The greatest President in 100 years

[f. bandersnatch]

robotics did make their way into plants, quite extensively. What killed the American auto industry is what kills everything: bureaucracy. The Japanese management system allowed the Japanese auto makers to adapt to a changing market and to achieve unprecedented levels of quality control, and the Americans kept sending each other endless memos about fabled "American pluck". Hell, Toyota tried to teach GM their model back in the eighties and GM shut down the plant where the plan was implemented.

[shikitohno]

Mexicans are cheaper than robots maybe?

No maintenance fees with illegal immigrants. They lose a hand, get a new one, only costs you some training wages. Now a robot loses a hand, you either have to pay for a new robot plus time for a tech to come install it and test it, or you need to pay for a replacement hand plus parts and labor for a tech to replace and test it. Then you have to pay for someone to take care of them and keep the running smoothly. Just easier to hire the illegal immigrant, and cheaper too.

[sgreger1]

No maintenance fees with illegal immigrants. They lose a hand, get a new one, only costs you some training wages. Now a robot loses a hand, you either have to pay for a new robot plus time for a tech to come install it and test it, or you need to pay for a replacement hand plus parts and labor for a tech to replace and test it. Then you have to pay for someone to take care of them and keep the running smoothly. Just easier to hire the illegal immigrant, and cheaper too.

[BiggieB]

No maintenance fees with illegal immigrants. They lose a hand, get a new one, only costs you some training wages. Now a robot loses a hand, you either have to pay for a new robot plus time for a tech to come install it and test it, or you need to pay for a replacement hand plus parts and labor for a tech to replace and test it. Then you have to pay for someone to take care of them and keep the running smoothly. Just easier to hire the illegal immigrant, and cheaper too.

I think this is pretty accurate. It's pure economics. Whether it's a robot or a foreign worker, if the production costs can be lowered, they will be. It's a boon to the people of developing countries; despite what some may say of "slave labor" or "exploitation" most of the workers voluntarily work these jobs because they pay more than other comparable opportunities in their country. For those businesses running true slave camps, it's illegal to begin with.

As far as illegal immigrants in the US, what American who has been burdened with our taxes would willingly take a job that pays less than their current unemployment? I have a steady, I would say permanent job (don't get excited, it doesn't pay well) that I can take anywhere, but if I got layed off or fired for some reason I would milk my neighbors for as much as I could, because my neighbors forced me into paying for this BS system. Why take a "Mexican" job when I can make more sitting on my ass?

P.S. Libs, no this doesn't apply to EVERYONE, but it applies to many. If you would admit it, I'm sure you know them just as the rest of us do. And you cannot deny the incentive for exploitation we currently have.

[Joe234]

bsd777 would go back to the day before unions. Bring back the
12 hour work day with no breaks. Also allow free enterprise to
run free with no government regulation. We'll do away with all
food inspection first. I'm sure you trust the corporations to safe
guard your food. No more government meat inspection for
salmonella. No more disease control. We wouldn't government
involved.

[GoVegan]

bsd777 would go back to the day before unions. Bring back the
12 hour work day with no breaks. Also allow free enterprise to
run free with no government regulation. We'll do away with all
food inspection first. I'm sure you trust the corporations to safe
guard your food. No more government meat inspection for
salmonella. No more disease control. We wouldn't government
involved.

bsd reminds me of some John Birchers I once knew.

[Joe234]

bsd reminds me of some John Birchers I once knew.

He probably is one. They have some sympathizers here.
Most likely he's a young kid who gets his history from
Glenn Beck.

[bsd777]

bsd777 would go back to the day before unions. Bring back the
12 hour work day with no breaks. Also allow free enterprise to
run free with no government regulation. We'll do away with all
food inspection first. I'm sure you trust the corporations to safe
guard your food. No more government meat inspection for
salmonella. No more disease control. We wouldn't government
involved.

Now I'm a birtcher? how about "tea bagger"? Funny, half the people that where called that, had to look it up. Seems it was mostly only people on the other side, who ever thought of laying their sack on some dudes head.

Yeah, if I had my way, I'd fire 3/4 of the federal govt. The govt screws up far more than they help. The founders had it right. Those powers not expressly provided the federal govt are hereby reserved to the people and the states respectively. We need the for defense and to secure the boarders and not much more. I guess the founding fathers were "tea baggers" and "birtchers" too?

Those $80 and hour unskilled union jobs no longer exist, the unions screwed the goose. Detroit died because they continued to make crap. Here's a prediction for you, Obama made it even worse. In a move that would have made Castro or Chavez proud, he screwed investors, big time. Who, in there right mind, would invest now? And gave even more control and power to the UAW. Chrysler and GM will continue to wither and shrink, they will require continued government subsidization or will die completely, but eventually the govt will be fiscally unable to support these failures. Ford is doing better, but over time, it will also shink. Eventually US auto production will be as significatnt as English auto production, because they've not learned. Capitalism requires winners and looser, the loosers must be allowed to fail, otherwise constructive corrective action is not taken.

