LSD 'helps alcoholics to give up drinking'

[Ansel]

:-o

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17297714

[WickedKitchen]

Ok so then it's Jack Daniel's for breakfast!

[precious007]

Can bet some of the largest LSD cartels has paid BBC to publish this news ;-)

One dose of the hallucinogenic drug LSD could help alcoholics give up drinking, according to "my ass" of studies performed in the 1960s.

lmao

Come on guys lets be frank here, do we want want alcoholics or do we want to see ****ed up brains walking on the streets, probably the crime rate would also increase and so on -

We just cannot have LSD given as a prescription drug to any given alcoholics under any circumstances -

Most alcoholics that have been drinking for more than a decade are most likely to have alcoholics dementia - Imagine how LSD would "improve" their dementia ....

I do study quite a lot of health research and news and I can only laugh my pants off sometimes

A drug such as LSD that can induce psychosis from a single dose cannot even come into the discussion - it's pathetic.

The most common adverse reaction is a temporary (less than 24 hours)
episode of panic --the "bad trip". Symptoms include frightening illusions/hallucinations (usually visual and/or auditory); overwhelming anxietyto the point of panic; aggression with possible violent acting-out behavior;depression with suicidcal ideations, gestures, or attempts; confusion; and fearfulness to the point of paranoid delusions.

This is pretty much what LSD does on the psychological side of things -

[Roo]

Ever tried it precious?

[precious007]

Ever tried it precious?

to be honest I've tried a small bit

but didn't have much reaction to it

[shikitohno]

Pathetic would be the best way to describe the "research" you've allegedly done precious. The chances of having a bad trip can be minimized by taking proper precautions concerning set and setting. The idea that one dose of LSD can cause you to suddenly develop mental illness is spurious, at best. There is evidence that in individuals who already do have mental illnesses, taking LSD can cause symptoms to worsen. There is not evidence, however, that an individual who was previously healthy has any significant chances of seeing a mental illness they didn't already suffer from suddenly manifest itself as a result of taking LSD.

Furthermore, you completely ignore relevant bits of information about this study. Specifically the parts where they mention that the studies this new analysis was looking at were studies in psychotherapy. That is, these studies were looking at the use of carefully controlled doses of LSD administered in controlled conditions by professional therapists trained in psychology, not simply alcoholics who one day decided to eat some acid and walk around town and later told their psychiatrist that they quit drinking as a result, like you paint it in your response. These doses were not necessarily even potent enough to produce the audio and visual hallucinations for which the drug is best known. They were given with the intent of eliciting the introspection and openness to discuss difficult personal issues which LSD is also known for producing.

Your claims to study quite a lot of health research either indicate that you really need to improve your research and study methods, or that you're knowingly speaking as if you were an authority on a topic you know nothing of. You clearly have no firsthand experience of the effects of LSD, are regurgitating disproven myths about it, and have demonstrated either a woeful failure to comprehend the studies in question, or a malicious distortion of the facts concerning them. Come back and talk when you actually have some idea what you're speaking of.

[precious007]

Pathetic would be the best way to describe the "research" you've allegedly done precious. The chances of having a bad trip can be minimized by taking proper precautions concerning set and setting. The idea that one dose of LSD can cause you to suddenly develop mental illness is spurious, at best. There is evidence that in individuals who already do have mental illnesses, taking LSD can cause symptoms to worsen. There is not evidence, however, that an individual who was previously healthy has any significant chances of seeing a mental illness they didn't already suffer from suddenly manifest itself as a result of taking LSD.

Furthermore, you completely ignore relevant bits of information about this study. Specifically the parts where they mention that the studies this new analysis was looking at were studies in psychotherapy. That is, these studies were looking at the use of carefully controlled doses of LSD administered in controlled conditions by professional therapists trained in psychology, not simply alcoholics who one day decided to eat some acid and walk around town and later told their psychiatrist that they quit drinking as a result, like you paint it in your response. These doses were not necessarily even potent enough to produce the audio and visual hallucinations for which the drug is best known. They were given with the intent of eliciting the introspection and openness to discuss difficult personal issues which LSD is also known for producing.

