Alex Jones vs Piers Morgan - 1776 Will Commence Again' If Guns Taken Away

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  • OregonNative
    Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 647

    #121
    Sir, I hope you will not take my post as disrespectful.
    Not at all good sir. I appreciate the ability for us to have an open & adult discussion about the subject.



    No disrespect intended here, but "opinions" about the right to own firearms concern me about as much as someone else's opinion about who I ought to be allowed to marry or let eat in a resturant I might own or let sleep in my house. It is my right and not subject to the opinion of others. As in "shall not be infringed". But even without the Constitution, I would still have the natural right to self-protection and arming myself however I see fit. The founders simply wanted to recognize the natural right by mentioning it. Thank you, founders.
    No disrespect taken. I believe if people want to own whatever firearms they want, then by all means they are more than welcome to go ahead and prepare for the apocolypse. I personally believe that the average citizen doesn't have a need for AK varients, M4s, MAC10s, etc, it is however none of my business to impose my beliefs on others. I don't have the right to suggest that someone else has no right to own these firearms just because I don't think they are necessary.


    I don't have a problem with that, in fact, I think it should be even easier.
    I respect your thoughts about this, but extreme ease of access only makes it easier for criminals to gain access to firearms.

    I would recommend training just so you can use them safely for your own protection and that of others, but I would reject the idea that this should be a "law". If someone uses a firearm (or their fist or a rock) to hurt someone or does so with negligance, than they should face liability.
    While I agree that people should face some sort of punishment for their actions, generally a rock/fist won't kill someone unless they are very intent to murder. I've heard/seen many horror stories about idiots who have no knowledge of firearms accidently killing someone because they had no idea about what they were doing. With things as deadly as firearms I think it's a matter of social responsibility for people to be required to take a class. It's the least the government could ask. I mean, people have to take/pass tests to drive a car right?

    What right does the government have to stop the private transfer of goods? None. The attempt to do so is under the "interstate commerce" clause of the Constitution. My own state rep introduced the "Alaska Firearms Freedom Act". Basically pointing out that firearms manufactured and sold within our own border are no business of the federal government. Only when the firearm travels across state lines does the federal gov even have slim grounds for oversight, but I would take exception to that. Not only is private transfer "right" it is a right, as in "shall not be infringed".
    With the ability to transfer firearms without any sort of regulation, people who are forbidden to own firearms gain easy access to them. I could have been a felon and bought as many guns as I wanted at these flea markets and no one would have said anything about it, because they'd have no way of knowing. I don't think that's right.

    What about SUVs, chainsaws, motorcycles over 850ccs, ribbed condoms, malt liqour, or salt without iodine in it? I love all those things but some people don't. I hate those spinner rims, rap music, tootsie rolls, and those ugly bald cats, but I don't want them banned or not for sale if someone wants to buy them and someone else wants to sell them.
    Considering people require a license to drive an SUV, & motorcycles (and I'm not aware of any dirtbikes over 800ccs), these things are not items that can be *easily* used to massacre a room full of people. Granted, a very determined person could do some damage with a chainsaw, or a kitchen knife, but their ability to kill is much lower than if they were to use a firearm. As far as vehicles though, these require licenses with the exception of dirtbikes/ATVs. They require licenses for a reason, as well as passing a government mandated test.


    Sir, I think your statements here make some broad assumptions about those of us who stand for the natural right of self-protection. I myself have been the personal victim of gun violence and also used a firearm to protect my own life. I have been a resident of one of those cities you mention. People like Roy Innis, NRA Board Member, have lost family to gun violence (2 sons in his case) and still fight daily for civil and natural rights. We know that when only police and violent criminals have firearms, the rest of us will suffer. When I went to Oakland last year, my first stop after the airport was the Home Depot for a carpet knife and a framing hammer. Cause I knew that I, a peaceful free citizen, would not be allowed to protect myself by the police while the police would be unable to protect me as they were too busy protecting San Fran-rich-co and not poor white trash who visit Oakland . Protection is my right, and my responsibility.
    I believe in your right to carry a gun if you feel it is necessary. As I mentioned, I own firearms myself, and have been required to carry them. I just believe firearms need to be controlled a lot better than they are now. Oakland is a scary place, and I don't blame you for doing what you feel was necessary.

    I think that the violence in the street has a lot to do with drug prohibition. Ending the Drug War will end much of the violence the same way ending alcohol ended the violence surrounding Prohibition. The flow of illegal drugs and the flow of illegitimate violence are connected at the hip in the same way as during the years in which America was denied booze by a voting majority. The violence involved between turfwars between gangs, the theft of property, and retaliation for both are all failures of the Drug War.
    I agree 110%. Drugs are the reason for the large majority of violence, especially in Oakland. The drug war has failed, and something needs to be done about it. I'm 110% pro legalization.


    You seem like a good person and a honest man. You are indeed entitled to your own opinion. I just wanted to respond to some of these opinions and I hope I have done so in civil manner.
    Thanks, and the same for you. You were able to discuss this as an adult without screaming and yelling. I appreciate the mature discussion.

