"Americans are closet Socialists"

[Crow]

I found this video from Bill Maher's show, Real Time. I thought it was a good discussion about the subject, very informative.

Watch and discuss.

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The New Rules segment from earlier in the show (which is how the conversation got started in Overtime)

[Mawdryn]

Great...now you've started it!

Actually, without getting too far into my own personal beliefs, I do think those vids point out a distinct problem with the Republican constituency as a whole. Living in Alabama, I've watched for over 30 years as blue-collar working folks voted republican over and over again, even as it became obvious that they weren't voting in their own best interest. All they seem to be concerned about are social issues that can't be reversed...

Sometimes I think a republican presidential candidate could come out and say, "I'm going to put you on the street if you bring home less than 100k a year" and folks would still vote for them as long as they promised to repeal abortion and outlaw gay sex...

[GoVegan]

Great...now you've started it!

Actually, without getting too far into my own personal beliefs, I do think those vids point out a distinct problem with the Republican constituency as a whole. Living in Alabama, I've watched for over 30 years as blue-collar working folks voted republican over and over again, even as it became obvious that they weren't voting in their own best interest. All they seem to be concerned about are social issues that can't be reversed...

Sometimes I think a republican presidential candidate could come out and say, "I'm going to put you on the street if you bring home less than 100k a year" and folks would still vote for them as long as they promised to repeal abortion and outlaw gay sex...

Well said!

[lxskllr]

I don't know where to even start with all of this. He's absolutely right regarding Americans, but I don't know that emulating Europe is the way to go. USA as it is now vs Europe? I'll take Europe, but I think we can do better. The problem is nobody would want the changes that need to be made, and no one has the conviction to make the radical changes.

[truthwolf1]

was forced to pick something up from my local Walmart yesterday.

Yes, SOCIALISM is very alive and well in this country. Something is definately wrong with our system and I dont give it very long if it continues at this rate.

[RobsanX]

That Craig T. Nelson quote basically summarizes the problem with conservatives today. After they got their helping hand, they don't want anyone else to get one. I don't know how you break into a mindset like that.

[sgreger1]

The problem in the I.O.U.S.A. is that we need radical change (and quick), but any quick/radical change will be interpreted as the government over-extending it's power. Nazi nametags will be thrown around etc. Americans aren't really all that good at changing quickly, and any big changes meet HUGE opposition from a large number of americans. We fear the rise of a dictator even over little things.

Because of this, I don't think we will be able to adapt quick enough to stave off a second depression/recession. What is required right now is quick action, but that seems more impossible than ever with both sides bickering to the death in the biggest show if partisanship this country has ever seen.

[texastorm]

The main flaw of any socialist government is that any social program you make, you MUST find a way to sustain it FOREVER. If you don't people as a collective will be angry that you are taking away something that is (somehow) rightfully theirs! Since there is NO WAY to insure the long term success of any social program other than mandatory tax increases, socialism by its very nature is a non sustainable form of governing.

In NYC in 1975 with the city almost bankrupt from it's expensive social programs, Ford begrudgingly stepped in and allowed NYC to borrow federal money. NYC then had to start chopping, after they cut about 1 in 10 government employees (police and firefighters included) the city was in uproar and people where demonstrating their displeasure on the streets.

So even though the city was cutting things that it could no longer afford, the people nearly demanded that they keep overspending.... They didn't, and they survived. Koch even stood up to the transportation strike and saved the city yet again. (not that Koch wasn't a crook, but he did a few great things). But the point is people on one side or the other were pissed they were not getting what they felt they had a right to.

In fact so far as I can see any known form of governing can be wonderful in theory if pure, and hopelessly pathetic when you add human nature. Human nature and the fact that everyone is different and thinks differently and has different areas of importance means simply put you will NEVER get EVERYONE to AGREE..... NEVER.

So when our republic started we had people arguing over what kind of government we should have. Some liked England's way but with minor changes and some preferred that government completely bug off. The solution was to have a government that could adapt to those changes. Much as it is today. Some of you want lots of social backups even knowing that they will cost you personal freedom, while others here want personal freedom at any price. While it may not be visible today, I believe that history has shown our way of government to be very adaptable... as long as it doesn't go to far to one side or the other. As the conservatives lose ground and get pushed consistently to the left, liberals on the left continue to make new more invasive social programs. To the point where now the government can tell you to buy a particular product.

The reason the left is winning? Easy... no one is willing to give up any program we have. No one wants to really change them in a way that lessens them. So we will push on into socialism. The trouble with the right is it was overtaken by religious zealots and moral kooks who want to take away your rights based on morality. Besides with all the talk about reversing (IMO illegal) Obamacare, we all know that it will NEVER happen.

But we all know that at some point our spending to create some bullshit Utopia will eventually come to an end, and it will be a major failure. I am 42 and I sure hope I am long gone before this transition is complete, but I think I will live into it and we will sit in the rest home shitting our pants and talking about the good ol days when you could shit your pants without the government watching.

[justintempler]

Socialist States of Amerika on the Road to Serfdom

[snusjus]

I can't wait to study abroad overseas. If I like Scandinavia enough, I'll move over there permanently.