Gas Prices and The Oil Situation for America+Poll

[Grim]

ok heres the truth.

yes we need a new reliable renewable fuel source. And there are alot of good things in the works but to be honest its gonna be awhile. 2018-2020 at the earliest.

We need to be more reliant on ourselves as a country to become more stable. Out sourcing all of our companies and giving away american jobs was retarded and anyone who supports out sourcing is not a patriot ... hes a terrorist.

For the time being... with the american economy in shambles, the worst president in US history in office we need to do something.

I say we must become self reliant and drill for our own oil and take the stress out of the lower to middle class mans pocket. To anyone out there who is rich and is like , " we shouldnt drill oil, lets just ride itout as the market will come down and we need to find a new alternative"... go F*** yourself.

Im sick and tired of wannbe eviromentalists who think they know everything. Think about it. How much do the propoganda anti-tobacco nazis piss you off because of the lies they use to control what people think.

Do yourself a favor and realize money controls the world.... as much as it sucks thats how it is and thats not going to change anytime soon. So until it does america needs to be self reliant and not so arrogant. We should at this moment in time drill for our own oil.

[sagedil]

The problem is, drilling for our own oil won't add nearly enough to the supply to have ANY impact on prices. The figures I have seen is that drilling off the coasts will reduce prices by about $0.02 per gallon. So it really is NOT about the money. If we started drilling in ANWAR today, it would be 10 years before it produces any oil, so that won't help either.

I have heard that the war in Iraq has added about $50 per barrel to the risk premium, so if we can get that straightened out, it will have a far bigger effect on the price of gasoline. Other than that, demand from China and India is what is driving this story. The amount of extra oil we could produce is but just a few drops compared to the worldwide output of oil. Sure it would be better keeping that money here, rather than giving it to the Saudi's, the Norwegians, the Venezuelans, and every one else who produces oil. But it WON'T affect what you pay at the pump.

[Zero]

Yeah, oil has rapidly becomes something you can't just "drill more holes" to go and get. Your whole premise, Grim, is based on the idea that the oil is there to be gotten - that doesn't seem to be the case. America stopped being oil self-sufficient in 1970, and that didn't happen simply because all the rich oil-baron Texans decided to stop being rich oil-baron Texans. The wells dry up and that's that - no more oil. As a whole planet we have been pumping more oil and burning more oil than we have been discovering for years. Most industrial nations have already passed their peak - that is to say that they have found all the oil there seems to be to find in their country, they have drilled and pumped it, and are now at the point where domestic consumption has outpaced domestic supply. It's really a game of chasing scraps around, at this point - or at least that's the way it seems.

Check the picture - the mauve bar shows how much oil a country makes - the blue bar shows how much of that production is exported. The difference between the blue bar and the mauve bar is consumption - a negative blue bar means that nothing is exported and the blue bar is entirely imports to satisfy local consumption.



If this graph can teach one lesson, it's that there's only one way for America to become self-sufficient with oil - and that's not to hopelessly keep drilling in search of more, but to reduce consumption dramatically. I see two ways to do that :

1) Domestically - US needs to change habits and culture. Driving around huge distances in personal vehicles for frivolous reasons with abysmal efficiency has to come to an end.

2) Military - it's enormous. The US military is so cartoonishly oversized as compared to the rest of the world that I think people forget just how much it all costs. Maintaining that superhero cold-war army, prepared to fight a phantom enemy that doesn't exist is costing the US an unthinkable amount of money and energy. This is probably the easiest way to save money - pare it down to something sensible and you would save enough money to practically build utopia on earth.

[Xobeloot]

I love reading threads like this. I am not going to chime in, as I cannot say anything that hasnt already been said. I do know that I can only laugh at my coworkers as they pull into work in their giant v8 trucks costing them hundreds a week to fuel. They all laughed at me when I showed up in my new 4cyl 35mpg go-kart. Guess I'm getting the last laugh now! One guy admitted to me that he spends more on gas in a month than I spend on my car, car insurance,and gas combined. My car has a 10 gallon tank and lasts me usually 1-1.5 weeks. This cheap little hyundai has become one of the best investments I have ever made.

[victoryredchevy]

Ok...if there was a way for every American that drives to get a hold of an alternatively fueled vehicle, . It seems like a stretch, but the automotive companies, even American brands(Chevrolet, Ford), are showing promising results when it comes to the alternatively fueled units. Even if we have to start on Hybrid's, it's ripe for the picking. E85, LNG, Propane and Biodiesel are all legitimate choices. Hell, use them all. I think I've had a change of heart over the past week about this whole thing. To me, the government should keep giving the tax incentives to people that volunteerely buy hybrids and NOW start working on some way to get an alternatively fueled vehicle to every driver and start creating jobs and producing these fuels and stickin them in the pumps at the stations and start making it law to drive these vehicles. It will be tough to follow through on this and it will be very demanding, but it will save much more pain in the future. Plus, America would be more independent with alternative fuels than with oil. Like sagedil said, oil is an international commodity. Alternative fuels, however, are not. I'm warming up to the idea of an E85 powered vehicle. Hmm.....we'll see.

[Xobeloot]

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/J9iWaCMbw60&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed>


Would be great.

