For all who serve or have served .....

[Zero]

7) Just because a soldier is "doing his job", doesn't oblige him to discard his own conscience.

8) "Just following orders" is not an excuse anymore than ignorance of the law is.

[snusjus]

World dominance, yes, but I wouldn't say it's in support of free-market capitalism at all. They use those words, of course, but even the greatest stretch of imagination couldn't call our current global economy a free market. Not by a long shot. International serfdom is more like it.

America may not use direct military force to instill free-trade capitalism, but the IMF and World Bank use methods of imperialism and exploitation to further their globalist agenda. If a country refuses to cooperate with multinational corporations, it is labeled as an "evil commie" dictatorship and usually falls to the American machine or is simply isolated (look at Cuba). However, America has used military force to force free-trade capitalism in several continents and countries (look at Central and South America, for example).

On a different discussion, I think soldiers and veterans should educate themselves and see what is really going on in the American government. If they simply follow orders and ask no questions (which the military trains soldiers to do), the world will keep going the way it is. Thankfully, there have been veterans that have spoken out against the Bush administration for lying about the reasons for military operations; I hope more servicemen and women follow in their steps!

[Zero]

My point was that the "free trade" which the IMF, World Bank, USAid, etc, all force on the world is not really free trade or free market at all. They use those words, but corrupt their meaning. I agree that things have gone terribly wrong in a lot of countries because of this hegemonic expansionism, but was pointing out that there is a real school of economics which deals with "the free market" but which is not what is being done around the world. Real free market principles are based on the exclusion of violence from economic transactions - that the only way I get something from you, or that you get someting from me, is if we both agree to the exchange. That's a far cry from the farce of paper money and funded partisan militas.

Thankfully, there have been veterans that have spoken out against the Bush administration for lying about the reasons for military operations; I hope more servicemen and women follow in their steps!

Aye. I salute these guys!

http://ivaw.org/
http://www.vaiw.org/

Quoted from ivaw.org:
Reflections and Hope on Veterans Day

While it is fitting that our nation reserves a special day to honor the sacrifice and commitment of our warriors, it also serves to highlight how we, as a country, have fallen short of caring for our veterans, reintegrating them back into our communities, and demanding that our military be used responsibly and only as a last resort. Over 1.7 million men and women of the U.S. military have served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and many of them now struggle to cope with physical and emotional injuries, with family relationships strained because of prolonged separation, and with finding employment during an economic recession.

Members of Iraq Veterans Against the War know that in order to truly honor our veterans, we must listen to them, not just on Veterans Day, but on the other 364 days as well. It is for each other, our military brothers and sisters, and for our country that IVAW works every day to share our experiences, to challenge the predominant narrative of war as heroic and glorious, and to expose people to the brutal reality and true human costs of modern warfare.

[mjfst]

I am a little late to this one apparently.

Guys -Zero appears to be a pot stirrer. Believe me you won't get anywhere discussing, "debating" or arguing with him. I don't doubt his sincerity that he believes his way of thinking is the right or logical way but I do take issue that he feels the need to $#!t on a simple thread honoring the fallen. In very poor taste to say the least.

[snusjus]

My point was that the "free trade" which the IMF, World Bank, USAid, etc, all force on the world is not really free trade or free market at all. They use those words, but corrupt their meaning. I agree that things have gone terribly wrong in a lot of countries because of this hegemonic expansionism, but was pointing out that there is a real school of economics which deals with "the free market" but which is not what is being done around the world. Real free market principles are based on the exclusion of violence from economic transactions - that the only way I get something from you, or that you get someting from me, is if we both agree to the exchange. That's a far cry from the farce of paper money and funded partisan militas.

Perhaps there has been a miscommunication between us. When I use the phrase "free-trade", I am referring to the unrestrained freedom of globalist corporations which let them do whatever they wish; the exact opposite of fair-trade. The phrase "free-trade" is quite a contradiction!

[Zero]

There is a miscommunication, that much I agree. What you call "unrestrained" I see as being very restrained by highly unfair and undemocratic institutions. I'm trying to suggest that fewer restrains in this system - a move to genuine free-trade (which is really the only form of fair trade) - would improve the horrible system we have now. I'm trying to stress the difference because free market capitalism gets all the blame for what is really state-sponsored corporatism. Then when anyone suggests free capitalism as a solution they get booed out of the room by people who don't know what the hell they're talking about and who equate capitalism with the evil that's done around the world by criminals in suits.

[Dead Rabbit]

If the world economy collapses, and we go mad max, I'm telling you guys right now, I'm gonna get Lord of the Flies on lil Zero and relentlessly pick on him because I can.

All of this, is, of course, evidence of a personal flaw in myself....but **** it.

[Zero]

You mean you'll try to take my shit, vigilante like? :lol: :lol:

Dude, if we go mad max, you would best expend your efforts on the sheep - the multitude of softies who will certainly suffer complete psychological breakdown when their visa stops working. I have plans for the eventuality of economic collapse - land, fresh water, armaments, energy. My homeland is a frozen boreal lanscape which you are welcome to attempt to invade. I would suggest a good reading of Napoleon's history, however. I think he made a similar mistake. :lol: