Rand Paul supporters take down protester, stomp her head...

[truthwolf1]

Ironic, isn't it?

Ken

When I saw "Hannity" at one of those rallies on Tv, I realized it was completely over.

Sarah Palin was actually a "supporter not a contributer" in the early days but once she pushed to became the face of the movement it was even more then over.

Even if it is not what once was, I still admire the fact that people are becoming angry and not complacent.

Not condoning beating up feminists, but just a lively political show these days against either of the "ONE PARTY SYSTEM" is better then nothing.

[devilock76]

When I saw "Hannity" at one of those rallies on Tv, I realized it was completely over.

Sarah Palin was actually a "supporter not a contributer" in the early days but once she pushed to became the face of the movement it was even more then over.

Even if it is not what once was, I still admire the fact that people are becoming angry and not complacent.

Not condoning beating up feminists, but just a lively political show these days against either of the "ONE PARTY SYSTEM" is better then nothing.

It would be nice if it can maintain its libertarian roots and use these establishment supporters instead of being hijacked by them. However like I said you can't have a revolution in an election.

Ken

[devilock76]

Joe, hate to say it but your leftist weather underground girls are no match for right wing militias. It's easy to try and make a pipe bomb but people like the Michigan militia are ready to fend off china, let alone a bunch of tree sitting hippies.


I welcome all of this. I think if the economy recovers too quickly, people will quickly forget any lessons learned here and we can get back to building the next bubble only for it to happen all over again. I think we need to see some real change, some revolution in the way people think. So if the two sides want to go t it than they can have a blast. Burn the whole thing down.


@ Robansx: everyone wants a good paying job, don't think that the half of america that considers themselves to the right of center don't want to have jobs, that's just silly. One side just believes that helping business is what will bring good jobs, and one side believes that having government force business to give out jobs is what will bring jobs.

The answer is they are both wrong. Lean to far to the right and all the corporations will outsource everything, but lean too far to the left and they will be too burdened by regulation to grow. Both extremes lead to lack of jobs, which is why Obama nor Palin are going to bring us any jobs. As always it will be hard working americans, small business, and the few corporations out there who care about employees who will bring us out of this.

I think the problem with part of this is the economy, to the average American and in practice, has become more abstract in the nature of money and currency to the point of there is a huge divide from the average worker to the currency brokers. It is no longer simply a matter of goods and tender. Maybe it should be. When it gets to the point of sweeping financial movements can be nothing more than unaccountable value on a piece of paper we end up having a reality divide on the true worth of things.

Ken

[sgreger1]

I think the problem with part of this is the economy, to the average American and in practice, has become more abstract in the nature of money and currency to the point of there is a huge divide from the average worker to the currency brokers. It is no longer simply a matter of goods and tender. Maybe it should be. When it gets to the point of sweeping financial movements can be nothing more than unaccountable value on a piece of paper we end up having a reality divide on the true worth of things.

Ken

That's why I say let it all collapse, let the market correct itself in a major way. For example I was looking at buying a house the other day here in the Bay Area, and there are about 15 houses around me that used to be worth 500,000 in 2005 that I can now mortgage, for $10,000 down, for 600$ a month ($100,000 mortgage). Great deal

[sgreger1]

When I saw "Hannity" at one of those rallies on Tv, I realized it was completely over.

Sarah Palin was actually a "supporter not a contributer" in the early days but once she pushed to became the face of the movement it was even more then over.

Even if it is not what once was, I still admire the fact that people are becoming angry and not complacent.

Not condoning beating up feminists, but just a lively political show these days against either of the "ONE PARTY SYSTEM" is better then nothing.

I orriginaly was a tea partyer too but as soon as Palin became the defacto "spokesperson" for the movement I know it was over. I am amazed it has actually GAINED steam since then. Apparently the group of people I thought were finally ready to stand up to the establishment parties are really just lackeys for the same old groups. Very dissapointing.

[devilock76]

That's why I say let it all collapse, let the market correct itself in a major way. For example I was looking at buying a house the other day here in the Bay Area, and there are about 15 houses around me that used to be worth 500,000 in 2005 that I can now mortgage, for $10,000 down, for 600$ a month ($100,000 mortgage). Great deal

You know anyone who survived the great depression or other such terrible events? Just saying that might give you perspective on the scope of such drastic shifts before you wish for them. But don't worry, unless something changes something like that or worse may happen anyway.

Ken

[sgreger1]

You know anyone who survived the great depression or other such terrible events? Just saying that might give you perspective on the scope of such drastic shifts before you wish for them. But don't worry, unless something changes something like that or worse may happen anyway.

Ken

Yes, my great grandfather who I s/w recently was alive during the great depression. It sucks but all this cheap credit has ultra-inflated the prices of everything. Houses that cost more than you'll make in a lifetime, cars that take you 6 years to pay off and then aren't worth anything, etc etc.

Like a drug addict, people have to hit rock bottom before they will begin to make meaningfull changes to the way they act and think in their day to day lives. So let's take this country to rehab and get it all out of the way before my daughter grows up.

[timholian]

Like a drug addict, people have to hit rock bottom before they will begin to make meaningfull changes to the way they act and think in their day to day lives. So let's take this country to rehab and get it all out of the way before my daughter grows up.

