Gas Prices and The Oil Situation for America+Poll

[Zero]

^ I agree that the climate change hype seems to be largely hype, leveraged for political reasons. The oil situation, though, I'm more convinced is genuine - that there is a limited and declining resource available. Not all oil is created equal - yes there is oil in shales, just like Canada's tar sands, but this is dirty, difficult oil to extract. It takes almost as much oil to get it out and into a barrel as it produces - so if you're burning a barrel of oil to make 1.5 or 2 barrels of oil, it's not like you're exactly rolling in profits. Once it takes more oil to get the oil than you get oil out, then it doesn't matter how much oil is in the ground, you simply can't get it out without expending more energy than you'll gain from bothering in the first place (ie :you're just wasting energy). This is the problem with old wells and shales - eventually the oil becomes too difficult to get and it's just not worth it. On a fresh well you might get a 30:1 ratio of oil out versus oil in. On an average well you might get a 10:1 ratio and in shales and tar sands you get maybe 1.5:1 or 2:1 ratio. The economics are dramatically different and the actual amount of oil you can get out of the operation is much, much less than it may seem by raw numbers alone.

I mean, consider an analogy with water - if all of the nice, crystal clean ground springs were drying up and people were seriously considering trying to squeeze water out of sand and rocks...wouldn't that give you some indication that we were actually getting pretty close to exhausing our supply? When squeezing water out of rocks becomes a sensible option?

[Grim]

We as a part of the human race have become too dependant on way too many things.

I say screw oil and lets find other alternatives...whether global warming is real or not who knows. I tend to believe some of it is global warming while some is just a natural warming of the earth that has occured over and over and over in earths history.

What can you do when the politicians have stock in oil companies and one use to work for one. Hell you think politicians give a damn about the american people. of course not. They are in for money like everyone else in this world and only care about themselves.....THANK GOD THAT MORON IN OFFICE NOW CANT F*CK IT UP ANY MORE AFTER THIS YEAR. I HOPE HE GOES DOWN AS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE USA, AND I HOPE HISTORY BOOKS WILL TELL THAT STORY.

[Marv]

I am all for alternative energy like nuke energy and whatever may come of the LHC on the Franco-Swiss border that is getting ready to go into full swing. I think the LHC is great and will unlock a lot of mysteries in earth and universe. Though, I hope it's doesn't just spit out the number "42" if anyone knows what I mean.

Oh, BTW, currently enjoyinf a gold medal American beer and 3 portions of Knox. :shock:

[Craig de Tering]

I'm so sorry to have noticed this topic just now (I also just walked in from a party, *ahum*... so pardon the perhaps off-topic banter).

I know of two MoPar-crazy dutchies in the US (TX/AZ) who are having a very good time ($) shipping all the superfluous olde tyme V8 and slant-6 cars to Europe where our "cheap" LPG** and tax-less 25+ year cars suddenly make them a luxury commodity for us.


** = 50% butane and 50% propane in most EU countries. Otherwise consult the mighty Wiki. Which is still somewhat like US$4 per USgallon. But that's CHEAP to us over here ;-)

[victoryredchevy]

I AM still for drilling on US property. There's an assload of oil shell in the Rocky Mountains. I've heard it is restricted for us to drill right off our own damn coasts, but China could come over right next to America and drill for oil no problem. These fags who keep upholding restrictions and whining and crying about drilling obviously aren't middle-class, average joe, hard working Americans. Like before, I am still for the technological progression of alternative fuels and the vehicles, but that is proven to be better environmentaly. It, however, is not proven to be better financially for Americans. Who's to know how much an alternative fuel will be at the pump? Even if it is cheaper at first, the rich will get involved with it and price the hell out of it and get richer. Still, it should be agressively persued. I'm all for that. The problem is gasoline is still too damn expensive at this very time and I'm just making ends meet, working my ass off. So, forgive me if I'm not objective about this. I actually signed the Drill here, drill now, pay less petition. So, my opinion is, get the communist, left wing, extreme liberal assholes with there rediculous restrictions out of the damn way and get these oil drilling crews out on the job and get the refinerys fired up. The answer is not diving head first into either America's own resources or alternative fuels. They should coincide. The problem is the ****ing American government is so divided that it will never work that way. Earth to Government: Pull your thumbs out of your asses and do SOMETHING. I hate the US government with a passion and I hate candy ass, pansy dick liberals... I'm out.

[BiggieB]

Conserve yes, that's a nobrainer. However, I also think that we should allow the utilization of what resources we have now, as well as invest in new nuclear plants, and continue research on renewables. Keep all doors open! Drilling now won't have an effect for 10 years I hear the media say. Better late than never!