[Xobeloot]

Here i another cool one

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GICYKU80SQA&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed>

[lxskllr]

I wonder what the catch is? It seems to me that a lot of educated people have been trying to find a viable way of making safe Hydrogen fuel. I wonder how a couple of hacks working in a garage have figured it out?

[TropicalBob]

I love the intelligence in this thread, shown in a variety of opinions. But Zero's words are most dead-on. Unfortunately, there's no snap-the-fingers' easy answer.

My worry now for the country, and world, is a Perfect Storm coming together, with 2.5 million farming acres under water in the American Midwest, China's agricultural problems, Australia's extended drought, the push for ethanol from food products, and -- most of all -- the surging cost of fuel to deliver everything, including food to stores.

Meanwhile, as you read this, 100 million people have little or nothing to eat today.

This is not an economic ripple we face. It's a tsunami that most people seem blissfully unaware of. It doesn't take much imagination to foresee food riots, attacks on governments, war in Iran, famine deaths in the millions, the collapse of auto giants who misread the writing that has been on the wall since Hubbert's Peak in the 70s.

Even a good President is going to have problems turning this hulking SUV called America from its hellbent path to the cliff.

[Zero]

I wonder what the catch is? It seems to me that a lot of educated people have been trying to find a viable way of making safe Hydrogen fuel. I wonder how a couple of hacks working in a garage have figured it out?

They just grabbed some random engineers to look impressed for the camera - there's nothing magical about what the guy did, it just looks cool and burns with an odd coloured flame. The total system efficiency of that rig he has would not be very high at all. I think the words "make fuel from water" gives the wrong impression of what's actually going on - the water is not the fuel, and the energy that comes out isn't free or very efficiently converted to mechanical energy.

[Grim]

Its already been stated though that although E85 has some promise its actually not that cheaper than oil. Now that may change in the future but the companys wanting to switch to it are stating that its not cheaper than oil in any regards.

[Grampy]

Ok...if there was a way for every American that drives to get a hold of an alternatively fueled vehicle, . It seems like a stretch, but the automotive companies, even American brands(Chevrolet, Ford), are showing promising results when it comes to the alternatively fueled units. Even if we have to start on Hybrid's, it's ripe for the picking. E85, LNG, Propane and Biodiesel are all legitimate choices. Hell, use them all. I think I've had a change of heart over the past week about this whole thing. To me, the government should keep giving the tax incentives to people that volunteerely buy hybrids and NOW start working on some way to get an alternatively fueled vehicle to every driver and start creating jobs and producing these fuels and stickin them in the pumps at the stations and start making it law to drive these vehicles. It will be tough to follow through on this and it will be very demanding, but it will save much more pain in the future. Plus, America would be more independent with alternative fuels than with oil. Like sagedil said, oil is an international commodity. Alternative fuels, however, are not. I'm warming up to the idea of an E85 powered vehicle. Hmm.....we'll see.

I have an E85 vehicle. My company car is a Chevy Impala with Flexfuel. With E85 gas, I get about 22 mpg on the highway. With 87 gas, I get about 28 mpg. No real savings there, just more stops at the pump.

[Grim]

I just want say a few more things.

First heres a simple problem.

While America is trying to go green its because of this factor.

Scientists find a so called "catostrophic" event. Then this gets to the media. The media airs the situation and over simplifies it. The american people hastily join for the cause and then the cycle reverses. This is true in almost all situations.

To be honest there are scientists who jump on the "Global Warming" band wagon...something ted turner jumped on in the early to mid 90s. While other scientists arent concerned. They say that the earth goes through warming and cooling cycles and has done so since the beginning of its creation. Take fo rexample the mini ce age in the 1800s which effected the whole entire globe. Temps in new England were in the 20s-30s during planting season. Other parts of the globe also experienced colder weather and it was actually snowing in the states as late as the June. This is recorded and documented and lasted for a few years. These things happen, and while Co2 emmisions dont help things, i believe everyone is looking for a scapegoat as to why things are happening. Hell i live in the south and for over a year now we are still in a major drought. The midwest is completely flooded and conditions arent looking too good.

Now who you believe is your decision. Whenever things go wrong people always want an explaination. While im not one to jump on the global warming bandwagon, i will say we do need to change our ways.

But we all know whats going to happen. Earth will begin to become overcrowded and the only solution to such a huge populous is a mass "die off".

If there are more inhabitants than a habitat can provide for there will be casualties. ALOT of them. In nature there will always be checks and balances and over population will reach and starvation will occur along with illness and other plagues.

[Marv]

There is a shitload of oil on US soil and in US waters. Drill it till it's gone. And in the meantime, build more nuke plants. The world will use oil until it's gone. Don't forget about the shale oil deposits in the US midwest that total almost as much as the crude deposits in the middle east.
Nuke energy is where it's at- The USS Ronald Reagan won't have to refuel for 20-30 years. Put a pellet in a car and it runs for the life of the car.
And don't even start on the environmental waste issue. The lead in the hybrid batteries and the mercury in the so-called eco friendlt CFL's are just as bad as anything.

Folks should listen to the, late-great, George Carlin on global warming, endangered species, and environmental pollution.

[Marv]

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