Gas Prices and The Oil Situation for America+Poll

[victoryredchevy]

Well, I know some folks are paying less and some are paying more. I live in Fort Smith, Arkansas(pop. 80,000+, roughly) and the average price for gasoline here is around $3.85 per gallon. Now, I know many people around the U.S. and the world may be paying much more than that, but this is unusually high and a real pain in the ass here in Arkansas. The cost of living is low here anyway, so the gas prices and the rising prices of everything else really has been a pain for me personally. I'm curious to hear first hand from my fellow American and foreign snusers what kind of gas prices and other rising prices you're dealing with. Boy, things here in the States seem to be headed down the shitter fast if things don't change. I'm having to look for a better paying job due strictly to the price of gasoline. I know many Americans favor Obama in the upcoming election, but he scares the hell out of me, personally. His resolution to the gas prices is not to try to lower them, but to "put more money in people's pockets". Right.I have no problem with a man with any type of African American decent being the next American president, but I'd like him to make sense to me. Obama keeps preaching change, but I feel his type of change is the wrong change. He seems very ambitious and he has a silver tongue and I just really don't like him. My solution to the oil issue for America is to follow Newt Gingrich's plan. Drill here, drill now and pay less. The longer America waits to start drilling on our own soil and relying on our own oil, the worse this is gonna get. All the while, keep pushing to convert America over to alternative fuel in the near future. The problem right now is foreign oil. If we can at least start relying on our own crude oil, it'll be a temporary fix for many, many problems. It's not a long term plan by any means, but I think it's the right direction. There is plenty of oil on our soil to at least get us out of this rut. As long as the government doesn't get too cozy with that and then forgets about the need for coversion to fuel alternatives. I'm really worried about the road America is headed down. I've listened to more AM political radio than I ever imagined I would. I'm really interested in what is going on and what is going to happen and every American should be. Old, middle-aged or young. What is going on right now has a world to do with what happens in your's or your children's or grand children's future. So, I'll step down from my soapbox and open up the podium.

[lxskllr]

I'm against drilling for more oil, as it's just a temporary bandaid for a larger problem. We need to find a new fuel source that doesn't require petroleum products. I'm very much for higher gas prices, the higher the better. There's nothing a hit to the pocket book to inspire creative thought ;^)

[victoryredchevy]

That's exactly what I'm saying though. I'm not against alternative fuels, but switching to an alternative fuel isn't going to stop the high gas prices. I have to drive here. There's far too much highway and interstate here in Arkansas for carpooling or walking or biking. Alternative fuels are already in the works. Lowering gas prices for common, blue collar people who can't afford it is NOT in the works. I'm sorry to sound like a narrow minded redneck, but the only thing I'm worried about right now is lower gas prices. If that can happen, then maybe I can afford an efficient vehicle that soley relies on an alternative form of fuel. It's not the average joe's fault that China and India are just as big or bigger than the U.S. in the fight to be top dog in demand. The government ignored it and now the people are paying for it. I just don't see the harm in using ANWR, the Rocky's and off shore drilling to lower gas prices and get the economy rolling again. How do you suppose America will convert to alternative fuels if a vast majority can't afford to buy a brand new vehicle that runs on it only? I'm not saying we should ignore alternative fuel. I'm saying the economy is shot because of the price of foreign oil and we could be using our own. How does that not make sense? Plus, we're talking years to totally convert the U.S. into an alternative fuel dependant nation. I don't believe that is the answer to the problem. Not right now, anyways. It's great for the future, but the future is now and right now alternative fuels are not lowering the prices of foreign oil and people struggling to even buy food aren't exactly rushing out to buy vehicles powered by alt-fuels.

[lxskllr]

This is payback for all of the years fuel was cheaper than it should have been. There's no reason gasoline should be cheaper than milk, as it still is. I don't want to pin the blame on you, as it falls on all of us equally, but the first warning shots were fired in the 1970s. In reality we had an idea of future problems back in the 1940s with gas rationing for the war. Nothing since then has indicated that more fuel would be magically produced. We've known quite awhile that petroleum is a finite resource.

We had a chance to work closer to where we live, develop and purchase more fuel efficient cars, and add public transportation options. We squandered our reprieve, and drove vehicles that were inappropriate to the task, did nothing to further public transportation, and wasted plastics on disposable crap that would be better used for semi durable goods, or power for our country.

Additional drilling could(will) have a huge impact on our environment, for marginal gains. Gas prices may drop a bit, but without the pressure we'll go back to our complacency and nothing will get done, just like the last 30 years. The transition won't be easy for everyone, but for our own good it's better for it to happen now than later.

