Religious affilition, what do you believe?

[AllanH]

I'm baptized and confessed Lutheran Christian even though for years I attended the Sermon of Anti-Christ aka Catholic Mass. After the truth of child rape in Catholic institutions emerged I stopped going to Catholic churches.
Martin Luther was absolutely right in basic principles of faith in my opinion.

[PipenSnus]

My karma ran over my dogma.

But seriously, I would define myself as a True Agnostic. By that I mean that not only do I admit I don't know whether or not a Divine Being exists, but also that I don't believe it is possible for anyone to truly know. The human mind simply isn't that powerful. Whether you say "God exists" or "God does not exist", you are still expressing a belief. You can believe whatever brings you comfort, but belief is not knowledge, and never will be.

OTOH, I'm fascinated with belief systems and how they influence people's behavior. I was raised a fundamentalist Christian, but became thoroughly disillusioned with that belief system as a teenager. I studied nearly all the world's religions and philosophies, and practiced a few. But the more I studied, the more I discovered there are always more questions than answers. I no longer follow any one particular path, but I take what I find useful from any and all systems of belief, mixed with a large helping of skepticism and logic.

I'm still very interested in spirituality, and in living an ethical life. But I've come to realize that what you believe isn't really important -- it's what you practice that counts.

[NonServiam]

I swear I learn something new here every day lol.

Same here. It is the proverbial 'meeting of the minds'. The more we learn, the more we realize what we don't know.

[sgreger1]

This is a complex topic, so I may post some links to save on typing and plagiarism. Basically, they don't see the christian god as the creator, he is not the true cosmic force. He is the demi-urge. A deity which seeks enslavement and a herd of blind followers. They see Lucifer (for Luciferians) or Satan (theistic satanists) as a liberator because he does not want us to grovel at his feet. He wants us to think for ourselves, to grow spiritually and mentally. And to many they believe in Apotheosis, developing your inner divine spark into a black flame (godhood). Many view that science, technology, and human advancement in general are some aspects of humanity which we can credit to Satan and/or Lucifer, or at least the idea behind them if you view them as archetypes. Ok, I've decided to do links. I don't agree 100% on each of their content, but it should help to explain some.

http://theisticsatanism.com/varieties/FAQ-TS.html (very informative site from Diane Vera)

http://www.spiritualsatanist.com/art...an/theism.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0GrCFtwuPI (John Allee, he's kind of a strange guy, but very intelligent)

http://solarphallic-cult.org/gnosticluciferian.html

As I said before, these philosophies are by no means my only focus. Just influences on my path. Like I said, I also follow Panentheism (the belief that god is the sum of all things, yet greater than the sum) and Germanic Heathenism or Odinism to some.

Very intiresting concept which I had never heard of. In theory it makes sense. Hell even in the first book of the bible, Genesis, the devil is trying to help man by giving him access to information that God wants to keep secret from humans. Then again right before the flood, when the watchers/fallen angels come down and start giving secrets to man (and starts banging their women), God once again gets pissed and wipes everyone out, leaving one dumb farmer alive to repopulate.


The whole story to me is science fiction, but it is an intiresting way of looking at it since the bible would seem to corroborate the luciferian side of the story; where god is constantly trying to keep humans dumb and in church, whereas lucifer and his fallen angels are trying to enlighten man and teach them to embrace technology and things such as the tower of babel.



I swear I learn something new here every day lol.

[sgreger1]

NonServian, that show was pretty cool. It's narrated by Morgan Freeman (great voice) and it's a new science show on Discovery Science. The first one was good.

http://science.discovery.com/tv/through-the-wormhole/

Maybe heaven and hell are the same place. All depends how it effects you [so far as that theory goes]. Maybe it's a nut-job idea, but it's not any further out there than any of the other ones. I mean, wouldn't it be torturous to see others have that what you cannot obtain? Happens all the time. Others bask in lavishness, and seemingly w/o a care in the world. Many of us yet are caught in the middle.

If one really looked you would realize that earth is both heaven and hell, and I think spritiualism tries to explain how to utilize this fact to stay more on the heaven side, since it is truly about perception.

Think about it, there are those in poor countries that have few material things, and then there are those that are rich beyond their dreams and have lots of material things.

It's all about your perception, and religion in a way tries to aid in bringing you towards the "heaven" side.

People are heaven and hell depending on how they percieve things:

Poor Hell: I am poor and have nothing, I will have no meaning in life and starve.

Poor Heaven: They develope spiritual practices (like budhism) that salute the fact they have litte, and in fact advocate giving up everything to enjoy the beauty of the world. In other words, to not worry about material things and enjoy your experience, even though you have nothing, because by ridding yourslef of the want to have material possesions you are no longer negatively impacted by the fact you are poor and have nothing. You gain something from nothing.