Corporations are a government creation to shield individuals from personal responsibility. Responsible people, who seek long term success will largely self police themselves. The FDA does very little to improve the safety of our nations food suppl. So yes, I'd kill it and the Departments of Energy and Education too.

[timholian]

Now I'm a birtcher? how about "tea bagger"? Funny, half the people that where called that, had to look it up. Seems it was mostly only people on the other side, who ever thought of laying their sack on some dudes head.

Yeah, if I had my way, I'd fire 3/4 of the federal govt. The govt screws up far more than they help. The founders had it right. Those powers not expressly provided the federal govt are hereby reserved to the people and the states respectively. We need the for defense and to secure the boarders and not much more. I guess the founding fathers were "tea baggers" and "birtchers" too?

Those $80 and hour unskilled union jobs no longer exist, the unions screwed the goose. Detroit died because they continued to make crap. Here's a prediction for you, Obama made it even worse. In a move that would have made Castro or Chavez proud, he screwed investors, big time. Who, in there right mind, would invest now? And gave even more control and power to the UAW. Chrysler and GM will continue to wither and shrink, they will require continued government subsidization or will die completely, but eventually the govt will be fiscally unable to support these failures. Ford is doing better, but over time, it will also shink. Eventually US auto production will be as significatnt as English auto production, because they've not learned. Capitalism requires winners and looser, the loosers must be allowed to fail, otherwise constructive corrective action is not taken.

Corporations are a government creation to shield individuals from personal responsibility. Responsible people, who seek long term success will largely self police themselves. The FDA does very little to improve the safety of our nations food suppl. So yes, I'd kill it and the Departments of Energy and Education too.

You keep bringing up Cuba..... which is funny since most of the things in your house are probably made in China.
I don't know if most people remember but China is a communist country, yet we have self righteous guys like you who like to ignore facts to your own liking. We get it, Cuba sucks, get over it already and expand your political rhetoric.

[shikitohno]

Now I'm a birtcher? how about "tea bagger"? Funny, half the people that where called that, had to look it up. Seems it was mostly only people on the other side, who ever thought of laying their sack on some dudes head.

Yeah, if I had my way, I'd fire 3/4 of the federal govt. The govt screws up far more than they help. The founders had it right. Those powers not expressly provided the federal govt are hereby reserved to the people and the states respectively. We need the for defense and to secure the boarders and not much more. I guess the founding fathers were "tea baggers" and "birtchers" too?

Those $80 and hour unskilled union jobs no longer exist, the unions screwed the goose. Detroit died because they continued to make crap. Here's a prediction for you, Obama made it even worse. In a move that would have made Castro or Chavez proud, he screwed investors, big time. Who, in there right mind, would invest now? And gave even more control and power to the UAW. Chrysler and GM will continue to wither and shrink, they will require continued government subsidization or will die completely, but eventually the govt will be fiscally unable to support these failures. Ford is doing better, but over time, it will also shink. Eventually US auto production will be as significatnt as English auto production, because they've not learned. Capitalism requires winners and looser, the loosers must be allowed to fail, otherwise constructive corrective action is not taken.

Corporations are a government creation to shield individuals from personal responsibility. Responsible people, who seek long term success will largely self police themselves. The FDA does very little to improve the safety of our nations food suppl. So yes, I'd kill it and the Departments of Energy and Education too.

High wages for industry were only part of the reason Detroit died. You're ignoring that fact that in a time when people wanted cars that cost $15-$25k and got good gas mileage because the price of fuel was too high, Detroit kept pumping out $25-$40k gas guzzlers, and put on blinders when Japanese and Korean automakers succeeded in the US by producing cheap, fuel efficient cars that people could afford to buy and drive. Unions played a part, but the death of Detroit was a suicide via stubborn refusal to listen to what consumers wanted and change to fit the times, instead relying on the same old types of cars that simply weren't selling. Nissan, Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai all started putting out relatively cheap, fuel-efficient models in the early 90s when people first started wanting cars like that, and they've continued to change to stay in touch with changes circumstances. Ford and the others in Detroit only hoped on this trend five or ten years ago, and it was too late.

Also, the FDA needs to update it's standards on food safety, but to ask for their dissolution (at least in regards to their control over food, their tobacco policy is another matter) is daft. Do you understand the sort of stuff that used to regularly make it into meat in stores before The Meat Inspection Act and Pure Food and Drug Acts were passed in 1906? That is what you get when you leave corporations to themselves. Corporations exist to make money, not to sell the best product they can. If they can legally sell a sub-standard product and turn a larger profit than they would selling a superior product, they will and do let inferior product be sold so long as there's no rule or law to prevent them from doing so. To say otherwise is an act of blind faith on par with that of those you call misled commies.

Also, timholian, it's rhetoric. Just for future notice.

