NRA calls for armed police officers in every school

[Mr. Snuffleupagus]

Stupid argument. They were killed by Nazi and communist regimes and as casualties of war.

I don't see the extermination today in Britain or any other civilized nation with gun control.

Just another argument from the Militia, White Pride, Conspiracy, Crowd. It's getting quite old.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

China has school attacks too, but far fewer deaths, gun control works

http://shanghaiist.com/2012/12/15/the_lo...se_sch.php

...

The fact is they were killed by their government after being disarmed. Just because you don't see extermination today in Britain or elsewhere is a stupid argument. I don't appreciate you lumping me into some crowd you don't like because I'm smart enough to not trust the government. The government is not looking out for our best interest as you know damn well. And the only thing around here getting old is your constant partisan blathering


George Santayana: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

[texastorm]

Joe you just cant ban crime out of existence, laws are for the law abiding, criminals dont care, and crazies cant care.

Maybe someone should look into why we treat crazies more "normal" today than we ever have. Come on people now smile on your brother everybody get together try to love a school killer right now. Now pass that doobie and lets make some laws preventing the law abiding from having easy access to anything they are likely to be responsible with. Lets start with tobacco, we know it kills, so people should not be allowed to have it! Then we will repeal those stupid laws that made weed legal in two states... right Joe?, because someone is likely to be irresponsible with it. I mean its been proven that if a crazy person gets high he might do crazy things, same with guns if a crazy person gets his hand on a gun he might use it, therefore responsible people should never be allowed to have one or the crazies might get it.

Seriously this argument is silly. You should never ban anything that is useful to law abiding citizens... period.

If I am going to be in favor of legalizing pot, which I dont smoke, I also have to be for keeping gun ownership legal, which I only own two that haven't been fired in years. Just because I dont need something doesn't mean other people wont need such a thing. I am for keeping booze legal, guns legal and making pot legal, I am for leaving abortion to the choice of each woman.

In other words I am for freedom, what people do with their freedom even if it conflicts with mine at times and I and my children might die, is still better than a world with no freedom.

[Joe234]

I would prefer having armed and trained civilians in the schools than officers. Like a percentage of teachers/administrators. We are already paying them to be there.

"In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 in from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others were rounded up and exterminated because they were unable to defend themselves.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981; 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979; 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, 1 million educated people, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th century because of gun control: 56 Million.

You won’t see this data on the US evening news or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it’s too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are ‘citizens’. Without them, we are ‘subjects’. "

http://www.bayareagunvault.com/a-little-gun-history

Stupid argument. They were killed by Nazi and communist regimes and as casualties of war.

I don't see the extermination today in Britain or any other civilized nation with gun control.

Just another argument from the Militia, White Pride, Conspiracy, Crowd. It's getting quite old.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

China has school attacks too, but far fewer deaths, gun control works

http://shanghaiist.com/2012/12/15/the_lo...se_sch.php

On December 14th 2012, two schools on different sides of the world were attacked by men wielding weapons. In one, 22 children were injured but none died; in the other, 27 young boys and girls were killed*. The difference? The second killer had a gun, the first didn't.

A spate of attacks on schools in China began in March 2010 and carried on into 2011. Given the recent attacks in Guangxi and and Henan this year, I think it's fair to say the 'spree' has continued. However, in all those attacks, knives or other edged-weapons were used. As Andrew Sullivan points out, there were a total of 21 fatalities in all of the Chinese attacks over a two year period (24 if you include the attacks in 2012). The recent shooting in Newtown, Connecticut alone left at least 27 people dead.

The root causes behind such attacks or rampages are largely the same in both China and the US: stress, depression, anxiety, and, most of all, shamefully poor mental health care. All of these factors should and must be treated, but we can't get away from the fact that the vast difference in the respective deaths toll is based on one factor alone, gun control.

Commentators in the US and elsewhere will hold up the tragedy in Henan and use it to say "See, these attacks happen everywhere", and indeed, the potential for massacres, attacks, and rampages of the sort that happened in Henan and Newtown is inherent in every society. But societies which allow their citizens easy access to firearms, of any type, are placing their citizens at a far higher risk of death and injury than those that do not.

*Figures as of 6am, 15th December

[Crow]

I'm curious... What is your solution? What would you propose? Repeal of the Second Amendment?

[Joe234]

If they had an armed guard on duty he/she may have been on the other side of the school. Having an armed guard would likely prevent me or you from trying to shoot a school up. Someone bent on killing little kids would find a way around it. If a person don't really care what happens to them they can cause a lot of damage.

"Columbine Had an Armed Guard, Virginia Tech Had a Police Department, Ft. Hood was a Military Base....

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/arc...-military-base


Would you put armed guards in all movie theaters and shopping malls too?

[Bigblue1]

It's not a new thing and it doesn't take guns. Like lx said it is over reported and sensualized by the media. Here ya go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

I'll post em as I find em prolly after the holiday

[SnusoMatic]

I have two kids and a wife who work in schools. My kids are teachers and my wife works in a school office. Every time there is a school shooting it makes me worry about them. I have thought about this problem more than I want to. I do not know the answer either.