    Comment

    • Zimobog
      Member
      • Jan 2013
      • 585

      #122
      Oakland is a scary place, and I don't blame you for doing what you feel was necessary.
      I went to this great Thai resturant when I was there. You had to ring the door bell, they looked thru the slot to make sure you weren't a bad person, then you got to go inside to live jazz and Thai food.

      It was like a speak-easy with drunken noodles.

      Comment

      • OregonNative
        Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 647

        #123
        Originally posted by Zimobog
        I went to this great Thai resturant when I was there. You had to ring the door bell, they looked thru the slot to make sure you weren't a bad person, then you got to go inside to live jazz and Thai food.

        It was like a speak-easy with drunken noodles.
        Sounds awesome! Jazz music & Thai food?!

        Comment

        • Crow
          Member
          • Oct 2010
          • 4312

          #124
          Pad Thai and Jazz?! Sign me up!
          Words of Wisdom

          Premium Parrots: only if the carpet matches the drapes.
          Crow: Of course, that's a given.
          Crow: Imagine a jet black 'raven' with a red bush?
          Crow: Hmm... You know, that actually sounds intriguing to me.
          Premium Parrots: sounds like a freak to me
          Premium Parrots: remember DO NOT TURN YOUR BACK ON CROW
          Premium Parrots: not that it would hurt one bit if he nailed you with his little pecker.
          Frosted: lucky twat
          Frosted: Aussie slags
          Frosted: Mind the STDs Crow

          Comment

          • Bigblue1
            Banned Users
            • Dec 2008
            • 3923

            #125
            Originally posted by Zimobog
            I would say they have the same natural human right to own firearms, a right that is denied by their governments. Not that I think America ought to do anything about it, just saying.




            Sir, I hope you will not take my post as disrespectful.



            No disrespect intended here, but "opinions" about the right to own firearms concern me about as much as someone else's opinion about who I ought to be allowed to marry or let eat in a resturant I might own or let sleep in my house. It is my right and not subject to the opinion of others. As in "shall not be infringed". But even without the Constitution, I would still have the natural right to self-protection and arming myself however I see fit. The founders simply wanted to recognize the natural right by mentioning it. Thank you, founders.

            "Shall not be infringed", as in not regulated. If you would not like me carry a firearm/knife/playboy mag/snus in your house, I can respect that. But that is where it ends.

            I don't have a problem with that, in fact, I think it should be even easier.

            I would recommend training just so you can use them safely for your own protection and that of others, but I would reject the idea that this should be a "law". If someone uses a firearm (or their fist or a rock) to hurt someone or does so with negligance, than they should face liability.

            What right does the government have to stop the private transfer of goods? None. The attempt to do so is under the "interstate commerce" clause of the Constitution. My own state rep introduced the "Alaska Firearms Freedom Act". Basically pointing out that firearms manufactured and sold within our own border are no business of the federal government. Only when the firearm travels across state lines does the federal gov even have slim grounds for oversight, but I would take exception to that. Not only is private transfer "right" it is a right, as in "shall not be infringed".

            IWhat about SUVs, chainsaws, motorcycles over 850ccs, ribbed condoms, malt liqour, or salt without iodine in it? I love all those things but some people don't. I hate those spinner rims, rap music, tootsie rolls, and those ugly bald cats, but I don't want them banned or not for sale if someone wants to buy them and someone else wants to sell them.

            I take it then sir, that you are some sort of LEO?

            Sir, I think your statements here make some broad assumptions about those of us who stand for the natural right of self-protection. I myself have been the personal victim of gun violence and also used a firearm to protect my own life. I have been a resident of one of those cities you mention. People like Roy Innis, NRA Board Member, have lost family to gun violence (2 sons in his case) and still fight daily for civil and natural rights. We know that when only police and violent criminals have firearms, the rest of us will suffer. When I went to Oakland last year, my first stop after the airport was the Home Depot for a carpet knife and a framing hammer. Cause I knew that I, a peaceful free citizen, would not be allowed to protect myself by the police while the police would be unable to protect me as they were too busy protecting San Fran-rich-co and not poor white trash who visit Oakland . Protection is my right, and my responsibility.

            I think that the violence in the street has a lot to do with drug prohibition. Ending the Drug War will end much of the violence the same way ending alcohol ended the violence surrounding Prohibition. The flow of illegal drugs and the flow of illegitimate violence are connected at the hip in the same way as during the years in which America was denied booze by a voting majority. The violence involved between turfwars between gangs, the theft of property, and retaliation for both are all failures of the Drug War.








            You seem like a good person and a honest man. You are indeed entitled to your own opinion. I just wanted to respond to some of these opinions and I hope I have done so in civil manner.
            Hate to quote a wall of text but god damn if this post doesn't make perfect sense. And You in Europe remember they first took your guns then they took other rights like the ability to use the snus you want to use. And other rights I assume. They always do these things incrementally. Which as sgreger illustrated isn't that threatening at first but as more and more of it goes you tend to want to protect what you have left. I don't think the europeans will ever get it because you are the model of control and had these natural rights taken from you long ago. I'm just gonna say that I don't want to live like you guys do and would rather die than lay down and be that way. Nothing against you all. But you do come on here and bitch about your government not allowing you to buy snus but don't see the correlation. I just can't wrap my mind around that fact.......