[bsd777]

Sorry, guess I should add Hu Jintao, Bobby Mugabe, Kim Jong and perhaps some shit bags that are no longer with us, but I'd prefer to keep it short and Cuba is so much closer to home. I've known people who's families escaped that hell hole. But I never met anyone from N. korea or Zimbawe. Maybe China, but the ones I met, didn't discuss politics.

shikitohno - I mostly agree. Excepting that a lot has changed since 1906. And that in spite of of corporations obvious interest in maximizing profits. If they are held personally responsible AND they care as much about profits 6 months down the road as they do about profit today, it is highly unlikely any corporation would risk it's good name or law suits by selling something that's going to make people sick. Image the bad press and damage done after a "consumer reports' type of report declares they found traces of this or that in lunch meat or a couple of people get food poisoning and sued the crap out of Oscar Mayer?

[shikitohno]

I'm not even talking about say, a company letting in poison into things. But you repeal the FDA and meat grading vanishes without, outside of high class culinary circles. That grade D meat that goes into cat food becomes just as legit to use in product for human consumption, and much cheaper. If there is no high standard people or businesses are held to, they tend to sink to the lowest one possible. If there is no better alternative within the means of the average consumer, there is no incentive to meet a higher standard than the bare minimum. They would be held responsible eventually, but I believe that the accounting for the failures would only result in a new legal authority that was the FDA in all but name being created down the line. It's cheaper to reform the current FDA and get it up to snuff than to scrap the whole thing, spend a length of time with no standards at all and rebuild from the ground up. It would also cost us a great deal of money in export of food. US meat and produce is given credibility abroad because of our regulatory body. We produce vastly more food than we need for either domestic or export purposes, and let a great deal of it go to waste intentionally to keep prices up. If you kill the FDA (and thus the export market) you kill quality of life for farmers and ranchers. They can only either operate at a loss while artificially keeping prices high by discarding more food than they do currently, or they can sell it all here, flood the market and drive down prices to the point where they are again operating at a substantial loss.

[Joe234]

Sorry, guess I should add Hu Jintao, Bobby Mugabe, Kim Jong and perhaps some shit bags that are no longer with us, but I'd prefer to keep it short and Cuba is so much closer to home. I've known people who's families escaped that hell hole. But I never met anyone from N. korea or Zimbawe. Maybe China, but the ones I met, didn't discuss politics.

shikitohno - I mostly agree. Excepting that a lot has changed since 1906. And that in spite of of corporations obvious interest in maximizing profits. If they are held personally responsible AND they care as much about profits 6 months down the road as they do about profit today, it is highly unlikely any corporation would risk it's good name or law suits by selling something that's going to make people sick. Image the bad press and damage done after a "consumer reports' type of report declares they found traces of this or that in lunch meat or a couple of people get food poisoning and sued the crap out of Oscar Mayer?

Right wing dictatorships

Adolf Hitler
Francisco Franco
Benito Mussolini
Augusto Pinochet
Ayatollah Khomeini
---


List of Socialist Countries with Individual Details

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...g2.html?cat=37

People often make lists of different types of countries in the world on the basis of their official names, ruling parties, or other indefinitive characteristics. The most realistic way to devise a list of
Socialist countries is to base it upon which nations have substantial amounts of state-run industry, numerous govt. social programs, or other traits which make them actually Socialist.

The following is a list of such countries with reasons for including them. Keep in mind that this information is as of 2006, some countries may eventually need to be added or removed from the list.

Cuba: Cuba is one of the most Socialist nations, as it has a mostly state-run economy, universal healthcare, government-paid education at all levels, and a number of of social programs. It does not have a stock exchange.

North Korea: The same is true of North Korea, which has an almost entirely state-run economy, as well as the same social programs mentioned for Cuba. Like Cuba, North Korea does not have a stock exchange.

Venezuela: Economy has more private ownership, but the government social programs are quite extensive and the foreign policy is very left-wing. Cuban doctors and teachers have been brought to Venezuela to provide some medical and educational services.

China: A substantial part of the economy is still state-run, although there are not as many social programs as there once were and universal healthcare has been eliminated. Still has a Socialist-type foreign policy, for the most part.

Vietnam: A significant part of the economy is state-run. Close ties with Cuba, Venezuela, and Belarus.

Syria: Although not commonly referred to as Socialist in the West, Syria has a mostly state-run economy and universal healthcare, along with a left-wing foreign policy.

Belarus: Much of the Belarussian economy is state-run and some govt. social programs are available. Belarus has close ties with Venezuela, China, and other Socialist countries.

Sweden: Mostly private industry, but many well-funded govt. social programs are offered. Universal healthcare and government-provided education at all levels is made available.

Laos: A large part of the economy is state-run, and the government has close ties with most other Socialist countries.

Zambia: Some elements of the economy are state-run, including most of the media. Universal healthcare and primary education are available. Zambia has a left-wing foreign policy and
is friendly with China and North Korea.

Turkmenistan: Mostly state-run economy, various free and subsidized services are provided by the government. Housing and transportation are subsidized, natural gas and electricity are provided to citizens free of charge.

Other countries which might be considered Socialist, depending upon the interpretation of different factors, include Norway, Libya, Algeria, and Namibia.

[tom502]

What's Singapore?

[LaZeR]

I dare you to pop in a General Wintergreen and stare at that photo.