In China they have school killings what seems like all the time. They don't have guns. The killers use every weapon you can dream up besides guns to kill with. I ain't trying to say it is a reason to prove guns don't kill people yada yada yada either. It's just a fact that some morons are bent on killing and the weak are their targets.

My gripe with school administrators is they just do things to shut parents up. I hear first hand how the security rules are unforced. But when a high profile shooting happens then they change some stuff and make sure parents know but months later school side doors are open. Right now they are spending tons of money building to force everyone coming into schools to pass through school offices. Please! In the latest shooting the principal was the or one of the first killed. From what I have heard about that shooting the school had excellent security. I don't think they could have done any more to prevent the shooting than they did.

If they had an armed guard on duty he/she may have been on the other side of the school. Having an armed guard would likely prevent me or you from trying to shoot a school up. Someone bent on killing little kids would find a way around it. If a person don't really care what happens to them they can cause a lot of damage.

You should hear the stories I hear about how bad kids act. I am talking about elementary kids. I don't have a solution but I am pretty sure I know "why" we have school shootings. The way some kids are raised these days.

[texastorm]

True some have a higher murder rate if you are talking of Columbia or some lawless nation.

As for the, guns in event of government tyranny, argument; I once bought it myself. Now I find
it kind of ridiculous. Your argument would allow tanks and rocket launchers. The right to bear arms.

A tyrannical government can be overthrown with pitchforks. Or just bodies as Gandhi showed. Or with limited
arms as is happening in Syria. The US Government would simply zero in with drones and blow anyone with an AK-47
out of the water!

So what your saying here is you already surrender to a future that might include a tyrannical government? Nice... I however have to differ in opinion with you, I would rather die like a lion trying than follow like a sheep waiting for slaughter.It sounds like you would hand over you weapon and wait for your free bullet.

These things (hopefully) will not happen in the estimated 30 years or so I may have left, however I dont want your childrens children to suffer because liberals of today thought that total government control was a "good thing". It has never been a good thing, and I would hope you can at least understand that everyone on this planet seems to cheer for a cause, and many of those people cheer for government control of that cause, and if they all win? Total control is then inevitable.

I mean seriously just simply look at the EU with their snus ban... it's illogical, harmful to the citizens that cant find alternatives to help them truly quit smoking, and yet the big government over their simply turns a deaf ear on the few that try and make it right. You think for one second if the USA completely outlawed guns at some point that anyone could get a real way to defend themselves from the criminals who WILL have guns?

I can see you side, its sounds like Utopia... Come on people now smile on your brother... etc etc... Humanity will never be safe from humanity.

[Mr. Snuffleupagus]

I would prefer having armed and trained civilians in the schools than officers. Like a percentage of teachers/administrators. We are already paying them to be there.

"In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 in from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others were rounded up and exterminated because they were unable to defend themselves.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981; 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979; 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, 1 million educated people, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th century because of gun control: 56 Million.

You won’t see this data on the US evening news or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it’s too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are ‘citizens’. Without them, we are ‘subjects’. "

http://www.bayareagunvault.com/a-little-gun-history

[lxskllr]

True some have a higher murder rate if you are talking of Columbia or some lawless nation.

As for the, guns in event of government tyranny, argument; I once bought it myself. Now I find
it kind of ridiculous. Your argument would allow tanks and rocket launchers. The right to bear arms.

A tyrannical government can be overthrown with pitchforks. Or just bodies as Gandhi showed. Or with limited
arms as is happening in Syria. The US Government would simply zero in with drones and blow anyone with an AK-47
out of the water!

I don't have a problem with people owning tanks and rocket launchers. What's the difference between that, and some twat who buys a Prius, runs their stupid mouth on their iTurd, and kills someone on the road?

Who do you think the "government" is? Who is running the drones?

[Joe234]

I have always liked this phrase...

Can a pen, in the hands of a good man, prevent a firearm from getting in the hands of an ill man?


To take that a step further you cannot take the intent of murder away by making one method more challenging. While the USA does have a high rate of gun deaths it does not have the highest murder rate. And lots lower than many places with other methods of killing.

My main worry however is not for me, but for those younger than me. If all the worlds governments work hard to disarm each countries citizens, then the governments can become totalitarian. Many of you here ignore history, ignore oppression, ignore why Americans proclaimed ourselves free (taxation is only one factor). Taking away our ability to defend ourselves reduces our most prized right... freedom. Relinquishing personal defense to a government employee makes us lazy and ignorant, and expecting that government employee to save us will only serve to strengthen the government each time it fails. One day you wake up and your country is your prison. Keep in mind however that that is not likely in my lifetime, but as each right is slowly stripped away, at some point it has to happen, and when the population has no ability left to revolt, the revolt is oppressed. Game, set, match... Your grand kids will be making bombs with whats left of the unbanned home chemicals trying to fight the well armed oppressive government.