            Comment

            • Roo
              Member
              • Jun 2008
              • 3446

              #126
              Personally I think that anyone -- anytime -- doesn't really have shit-all to say about how other countries go on about their business until they have been there and spent time experiencing the lives and getting close to understanding the cultural identities of its citizens. This sentiment is not directed at any one person and applies to many discussions we've had in the past and will surely have in the future. I honestly think that anyone, anytime, who thinks their way of doing things is flat-out better than everyone else's inherently needs to venture further away from home for a spell and return to either reaffirm or re-evaluate their position.

              Comment

              • Crow
                Member
                • Oct 2010
                • 4312

                #127
                Originally posted by Roo
                Personally I think that anyone -- anytime -- doesn't really have shit-all to say about how other countries go on about their business until they have been there and spent time experiencing the lives and getting close to understanding the cultural identities of its citizens. This sentiment is not directed at any one person and applies to many discussions we've had in the past and will surely have in the future. I honestly think that anyone, anytime, who thinks their way of doing things is flat-out better than everyone else's inherently needs to venture further away from home for a spell and return to either reaffirm or re-evaluate their position.
                Well said, me Rooski.
                Words of Wisdom

                Premium Parrots: only if the carpet matches the drapes.
                Crow: Of course, that's a given.
                Crow: Imagine a jet black 'raven' with a red bush?
                Crow: Hmm... You know, that actually sounds intriguing to me.
                Premium Parrots: sounds like a freak to me
                Premium Parrots: remember DO NOT TURN YOUR BACK ON CROW
                Premium Parrots: not that it would hurt one bit if he nailed you with his little pecker.
                Frosted: lucky twat
                Frosted: Aussie slags
                Frosted: Mind the STDs Crow

                Comment

                • Bigblue1
                  Banned Users
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 3923

                  #128
                  Bullshit! I don't need to live under an authoritarian queen' ass kissin country to know that's how I don't want to live. You'd be surprised and at this rate most likely be surprised how much it does/ and is going to suck. I want nothing to do with it. You couldn't pay me to visit Britain at this point. Eff that shit..../

                  Comment

                  • Bigblue1
                    Banned Users
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 3923

                    #129
                    It's not the turn of the 20th century. We do have the internets. Not necessary to visit to know it' not what you want. Big Difference from vacationing and residing........

                    Comment

                    • wa3zrm
                      Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 4436

                      #130
                      sgreger1... great to see you back!

                      As far as gun control stuff goes... we've all seen it before...

                      If you have any problems with my posts or signature


                      Comment

                      • Zimobog
                        Member
                        • Jan 2013
                        • 585

                        #131
                        So long as we all never end up sounding like Piers Morgan and Alex Jones, I think things will be alright on Snuson.

                        Chuck was a hell of a guy.

                        Comment

                        • Zimobog
                          Member
                          • Jan 2013
                          • 585

                          #132
                          Ah, Roo. Te Ruski? Oychen preyatna. I would love to visit Russia since I can see it from my house.

                          I would love to visit anywhere, truthfully. Until then I will have to aquaint myself with other cultures by getting to know people who have immigrated here. I have met folks from all over the planet.

                          I dont really see there being "countries" per say. That seems a most outdated colonial concept. Absolute individual freedom is a new concept, and people from many different parts of the world have forged it and refined it. People like Von Mises and von Hayek from Austria, Rothbard from America, Friedman who's parents were Hungarian, Adam Smith from Scotland, Bastiat from France, Rand from Russia all have helped add to its beginnings.

                          There is no such thing as a "forest" it is just many individual trees. And the is no nation just individual people. These people all are born with the same rights as me.

                          I dont ever want anyone to think I condone force or violence to convince another that it is true that all people are born free.

                          Comment

                          • Bigblue1
                            Banned Users
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 3923

                            #133
                            And just for clarity it's not the people of Britain I wouldn't want to meet. I just would not be able to stand all the cameras watching me and getting arrested for carrying a 3 inch folding blade in my pocket. It's the government I couldn't tolerate. I'm a social guy who likes a pint or three and I'm quite sure I'd fit in quite well in any local.....

                            Comment

                            • Skell18
                              Member
                              • May 2012
                              • 7067

                              #134
                              Originally posted by Bigblue1
                              And just for clarity it's not the people of Britain I wouldn't want to meet. I just would not be able to stand all the cameras watching me and getting arrested for carrying a 3 inch folding blade in my pocket. It's the government I couldn't tolerate. I'm a social guy who likes a pint or three and I'm quite sure I'd fit in quite well in any local.....
                              Not at three pints you wouldn't, just get laughed at The pub code says its a 5 pint minimum to fit it for those from Europe, and 10 for americans hehe

                              Comment

                              • Bigblue1
                                Banned Users
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 3923

                                #135
                                Originally posted by Skell18
                                Not at three pints you wouldn't, just get laughed at The pub code says its a 5 pint minimum to fit it for those from Europe, and 10 for americans hehe
                                I was being modest.

                                Comment

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