Rich Hell: They have everything but still never find happiness. They can have infinite money, but will never be as "at peace" with themselves as the yogi who lives in the mountains who owns nothing but his robes.

Rich Heaven: I have money, yay this is what I always wanted, I can use that to do things I want and or help others.



Life can be either heaven or hell, regardless of whether you were born in hollywood to a rich family or born to a tribe in bangladesh somewhere. It's all about your perception. A lot of what religion does is try and make the best of a bad situation for people in poor conditions, therefore it's not always bad.

[NonServiam]

NonServian, that show was pretty cool. It's narrated by Morgan Freeman (great voice) and it's a new science show on Discovery Science. The first one was good.

http://science.discovery.com/tv/through-the-wormhole/

Maybe heaven and hell are the same place. All depends how it effects you [so far as that theory goes]. Maybe it's a nut-job idea, but it's not any further out there than any of the other ones. I mean, wouldn't it be torturous to see others have that what you cannot obtain? Happens all the time. Others bask in lavishness, and seemingly w/o a care in the world. Many of us yet are caught in the middle.

I guess we'll all find out when our time comes. Something tells me that none of us will be right. By the way, thanks for your "Story" thread. I had a good time with that one. I just wish it would have lasted longer (lol, that's what she said!)

[NonServiam]

I knew about that hicks quote but I couldn't for the life of me recall the wording enough to be able to google it, but now you posted it and I was like "oh this is perfect for a signature". Your check is in the mail.


So what is their theory on why satan is the liberator but God is the oppressor. I could see how God would be the opressor, since in theory oppression only exists because he created it, but what has Lucifer really done to anyones benefit, assuming we are believing in the fairtale land of angels and demons.

I mean in theory, wouldn't any attempt at liberating the people or overthrowing God be futile considering God is the creator and created both lucifer and the concept of liberation and overthrow?

Does you model bump God down from a god to just a guy in robes or how does this work?

This is a complex topic, so I may post some links to save on typing and plagiarism. Basically, they don't see the christian god as the creator, he is not the true cosmic force. He is the demi-urge. A deity which seeks enslavement and a herd of blind followers. They see Lucifer (for Luciferians) or Satan (theistic satanists) as a liberator because he does not want us to grovel at his feet. He wants us to think for ourselves, to grow spiritually and mentally. And to many they believe in Apotheosis, developing your inner divine spark into a black flame (godhood). Many view that science, technology, and human advancement in general are some aspects of humanity which we can credit to Satan and/or Lucifer, or at least the idea behind them if you view them as archetypes. Ok, I've decided to do links. I don't agree 100% on each of their content, but it should help to explain some.

http://theisticsatanism.com/varieties/FAQ-TS.html (very informative site from Diane Vera)

http://www.spiritualsatanist.com/art...an/theism.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0GrCFtwuPI (John Allee, he's kind of a strange guy, but very intelligent)

http://solarphallic-cult.org/gnosticluciferian.html

As I said before, these philosophies are by no means my only focus. Just influences on my path. Like I said, I also follow Panentheism (the belief that god is the sum of all things, yet greater than the sum) and Germanic Heathenism or Odinism to some.

[WickedKitchen]

NonServian, that show was pretty cool. It's narrated by Morgan Freeman (great voice) and it's a new science show on Discovery Science. The first one was good.

http://science.discovery.com/tv/through-the-wormhole/

Maybe heaven and hell are the same place. All depends how it effects you [so far as that theory goes]. Maybe it's a nut-job idea, but it's not any further out there than any of the other ones. I mean, wouldn't it be torturous to see others have that what you cannot obtain? Happens all the time. Others bask in lavishness, and seemingly w/o a care in the world. Many of us yet are caught in the middle.

[sgreger1]

Well, if you equate Lucifer with Satan, then yes... it would be one form of Luciferianism. Particularly Gnostic Luciferianism. And I do identify with parts of this philosophy as well. They basically see the Judeo-Christian god as the demi-urge (an oppressive/malicious deity) while they see Lucifer as a liberator of humanity. It comes down to the old adage that history is written by the victors and that Lucifer got a bum rap.

As far as I why I have chose the dark. I believe in a balance, you cannot appreciate nor recognize the other in of itself without the contrast of it's polar opposite. However, I feel that every person's essence is derived from either one side or the other. I have gravitated towards the darker nature of things ever since I was a child. But I still enjoy a warm spring day and listening to the birds sing. But when the moon is out, the dogs are howling, and the fog begins to rise from the fields is when I really feel alive.

By the way Sgreger, I'm glad you liked that Hicks' quote so much that you made it your signature. Don't say I never gave you anything

I knew about that hicks quote but I couldn't for the life of me recall the wording enough to be able to google it, but now you posted it and I was like "oh this is perfect for a signature". Your check is in the mail.