Think its not possible or unlikely... then you better research some history... no society or government ever completely survives. The USA will go down someday, I say let it take just a bit longer to erode whats left of it. It was once the greatest place on earth and everyone knew it, now we are already just another country.

True some have a higher murder rate if you are talking of Columbia or some lawless nation.

As for the, guns in event of government tyranny, argument; I once bought it myself. Now I find
it kind of ridiculous. Your argument would allow tanks and rocket launchers. The right to bear arms.

A tyrannical government can be overthrown with pitchforks. Or just bodies as Gandhi showed. Or with limited
arms as is happening in Syria. The US Government would simply zero in with drones and blow anyone with an AK-47
out of the water!

[OregonNative]

I don't really know how I feel about guns anymore. I grew up in a pro-gun (not crazy pro-gun) family, I own several firearms myself, and I've worked several jobs that required I carry a firearm. I do however think guns are way to easy to get in this country. I don't think weapons such as handguns & assault weapons (AK/M16 Varients, etc) should be available to the public. At least not without a proper background check, required training, and a few other requirements that make them hard as hell to get.

Guns just make killing people way to easy. That sounds like a stupid thing to say, but it's true. Everyone has a shitty day, and humans are unstable. Guns + Unstable minds = bad mix. I've had quite a few friends die from firearms, one of the most absurd reasons was this, a friend went to a club, accidently spilled a drink on a guy, they argued, my friend left, and the guy followed him and shot him in the parking lot.

What kind of bullshit is that? There was no other story to this, it was over a spilled drink & some angry words.

I understand shooting for sport, but no one REALLY needs an M16 w/ 100 round barrel drum magazine.

[texastorm]

I have always liked this phrase...

Can a pen, in the hands of a good man, prevent a firearm from getting in the hands of an ill man?


To take that a step further you cannot take the intent of murder away by making one method more challenging. While the USA does have a high rate of gun deaths it does not have the highest murder rate. And lots lower than many places with other methods of killing.

My main worry however is not for me, but for those younger than me. If all the worlds governments work hard to disarm each countries citizens, then the governments can become totalitarian. Many of you here ignore history, ignore oppression, ignore why Americans proclaimed ourselves free (taxation is only one factor). Taking away our ability to defend ourselves reduces our most prized right... freedom. Relinquishing personal defense to a government employee makes us lazy and ignorant, and expecting that government employee to save us will only serve to strengthen the government each time it fails. One day you wake up and your country is your prison. Keep in mind however that that is not likely in my lifetime, but as each right is slowly stripped away, at some point it has to happen, and when the population has no ability left to revolt, the revolt is oppressed. Game, set, match... Your grand kids will be making bombs with whats left of the unbanned home chemicals trying to fight the well armed oppressive government.

Think its not possible or unlikely... then you better research some history... no society or government ever completely survives. The USA will go down someday, I say let it take just a bit longer to erode whats left of it. It was once the greatest place on earth and everyone knew it, now we are already just another country.

[Joe234]

Imagine how many students will decide against a career in teaching if they had to be armed
teachers or administrators. I guess it would attract those with a cop like mentality. We could
put our returning troops through college for a profession in teaching and security.

Or we can put a cop in every school like the NRA wants and let the taxpayers pick up the tab.
Let's see? We can't afford textbooks but we can afford armed police?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Over 9,000 Murders by Gun in US; 39 in UK

Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241

Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2009: 9,146
Number of Murders, Britain, 2008*: 648

(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders)

Number of Murders by[pdf] firearms, Britain, 2008* 39
(equivalent to 195 US murders)


*The Home office reported murder statistics in the UK for the 12 months to March 2009, but these are 12-month figures).
For more on murder by firearms in Britain, see the BBC.


The international comparisons show conclusively that fewer gun owners per capita produce not only fewer murders by firearm, but fewer murders per capita over all. In the case of Britain, firearms murders are 48 times fewer than in the US.


Do hunters really need semi-automatic Glock hand guns? Is that how they roll in deer season? The US public doesn’t think so.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


In 2011, the latest figure available from the Centers for Disease Control,


Accidental discharge 851
Suicide 19,766
Homicide 11,101
Undetermined Intent 222

Total: At least 31940 people died from gun injuries in 2011.

Also 258 people were killed during legal intervention, most of them due to guns.

Guns were involved, but were not the primary cause of death:
-in 2 fatal accidents.
-in 6 homicides.

Previous years:
2010 31,328 people
2009 31,177 people
2007 31,224 people
2004 29,569 people

[halocog]

I don't know about the issue of armed guards in schools. Here in Kentucky, most schools with over 1000 students have police on site anyway. One thing to think about though, Columbine had armed guards/police on site.

The media is getting out of control with the whole "assault weapons" thing. Just as they do with everything else that happens. As it's been said before in this thread, the "assault weapons" available to the public are just semi-auto just like a lot of hunting rifles and handguns. Same parts inside, they just look a lot cooler. Apparently to the media, this means they do more damage somehow. It's like calling a Dodge Charger or any sort of sports car an "assault car" because it goes faster and looks scary. Ban assault cars now!