As far as comments like:

"Put the screws to the oil companies that are posting record high profits. Establish a cap on gas prices that adjusts for inflation. You want to sell gas to 300 million Americans that are addicted to it, you sell it at the price we demand. They will still make plenty of money."

Ludicrous. If you think the gas-lines in the '70's were bad, wait till you see the riots over the gas-shortages this would cause! The government should NOT be setting prices! The so-called best intentions of the government (usually having nothing to do with good intentions, and everything to do with good ballot results) usually cause the most harm. The price of gas has gone up because the demand is outpacing supply, and since crude prices increase, gasoline prices increase. Do you also demand price caps on food? You do realize that food prices have increased as shipping costs have increased, and as more arable land is being used for the completely asinine use of ethanol production. Evil, profiteering food companies anyone?

Profit is not evil, it is neutral. It motivates, it drives innovation. If you don't like the price, don't buy. If oil and its' products are personally repugnant to you, make the sacrifices you need to make to remove it from your life, don't impose your personal views on others with the gun of the government.

[BiggieB]

hehe, victoryredchevy, I share many of your views.

I do wonder at the wealth-envy comment that sounded like it came, no insult intended, but straight from a "candy ass, pansy dick liberal":

"Even if it is cheaper at first, the rich will get involved with it and price the hell out of it and get richer. "

How exactly do the rich price the hell out of something and get richer? Granted, multi-national corporations have tremendous resources, but if they "price the hell out of" something then nobody will buy it. Their prices are set based on their costs and, ultimately, the demand of the public. I see no foul there.

[victoryredchevy]

hehe, victoryredchevy, I share many of your views.

I do wonder at the wealth-envy comment that sounded like it came, no insult intended, but straight from a "candy ass, pansy dick liberal":

"Even if it is cheaper at first, the rich will get involved with it and price the hell out of it and get richer. "

How exactly do the rich price the hell out of something and get richer? Granted, multi-national corporations have tremendous resources, but if they "price the hell out of" something then nobody will buy it. Their prices are set based on their costs and, ultimately, the demand of the public. I see no foul there.

Me? Liberal? Haha...hell to the no on that junk. Nowhere near. I like to describe myself as more of a moderate conservative, no full on conservative either. Definately way more conservative. Dude, I'm from Arkansas and I live in the Bible Belt. Liberal, seriously? Envy? Not quite. Just missing being able to live confortably on less than impressive wages. Now due to the gasoline and the economy that's hard to do, anymore. That's not what I'd call envy. The rich would get richer is exactly what I meant. In order for these new fuels to really be pushed the companies working on the fuels have to get backing from investors and people of that nature. With those bigwigs having money invested in that stuff, that gives them lead way to pull strings and lobby for their own personal gain: Getting richer. I go to work Monday through Friday and make my money by using my hands. I'm not a liberal or anything even remotely close, like you assumed, and I'll vote for John McCain.

[kidstaxi]

Because, I am an uneducated hick from Tennesse this will short and to the point..

1. Todays pump prices 1 mile from my home $3.62
2. If you take Off-shore, Alaska, and Oil-Shale from Colorado,Utah, and Wyoming. America has more oil than the Middle-East. We have enough to be self sufficent for at least 50 yrs. I say tell the Arabs and Chavas to go suck a fat one.
3. Drill now and use it. Offer up tax breaks and money for any corp. or individual to invent a new and renewable source of energy. (the Paris Hilton plan)
4. Drilling is safer now than ever..The only spill in America in the last 30 yrs was from the Exxon Valdes incident. You can blame one drunk for that. Not 1 gallon of oil was lost during Hurrican Katrina, and she wiped New Orleans of the map.
5.Milk will always be higher than gas. It takes energy to produce and transport from the tit to the super market.
6. The oil companies are not to blame. Heck they find it, drill it, refine it, and transport it to the pumps. They make roughly 8 cents a gallon in profit. In Tennesse the State, Local, and Federal government make 32 cents a gallon off of it.
7. America also controls 85% of the worlds food...Maybe we should jack the prices up on the OPEC countries and tell them to feel thier bellies with thier oil. I bet prices would come down fast then. I was in Jordan 4 months ago. Filled up a full sized SUV, it cost me approx . 12 US dollars.
8. IMHO....Opec has BullSh*ted the world into a false sense in Low oil reserves. The EPA,Democrats, and Enviromental Extremist have stopped us from building refineries,have caused this whole problem.
9. When the Democratic Congress took over 2 yrs ago. Gas in Knoxville, TN was at $1.89 a gallon. It has been as high as $4.05, and now is $3.62. They are now on a 5 week vacation and did pass any bill for drilling or new energy. Republican Congressmen have been sitting in the dark on Capitol Hill for 5 days now. Wanting and willing to work something out.
10. If Barack Hussien Obama gets in the White House. The 5h1T will really hit the fan....
11. TEN YEARS!!! This is the biggest lie so far.. If Congress would lift the Off Shore Ban, the areas off the coast of California would be seeing Oil within 3 to 6 months. There are capped oil wells and the infrastucture is there to get it to matket. Alaska, the pipeline is already there too. We could see oil from there within 2 to 5 yrs. * IF BILL CLINTON DID NOT VETO THE DRILLING BILL, IN 1996. WE WOULD ALREADY BE GETTING OIL FROM THERE NOW AT FULL CAPICTY. Off shore of New England and the Mid-Atlantic states, Yes it would take about 10 yrs. There in not infrastructure there to support it.