[victoryredchevy]

I absolutely agree with you 100%. I just dont believe that the answer for America's oil problems right now is alt-fuel. Yes, it is the long term answer. I can see what you're saying: Forget about drilling more, let the American get tired of paying an arm and leg per gallon for gas thus giving the idea of alternative fueled vehicles a swift kick in the ass. That conversion will be a long and strenuous process, though and the economy has alot to do with it, too. The economy isn't going to fix itself until gas prices go down or American are making enough money to make up for them. Yes, drilling here is a quick fix. If there's someway the economy can be fixed other than lowering gas prices that'd be great, but I don't see that happening. Gas prices seem to be the seed of all this economical struggle. How will Americans switch to alternative fuels if they can't afford it? It would be up to the government then and I'm not too confident in our government. Yes we had warnings in the 40's and 70's, and yes we knew this day would come and did very, very little about it. The fact is here we are again and we've got to do something. Is totally converting to alternative fuel right now the real answer? Why not take care of gas prices and the economy first and possibly make the transition more affordable. I honestly wish what you're saying would be much more easy to do and I know what I'm saying really sounds assanine to you. I'm just searching for answers. Honestly, when I find a better job and can afford to buy a flex fuel or hybrid vehicle, I will. Because alot of responsibility in this matter falls squarely on the shoulders of the average American, too. The government is corrupt, ignorant and stuck, but they can't ignore a severely pissed off America.

[snusfather]

Put the screws to the oil companies that are posting record high profits. Establish a cap on gas prices that adjusts for inflation. You want to sell gas to 300 million Americans that are addicted to it, you sell it at the price we demand. They will still make plenty of money. :twisted:

[victoryredchevy]

Put the screws to the oil companies that are posting record high profits. Establish a cap on gas prices that adjusts for inflation. You want to sell gas to 300 million Americans that are addicted to it, you sell it at the price we demand. They will still make plenty of money. :twisted:

I like the idea of that, but it's the government's own fault that the oil companies are spiking prices. The government puts a 15% tax on oil and the oil companies only make a 4% profit on it. You're right, though. They should work it out amongst each other to benefit the people, but I'm afraid those days are long gone. I like your idea. It makes sense.

[sagedil]

FWIW, oil from America would not be any cheaper. Oil is a commodity that is priced internationally. If we could suddenly start producing so much oil that we significantly add to the world's oil supply, then maybe. But I have never seen any numbers that suggest that would happen. A slightly more reasonable solution is put enough pressure on the Saudi's and anyone else that has spare capacity and get them to produce more.

Reality, we need to reduce demand. But even if we are successful here, that won't necessarily mean that the price goes down, if China and India and everyone else keep on using more and more. The one thing that could cut prices in half or more, is a world wide recession that sharply cuts demand across the board. Would be painful, but we probably deserve it. American's at least, have been spending like drunken sailors way too long. Looks like it is time for pay back

[snusfather]

Thanx Victoryredchevy. Sagedil, I'm shure if we caped prices the oil companies would apply all sorts of nasty preshure to the Saudi's to ramp up output. But, in a larger picture sense, I agree with you that we are about due for an "economic downturn". Capitalist economies are boom and bust economies. The wealthy will be ok till the next upturn, it's the working classes that stand to suffer (I don't mean to come off like a communist, but...). I think India and China are the next big up and commers. They will step on the world just like we did on the way up, just like everyone before us did.

[Zero]

Well, first of all :

There is no oil left in America. This is the whole problem. It was all pumped out and sold for pennies in the first half of the 20th century. American oil passed its peak in 1970 and there's nowhere near enough left in the country to even remotely support consumption.

Do you know who your top two suppliers of oil are? Most would pick OPEC countries, but it's actually Canada and Mexico. The reality is that demand for oil is growing faster than supply. Capping prices doesn't work and can't work in that situation because you have to deal with the fact that the rest of the world wants to buy oil too. Who would ever sell it to you for less than they sell it to everyone else? You can suggest government subsidy, but where does that money come from? It's injected into the money supply by the Federal Reserve and causes the sort of massive inflation you're seeing now.

I feel there's some fundamental misunderstandings about the nature of oil supply and the basics of economics, here. A lot of the price inflation you're seeing has to do with Bush - his reckless and immense spending on the war in Iraq has been paid for by what amounts to printing money out of thin air. You can do this for small amounts of money (imagine a counterfeiter who tries to buy a magazine with a fake $10 bill) and nothing really changes, but when you start making hundreds of billions of dollars (and more!), eventually the world figures out that there's a lot more bills floating around than there were before.

But when there are more bills around then demand goes up because more people have pieces of paper that they want to buy things with. Since all this money jumped onto the market so fast, production hasn't really changed, so you have more people with more money trying to buy the same amount of stuff. The only thing that can happen is that prices are forced to rise. At the same time, the value of those pieces of paper go down because they're not as rare as they were a few years ago. Against most currencies in the world, the US dollar has lost between a THIRD to HALF of its value since 2001. All of that was essentially stolen by the people who got to use the new money first - before people could figure out what had happened.

And you know who those people are? The military industrial complex - the people who sold the things to the government to wage this ridiculous war. People like Halliburton, Kellog-Brown & Root, Lockheed Martin, the Carlisle Group, etc, etc.

Now take note that Bush, Cheney, and their friends have all maintained financial interest in these companies. Cheney used to run Halliburton and still holds stock from them. When they get rich, he gets rich. Starting to see how this is all coming together?