Your claims to study quite a lot of health research either indicate that you really need to improve your research and study methods, or that you're knowingly speaking as if you were an authority on a topic you know nothing of. You clearly have no firsthand experience of the effects of LSD, are regurgitating disproven myths about it, and have demonstrated either a woeful failure to comprehend the studies in question, or a malicious distortion of the facts concerning them. Come back and talk when you actually have some idea what you're speaking of.

easy big fella'

I actually quoted above from www.nimh.nih.gov/

it definitely looks like you just like arguing without having a clear and concise knowledge ;-)

Read it again if you will - and if you haven't taken LSD or don't have much experience with hallucinogen substances, I'm not sure why you're even posting

The most common adverse reaction is a temporary (less than 24 hours)
episode of panic --the "bad trip". Symptoms include frightening illusions/hallucinations (usually visual and/or auditory); overwhelming anxietyto the point of panic; aggression with possible violent acting-out behavior;depression with suicidcal ideations, gestures, or attempts; confusion; and fearfulness to the point of paranoid delusions.

just sayin'

[shikitohno]

And I'm saying you're distorting the facts about the study, and painting a one-sided picture. You make it sound in your post as if people take LSD once and go insane for life, which is an absolutely unfounded claim. You highlight only the potentially adverse results of taking this drug, and then go on to act as if this is indicative of all or most peoples' experiences with your objections to this treatment being further studied or possibly implemented in the future. Your statement,

A drug such as LSD that can induce psychosis from a single dose cannot even come into the discussion - it's pathetic.

is spreading blatant and disproven lies as if they were true, which is something I will not tolerate. Unlike you, I do have a fair bit of experience with both LSD and other hallucinogenic substances. I also demonstrate a basic level of understanding of the methods used in the analysed studies, something which you either failed to understand or have deliberately misrepresented.. Sorry, but don't act condescending when I call you out on BS.

Despite your claims to the contrary, you are not in any sort of position to speak on this topic. Go read up on how this sort of therapy was being carried out. Educate yourself on both the substance and the particular studies which you're talking about. Then you can come back and give us an informed opinion on the topic. Bad trips do happen, but every trip does not result in a bad one. Your source isn't necessarily wrong, but you are misapplying their statements in too general a fashion for me to take you seriously in any way. Perhaps you're first post was poorly phrased to convey what you intended, but as it reads at present, my criticism remains valid. You are speaking on a topic you are rather ignorant of, and make it worse by attempting to provide some sort of credentials to make it seem as if you actually know what you're talking about.

Also, I suppose the irony failed to strike you when you, who admittedly had only one experience with LSD that didn't actually effect you, called into question why others should post unless they have experience with the substance themselves.

[precious007]

And I'm saying you're distorting the facts about the study, and painting a one-sided picture. You make it sound in your post as if people take LSD once and go insane for life, which is an absolutely unfounded claim. You highlight only the potentially adverse results of taking this drug, and then go on to act as if this is indicative of all or most peoples' experiences with your objections to this treatment being further studied or possibly implemented in the future. Your statement, is spreading blatant and disproven lies as if they were true, which is something I will not tolerate. Unlike you, I do have a fair bit of experience with both LSD and other hallucinogenic substances. I also demonstrate a basic level of understanding of the methods used in the analysed studies, something which you either failed to understand or have deliberately misrepresented.. Sorry, but don't act condescending when I call you out on BS.

Despite your claims to the contrary, you are not in any sort of position to speak on this topic. Go read up on how this sort of therapy was being carried out. Educate yourself on both the substance and the particular studies which you're talking about. Then you can come back and give us an informed opinion on the topic. Bad trips do happen, but every trip does not result in a bad one. Your source isn't necessarily wrong, but you are misapplying their statements in too general a fashion for me to take you seriously in any way. Perhaps you're first post was poorly phrased to convey what you intended, but as it reads at present, my criticism remains valid. You are speaking on a topic you are rather ignorant of, and make it worse by attempting to provide some sort of credentials to make it seem as if you actually know what you're talking about.

Also, I suppose the irony failed to strike you when you, who admittedly had only one experience with LSD that didn't actually effect you, called into question why others should post unless they have experience with the substance themselves.

it's clear you are not aware of LSD psychosis

and even trying to deny it when the studies clearly show that LSD induces psychosis exists ;-)

Bad trips do happen, but every trip does not result in a bad one.

what if the trip ends up in a full blown psychosis in the mental yard?

Lysergic acid diethylamide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide

There are some cases ofLSD inducing a psychosis in people who appeared to be healthy before taking LSD.

While these panic reactions more often than not are resolved successfully over time, prolonged anxiety and psychotic reactions have been reported. The mental effects can cause psychotic crises and compound existing psychiatric problems.

[chainsnuser]

Sorry, I have no expertise at all about LSD and I'm sure there's much junk science told to us (just like with tobacco), but to use LSD to quit drinking sounds much like to drive out demons with the help of Beelzebub.

Cheers!

[shikitohno]

The findings supported a model of LSD psychosis as a drug-induced schizophreniform reaction in persons vulnerable to both substance abuse and psychosis.

Yet again, you ignore what's not convenient to spreading mistruths. Note that my first post said there is no evidence of psychosis suddenly manifesting in people who otherwise are healthy, with no known mental health issues. Your link says exactly what I told you. Individuals already dealing with or vunerable to these problems can see LSD make it worse. I admitted that already. Your claim that otherwise completely healthy people will suddenly go insane, on the other hand, is demonstrably false. The site you now cite says as much with their qualification, "in persons vulnerable to both substance abuse and psychosis."