So what is their theory on why satan is the liberator but God is the oppressor. I could see how God would be the opressor, since in theory oppression only exists because he created it, but what has Lucifer really done to anyones benefit, assuming we are believing in the fairtale land of angels and demons.

I mean in theory, wouldn't any attempt at liberating the people or overthrowing God be futile considering God is the creator and created both lucifer and the concept of liberation and overthrow?

Does you model bump God down from a god to just a guy in robes or how does this work?

[NonServiam]

I am not currently affiliated with any organized religion.

I was raised Roman Catholic and followed through confirmation. Got married in a Catholic church too. I really gave up on the "church" about eight years ago. I still an undecided on a creationism theory. It seems plausible, and I'd like to believe that when we die it's more than just like switching off a computer. Maybe it's not.

Did anyone watch "Through The Wormhole" on the Science channel the other day? The first episode was pretty much about "God" or our perception of it at least. It was quite interesting.

During that show I had a thought: What if this is the pinnacle? What if we are in what is called heaven/hell and this is THE place. Is it possible that we as humans have [evolved?] to be the most intelligent "things" in the universe? Conventional wisdom believes that we are probably primitive compared to what we might find out there somewhere, but we don't really know yet. I'm on the side that there's so much more out there that we would not be able to understand currently, but like I said...nobody knows. Ha! That would be a pisser...if we die and find out that we really were in heaven and are not going to be reincarnated to some other place all the while we were anguishing about how to get to "heaven". Like you, I have many questions.

That show sounds right up my alley. I know one thing, if planet earth is partly the realm of heaven, then that is false advertising.

[WickedKitchen]

I am not currently affiliated with any organized religion.

I was raised Roman Catholic and followed through confirmation. Got married in a Catholic church too. I really gave up on the "church" about eight years ago. I still an undecided on a creationism theory. It seems plausible, and I'd like to believe that when we die it's more than just like switching off a computer. Maybe it's not.

Did anyone watch "Through The Wormhole" on the Science channel the other day? The first episode was pretty much about "God" or our perception of it at least. It was quite interesting.

During that show I had a thought: What if this is the pinnacle? What if we are in what is called heaven/hell and this is THE place. Is it possible that we as humans have [evolved?] to be the most intelligent "things" in the universe? Conventional wisdom believes that we are probably primitive compared to what we might find out there somewhere, but we don't really know yet. I'm on the side that there's so much more out there that we would not be able to understand currently, but like I said...nobody knows. Ha! That would be a pisser...if we die and find out that we really were in heaven and are not going to be reincarnated to some other place all the while we were anguishing about how to get to "heaven". Like you, I have many questions.

[NonServiam]

Thanks, I knew what luciferianism was but didn't understand how it would be plytheistic. The luciferians I believe are the ones who thought lucifer had been wrongly cast out of heaven and it was god's bad, but you obviousely subscribe to a different version.

But considering lucifer represents 1 part of a two part system in nature (light and dark), I am curious why you choose dark?

The bible only references lucifer in the context of a spiritual being once in Isaiah 14:3–20, but the rest of the time the word appears, it is used to refer to the morning star with no relation to the devil

Well, if you equate Lucifer with Satan, then yes... it would be one form of Luciferianism. Particularly Gnostic Luciferianism. And I do identify with parts of this philosophy as well. They basically see the Judeo-Christian god as the demi-urge (an oppressive/malicious deity) while they see Lucifer as a liberator of humanity. It comes down to the old adage that history is written by the victors and that Lucifer got a bum rap.

As far as I why I have chose the dark. I believe in a balance, you cannot appreciate nor recognize the other in of itself without the contrast of it's polar opposite. However, I feel that every person's essence is derived from either one side or the other. I have gravitated towards the darker nature of things ever since I was a child. But I still enjoy a warm spring day and listening to the birds sing. But when the moon is out, the dogs are howling, and the fog begins to rise from the fields is when I really feel alive.

By the way Sgreger, I'm glad you liked that Hicks' quote so much that you made it your signature. Don't say I never gave you anything

[tom502]

sgregor- look at these little Chick like tracts, they are a hoot(and true)
http://www.luciferianliberationfront...ml#Anti-Tracts!

[NonServiam]

I just found this link, these are pretty good:

http://www.luciferianliberationfront...ml#Anti-Tracts!

Yep! That is definitely the group I was thinking of. I don't agree with them, but I'm glad you might find something interesting there.

[sgreger1]

Which Luciferian groups talk about aliens, the illuminate, etc? Any links?

Léo Taxil (1854–1907) claimed that Freemasonry is associated with worshipping Lucifer.

Edit: It is also a popular belief that when our politicians go to behemian grove, they are taking place in a luciferian/satanic ritual to the owl Molech. Ive seen the videos and it is pretty weird if you ask me.