Here's a good lecture which may teach some lessons about past problems trying to control wages and prices with disregard to the fundamentals of the economy and production. What you're suggesting with price controls is essentially economic Fascism and it simply doesn't work. What you need to do is kick the crooks out of office. Obama will be no better because he wants to waste all your money on stupid socialist programs that nobody can afford - inflation will continue to get worse because he'll have to print more money to pay for his good intentions. The sad thing is that he's not an economist and doesn't seem to understand or appreciate the fact that his plans will have the exact opposite effect to what he would like. There's no such thing as a free lunch.


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[reshumate]

Most of Europe is still higher than the US. Finally, we are catching up. Their gas has been over $4 a gallon for many years.

A. Find ways to drive less
B. Keep it under 65

It's a painful reality for most of America that gas will probably never be less than $3 a gallon again. A temporary fix is fine, but probably not realistic. We will all have to find ways to adjust.

[Zero]

^ this is true. The US has had cheap gasoline for two reasons :

1) Pre-1970 : The US produced its own oil, and pumped it out of the ground with such zeal, and sold it at such cheap prices, that it all dried up. Before 1970, gas was cheap.

2) Post-1970 : Collusive agreements with Saudi Arabia (engineering development contracts in exchange for oil-currency status of the US dollar, etc) meant that the US dollar was as good as oil for a long time. Anyone would take US dollars because they could always be traded for oil, and oil makes the world go around. Now, that is changing - in a big way.

For people who are more into comic delivery rather than dry lectures, I suggest watching Robert Newman - he'll make you laugh and make you think at the same time. I don't necessarily agree with his carbon-crazy ideas, but for the rest of it, it's a good summary of 20th century history.

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[smeden]

today 1 litre gas in denmark is around 11,55dkk =cirka 8.6 us$ gallon
and it hurts here to
and we are pumping more oil from the north see than we use
i belive the same goes for norway wery high prices and they are producing WAY more than they use

[spirit72]

I'm curious to hear first hand from my fellow American and foreign snusers what kind of gas prices and other rising prices you're dealing with.

We're averaging about $3.95-ish in Ohio, which seems about par for the course in the Midwest U.S.

It stinks, but to sum it up with a stupid film quote, "It's a big sh*t sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite".

Basically, with China and India industrializing, this is here to stay. I don't see gas at less than $3 ever again. And that will probably remain true even with the Middle East increasing production. There's simply too much demand. And, Zero and others are correct about drilling in the U.S. Even drilling in ANWR would make no noticeable impact in prices over the long term. What the movement to do so represents is Big Oil grabbing for every last buck they can grab.

No, there are very difficult economic times coming in the USofA, and oil prices are only one part of it. The biggest part of it is, as another poster put perfectly, Americans spending like drunken sailors and now having to pay the bill. This, in essence, is where nearly 30 years of Reaganomics and "Trickle-Down" have gotten us. The rich are now super-rich, the poor are now super-poor, and the middle class is in hawk up to its nostrils. When the savings rate in this country is -1% and most people are spending 150% of their gross, that is not a sustainable situation.

Those of us who have been careful to live within our means will weather the storm. Those who have not will learn to do so the hard way.

For myself, I think that a depression(and I think this will probably become one)might actually be good for the American character.

But every mushroom cloud has a silver lining, and there are some positives to it as well.

1)America's major cities will now be forced to come up with workable mass transit, as our love affair with the automobile becomes too high-maintenance. Hopefully this will be both intra and inter-city

2)High oil prices will incent Americans to move back into the cities from the suburbs, and cities will learn to build up rather than out.

3)As it becomes more expensive to import goods due to shipping costs, the American economy will likely return to being more local, which will benefit Americans in the long run.

4) We will be forced to develop alternative methods of generating energy. Nuclear will be a big part of that, and we'll have to solve the problems with that, too.

I know many Americans favor Obama in the upcoming election, but he scares the hell out of me, personally.

Given the alternative, I'll take him. This economy is something that Barack Obama cannot solve in a 4 or 8-year term. It will require Americans to completely reconsider their worldview and lifestyle. What we need to accomplish that is a leader that can inspire Americans to do so, and Sen. Obama has proven that he can do so.

I've listened to more AM political radio than I ever imagined I would. I'm really interested in what is going on and what is going to happen and every American should be.

Be careful with AM talk. You'll find something useful here and there, but it ends up being largely extreme one way or the other. Politically, I consider myself a Centrist--because when you dig through the big pile of BS that the Fascist Right and the Communist Left have flung at each other, you'll usually find the truth right there in the middle.

[desirexe]

This is one of those touchy subjects. The only observation I have noticed is that many people in other countries (outside of the U.S) drive their little 40+mpg cars. I don't know statistics of truck/suv owners in America, but I am sure it is an extremely high figure. My solution to the oil issue, turn Americans off their gas guzzlers and into something more eco friendly. Good luck there, increasing gas prices sure don't seem to deter truck sales.