[victoryredchevy]

Because, I am an uneducated hick from Tennesse this will short and to the point..

1. Todays pump prices 1 mile from my home $3.62
2. If you take Off-shore, Alaska, and Oil-Shale from Colorado,Utah, and Wyoming. America has more oil than the Middle-East. We have enough to be self sufficent for at least 50 yrs. I say tell the Arabs and Chavas to go suck a fat one.
3. Drill now and use it. Offer up tax breaks and money for any corp. or individual to invent a new and renewable source of energy. (the Paris Hilton plan)
4. Drilling is safer now than ever..The only spill in America in the last 30 yrs was from the Exxon Valdes incident. You can blame one drunk for that. Not 1 gallon of oil was lost during Hurrican Katrina, and she wiped New Orleans of the map.
5.Milk will always be higher than gas. It takes energy to produce and transport from the tit to the super market.
6. The oil companies are not to blame. Heck they find it, drill it, refine it, and transport it to the pumps. They make roughly 8 cents a gallon in profit. In Tennesse the State, Local, and Federal government make 32 cents a gallon off of it.
7. America also controls 85% of the worlds food...Maybe we should jack the prices up on the OPEC countries and tell them to feel thier bellies with thier oil. I bet prices would come down fast then. I was in Jordan 4 months ago. Filled up a full sized SUV, it cost me approx . 12 US dollars.
8. IMHO....Opec has BullSh*ted the world into a false sense in Low oil reserves. The EPA,Democrats, and Enviromental Extremist have stopped us from building refineries,have caused this whole problem.
9. When the Democratic Congress took over 2 yrs ago. Gas in Knoxville, TN was at $1.89 a gallon. It has been as high as $4.05, and now is $3.62. They are now on a 5 week vacation and did pass any bill for drilling or new energy. Republican Congressmen have been sitting in the dark on Capitol Hill for 5 days now. Wanting and willing to work something out.
10. If Barack Hussien Obama gets in the White House. The 5h1T will really hit the fan....
11. TEN YEARS!!! This is the biggest lie so far.. If Congress would lift the Off Shore Ban, the areas off the coast of California would be seeing Oil within 3 to 6 months. There are capped oil wells and the infrastucture is there to get it to matket. Alaska, the pipeline is already there too. We could see oil from there within 2 to 5 yrs. * IF BILL CLINTON DID NOT VETO THE DRILLING BILL, IN 1996. WE WOULD ALREADY BE GETTING OIL FROM THERE NOW AT FULL CAPICTY. Off shore of New England and the Mid-Atlantic states, Yes it would take about 10 yrs. There in not infrastructure there to support it.

Bro... You're my new best friend on this forum. I couldn't have said any of that better and I agree with all of it.

[kidstaxi]

[quotequote]Bro... You're my new best friend on this forum. I couldn't have said any of that better and I agree with all of it.[/quote]

Well, stick with me...I am sure to catch Hell for my comments...

[mel16]

There's so many factors involved with gas prices that there's really no real solution.

First, gas is taxed. Crude oil is a finite resource, and the laws of supply and demand apply. If we did drill for more oil, I remember seeing on CNN or something that it would only lower prices by like $0.10 a gallon. Inflation is usually around 2% a year, and even if we did use E85/E95, we don't have the technology to make that much ethanol. Biodiesel could work; I really don't know much about it. The best bet that I've seen so far is nuclear power plants which make electricity for hydrogen fuel. Hydrogen is usually made by (I think the term is electrolysis) applying electric current to water, which splits the molecule. So, if we do use hydrogen with oil/coal power plants, it really isn't solving anything. Hydroelectric and wind are great, but those don't work everywhere. The problem with nuclear power is that a lot of people don't like it.

I used to think about this a lot. But then, I decided that since there's no answer, I would just make it not be my problem. I bought a bike for $20 and now only drive my car when absolutely necessary, which is maybe once a week. Technically it still is my problem, because this affects the entire economy. But spending $5-10 on gas a week, I'm willing to ignore that.