Truer words have never been spoken. "The hand you hold is the hand that holds you down." I was against bail outs for any industry because I saw as a time to sift the wheat from the chaff.

EDIT: In regards to the OP..... We all know it was bullshit to stomp anyone's head in a civil society... but she also hold some of the responsibility, what did she think was going to happen? Hugs and kisses?

[truthwolf1]

Yes, my great grandfather who I s/w recently was alive during the great depression. It sucks but all this cheap credit has ultra-inflated the prices of everything. Houses that cost more than you'll make in a lifetime, cars that take you 6 years to pay off and then aren't worth anything, etc etc.

Like a drug addict, people have to hit rock bottom before they will begin to make meaningfull changes to the way they act and think in their day to day lives. So let's take this country to rehab and get it all out of the way before my daughter grows up.

They even talked about this in the new Wall Street 2 movie about when the big bubble hits! lol
Most of the economic predictions are that it is going to come one way or another, so my thoughts are also better sooner then later.

[devilock76]

Yes, my great grandfather who I s/w recently was alive during the great depression. It sucks but all this cheap credit has ultra-inflated the prices of everything. Houses that cost more than you'll make in a lifetime, cars that take you 6 years to pay off and then aren't worth anything, etc etc.

Like a drug addict, people have to hit rock bottom before they will begin to make meaningfull changes to the way they act and think in their day to day lives. So let's take this country to rehab and get it all out of the way before my daughter grows up.

Median income in the US, I am going to conservatively call it $40,000. Figure the average person works 30 years in their lifetime, minimum, at such a salary, and in a "lifetime" the person made $1.2 million gross, minimum in their lifetime. Median house price for 2009 is about $216.000. basically less than 1/5 of a minimum median salary lifetime earnings.

I also doubt a one income family with that one income being the median salary is looking at houses at even half that median.

Sorry it is not that I in essence disagree with you but that math/accountant/programmer side of me started getting irked at the numbers spinning in my head as a response to your statement. Please don't take it personally. I get nit picky like that.

Ken

[devilock76]

They even talked about this in the new Wall Street 2 movie about when the big bubble hits! lol
Most of the economic predictions are that it is going to come one way or another, so my thoughts are also better sooner then later.

Are you referencing a work of fiction as an economic forecast? Gosh that makes me feel pretty stupid giving this big biker guy directions to John Conner's house the other night. Oh well!

Ken

[truthwolf1]

Are you referencing a work of fiction as an economic forecast? Gosh that makes me feel pretty stupid giving this big biker guy directions to John Conner's house the other night. Oh well!

Ken

YES I AM!
and it was pretty cool to see that the new movie plots are now sponging ideas off of the kooks.

[Roo]

@devilock76 I believe sgreger was referring to his local housing market with that ballpark statement. Like SFO, here in the immediate Seattle area if you want a freestanding house with a bit of yard to call your own, $216,000 will get you a run-down shithole in a very undesirable part of town. Decent homes are in the $750,000 range. If you work/play anywhere near downtown and you don't mind commuting for 40 minutes through traffic twice a day, then yeah you can find a good place for $250,000.

[sgreger1]

Median income in the US, I am going to conservatively call it $40,000. Figure the average person works 30 years in their lifetime, minimum, at such a salary, and in a "lifetime" the person made $1.2 million gross, minimum in their lifetime. Median house price for 2009 is about $216.000. basically less than 1/5 of a minimum median salary lifetime earnings.

I also doubt a one income family with that one income being the median salary is looking at houses at even half that median.

Sorry it is not that I in essence disagree with you but that math/accountant/programmer side of me started getting irked at the numbers spinning in my head as a response to your statement. Please don't take it personally. I get nit picky like that.

Ken

Most mortages are at least 20-30 years, so it takes most of your adult lifetime to pay them off. And that depends on where you live. For 4 bedroom houses in the sunset district in San Francisco it costs 14 million, in arkansas it is probably 100,000.

My point is that cheap easy credit has created an environemnt where someone would actually pay 30,000 for a Saturn or GM car that is only going to last for about as long as the term of the loan. Things wouldn't be so expensive if they weren't artificially inflated by the over availability of cheap credit.


For those of you who think we should just continue on doing the same and bandaging it up every now and again, I blame that thinking for the mess we are in today. If this had been actively campaigned against in my forefathers day than we wouldn't be dealing with it now.

[devilock76]

Most mortages are at least 20-30 years, so it takes most of your adult lifetime to pay them off. And that depends on where you live. For 4 bedroom houses in the sunset district in San Francisco it costs 14 million, in arkansas it is probably 100,000.

My point is that cheap easy credit has created an environemnt where someone would actually pay 30,000 for a Saturn or GM car that is only going to last for about as long as the term of the loan. Things wouldn't be so expensive if they weren't artificially inflated by the over availability of cheap credit.


For those of you who think we should just continue on doing the same and bandaging it up every now and again, I blame that thinking for the mess we are in today. If this had been actively campaigned against in my forefathers day than we wouldn't be dealing with it now.

OK I think I see better where you are coming from.

Personally I think we should be rewarded for savings and punished for consumption. Well not persay punished but taxed for consumption. In short a consumption based tax system like fair tax or similar.

Ken