened with the economy, I'm glad we didn't. We're 14 in right now. So, yeah, at this point we plan to go all the way.

[sgreger1]

LOL. Glad we're not the only ones that had the unreportable mystery tax on the enlistment bonuses. About all I can say is it kept us out of the hole others found due to expensive housing and crap pay at the time.


You're right, that does sound slow. (Even for stumpy) He happened to be up to pee when I asked his time needed. Hmm, wonder what 13-30 meant to his sleepy brain. He's at work now.



Tough job. Are you still doing it?
They're always trying to get guys from the unit to go to jump school. I only know of one 19 year old kid they managed to convince because of the signing bonus and a little strong arming (i.e. we could volunteer you for..). I was not aware of the 20% casualty. I knew it was high, but not that much. Although once on the ground there are whole new problems. It reminds me of one of my favorite AFN commercials they aired in Korea 3 years ago. It would show this covert team making their way in the dark. They jump out and as they come to a beach the para-weather guy pulls out a big red balloon and launches it in front of the white parachutes of the other guys still landing. Perfect target.


Well, we were seriously considering throwing it away at the 12 year mark. Seeing what happened with the economy, I'm glad we didn't. We're 14 in right now. So, yeah, at this point we plan to go all the way.

No ive been out for a little over a year and am on to better things now. No more running for me

At my jump school we had a few airforce guys and a few marine force recon guys (wtf do these guys eat btw, whatever theyre feeding them makes them ****ing crazy). But jump school isnt bad, because after you finish you go back to your normal unit and nothing changes, you just get to wear wings. If you get assigned to an airborne unit like the 82nd you have to continue qualifying on a regular basis by doing jumps.

Pros are that you get to jump out of jets, blackhawks, chinooks etc which is cool for bragging rights,

Cons are that if you ever have to do a real combat jump your gonna be sucking. They drop you in the middle of nowhere and all you have is what you can fit in 1 bag, plus your rifle. Youd be surprised what i can make out of a single poncho and some 550 cord lol. But youll likely get shot on your way down or break your leg from all the weight on impact. Then if you make it to the ground you get to get dragged for a few dozen feet by your parachute while people are shooting at you because the d-clip parachute releases are from the 80's and get jammed easily. Then you just hope that everything goes according to plan and your able to meet up with the main force before you run out of food.


Luckily we dont really do those anymore since there is no "front line" anymore in wars. If we get into it with iran though id rather be the loadmaster on the plane than the guy jumping out, air force for the win! Lol.



You guys are lucky you stayed in. Most secure job in america right now and pays pretty well, plus you know youll be the last group to starve or go without a roof over your head if things get bad.

[Frosted]

The only people in his squadron that are easily passing are the ones that are as skinny as a wet noodle and can't preform during training the second they are put in field gear.

It was always the lighter people that did much better in the infantry. All the bigger lads found it tough. Admittedly there was a slight difference when wearing field gear - the skinny lads would move from the top of the group to the middle of the group which was still more than acceptable. However - whilst wearing webbing and carrying a rifle - they would move right up to the top of the group and really fly ahead.

A lot of our SAS lads are very slim indeed.