You are citing corner cases, and presenting them as if they were representative of the normal experience. You still have yet to refute this. LSD is non-addictive (physically speaking, some people will still abuse it, before you cite two people who once ate acid every day), has an LD50 that effectively means no general user will ever have access to the amount that they would need to cause them harm, and is one of the safest recreational drugs currently available.

Additionally, you still ignore a crucial piece of information in this. This therapy is not people being given 500mcg doses at their house. It's people being given the minimal effective dose, in carefully controlled settings, under the supervision of trained professionals who can handle any issues resulting from this. Until you actually address this, and start discussing this in the proper context, you're not even worth arguing with. By the standards you're currently employing, condeine shouldn't be used at all as a pain killer, because you can eat a ton of it and wind up ridiculously intoxicated and with a lovely new opiate addiction. Context is important. Actually drawing conclusions supported by what you cite is important. Representing data accurately (ie, not presenting statistically unlikely outcomes as typical) is also very important. You fail on all three counts.

[sgreger1]

Can bet some of the largest LSD cartels has paid BBC to publish this news ;-)

There are no "LSD" cartels. LSD isn't addictive and isn't very popular (most users aren't recurring users and don't use often) so there's not much money in it.

Come on guys lets be frank here, do we want want alcoholics or do we want to see ****ed up brains walking on the streets, probably the crime rate would also increase and so on -

LSD and other hallucinogens have long been known to cure other addictions. For example, the guy who started Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) did so after a psychedelic experience.

We just cannot have LSD given as a prescription drug to any given alcoholics under any circumstances -

Based on what, precocious` expert opinion? It's not like you give someone a prescription to take LSD regularly. There is no chemical action in LSD that breaks addiction, however LSD allows you to really delve into your subconscious and examine your life, it allows you to truly and fully see "Omg, i'm a f*** up, this needs to change" and it really makes you take it to heart. That is the method by which it "cures" you, via epiphany rather than by forcing your body to not want alcohol. It's not like someone is going to be taking LSD twice a day for their life or something, so there is no risk here.

Imagine how LSD would "improve" their dementia ....

Except there is no basis to believe that would be the case, as it was not found in any of these studies. Those who are already prone to psychosis would not be given the treatment, as only those with existing issues run the risk of having a negative reaction.

I do study quite a lot of health research and news and I can only laugh my pants off sometimes

There is almost no evidence that the efficacy of natural supplements claimed on the bottles are true, yet you believe that, but when an actual scientific study regarding the efficacy of LSD comes out you disregard it based on cultural biases.

[sgreger1]

it's clear you are not aware of LSD psychosis

and even trying to deny it when the studies clearly show that LSD induces psychosis exists ;-)



what if the trip ends up in a full blown psychosis in the mental yard?

If your basis for denying this proven and effective treatment is that one in a million will have a bad trip or lasting anxiety issues, than you may as well stop taking every single vitamin supplement, medication, or therapy available on the market today. Even with the "risks" described above (which are highly contested), it is still safer than anything in your medicine cabinet.

[shikitohno]

If your basis for denying this proven and effective treatment is that one in a million will have a bad trip or lasting anxiety issues, than you may as well stop taking every single vitamin supplement, medication, or therapy available on the market today. Even with the "risks" described above (which are highly contested), it is still safer than anything in your medicine cabinet.

Nevermind that this source he cites is also in line with what I said earlier, as well; LSD can aggravate conditions for those already suffering from mental illnesses, or at risk for them. This is something I mentioned in the first post I made. Precious still prefers to generalize this as, "OMG, everyone who takes acid will become clinically insane, without a doubt!"

Thanks for bringing some sanity into this thread, sgreger.

[sgreger1]

it's clear you are not aware of LSD psychosis

Lol, from the abstract of the study you posted above:

"The findings supported a model of LSD psychosis as a drug-induced schizophreniform reaction in persons vulnerable to both substance abuse and psychosis."
"However, the rate of parental alcoholism for LSD psychotics far exceeded that for schizophrenics and the general population"

So we are talking about individuals who already have problems may find their situation worsened. This is the same as any other drug on the market.

and even trying to deny it when the studies clearly show that LSD induces psychosis exists ;-)

... in people already prone to psychosis.

what if the trip ends up in a full blown psychosis in the mental yard?

They are administered in a controlled setting with controlled doses, far less than is required to make one "trip out" and go into oblivion as you describe, thus negating any real possibility of your worst case scenario happening. Set and setting are integral to an LSD experience and they administer the doses in an environment that pays heed to both of those factors.