Having a go at growing in the UK

[squeezyjohn]

Just to update on the recipe I gave earlier in this thread. The ginger/cinnamon snus has totally settled down in to a great semi-stark lös that I'm using more and more. The ageing after cooking is certainly an important part of the process.

What I will say is that I think the quick cook was not entirely detrimental to the snus. I get the feeling that a richer flavour could be got from cooking it longer, but I think the quality of tobacco also makes a big difference to the richness of basic flavour.

Cheers

Squeezy

[Ansel]

Sounds really good Squeezy. I'd like to try some of it! Would be tough for me to go solely over to los though :-s

[jet80]

need to try this one out

[squeezyjohn]

I've just put on cook #2. I've changed the basic recipe so that I'm using pure sea salt, and slightly less of it. My new acquisition - a Weck boiler is very easy to set the temperature and keep it there for a long time (it will also come in handy for sterilising my home-pressed apple juice and pickles)

The recipe this time is:
100g tobacco flour (virginia from snus2.se)
160ml water
5g maldon sea salt
a dash of Propylene glycol

I'm not sure the Propylene Glycol was necessary as the last batch stayed moist and held together well for ages - it's more an experiment to see if it changes the flavour at all.

I will be attempting to keep it at 199 degrees Farenheit (92 degrees C) for 48 hours for a better cooking process this time. I'm also planning on using a little of the Coobra smoke flavouring (rokarom) along with salmiak and ginger (and maybe some liquorice if I can get hold of some).

Note added: it seems to be holding at a good solid 192 degrees F in the Weck boiler which is great.

[Ansel]

That boiler looks cool. Let us know how you find it.

[Ansel]

Note added: it seems to be holding at a good solid 192 degrees F in the Weck boiler which is great.

Will you recalculate your oven time now for the -7 F difference?

[Fazer]

That boiler looks cool. Let us know how you find it.

Indeed it does, i've got some rustica seeds, but i think i'd go with the raw tobacco virginia box from snus2 at first. No place to grow at the moment. If i had the cash i'd buy a shed load of boxes and store them

[Ansel]

Not sure what this place is like for buying tobacco leaf:

http://www.leafonly.com/index.php

[squeezyjohn]

I think I'll just play it by ear and give it the 2 days this time! Last time it was about 4 hours so if there's an improvement with the proper amount of cooking time I'll see it. I'm not sure it can be an exact science with the equipment I'm using and the quantities anyway.

I think I wouldn't use such a light tobacco next time. The recipes often call for Burley tobacco and I'd go for that or a blend with virginia next time as I think a darker tobacco might make for a richer tasting snus.

The boiler is great - the cook's been on for about 8 hours now and it doesn't seem to be losing too much water through evaporation. I've also checked the electricity meter and it doesn't seem to be appreciably using an unreasonable amount of electricity. The sealed plastic lock'n'lock tub just floats in the middle of the water - I tested the temperature of the snus itself just now and it was now at 195 Farenheit so it does move around a bit, but not so much that I'd worry. The only thing is that it's absolutely massive! I could easily scale the recipe up to 2kg of tobacco flour with this equipment but I somehow doubt I could store 5kg of lös in my freezer!

[Ansel]

Blimey cool, i hope it comes out well.

[squeezyjohn]

But some Burleys can be as light as a virginia tobacco actually come to think of it so forget that bit!

[squeezyjohn]

I didn't know that place existed - interesting! However - it's never plain sailing ordering from the USA, is it

Not sure what this place is like for buying tobacco leaf:

http://www.leafonly.com/index.php

[justintempler]

congrats sqeezyjohn,

It's nice to see someone else experimenting.

The temperature isn't that critical where you have to keep it that exact. More heat just means it "cooks" faster but if you go too "hot" your tobacco will develop a burnt taste. Also by varying the tobacco you use and shortening or lengthening your cook times you will create different flavor profiles. . The snus companies vary the cooking time for different tobacco blends for their different snus brands. There is no "correct" amount of time for cooking snus. It comes down to learning what works best for the tobacco you are working with in your recipe, versus some standard set time according to some internet recipe

The basic theory behind the forced aged cooking method is expalined in a RJ Reynolds US Patent Number: 4,528,993

Forced aging simulates the result of traditional fermentation by inducing chemical reactions in the tobacco mixture. Some of these reactions, known as Maillard reactions, produce browning reactions in both the natural tobacco sugars and the sugars present in the casing material. These reactions result in darkening tobacco and producing snuff flavor precursors. Other chemical reactions, of unknown types, are also occurring. It has been found that inducing such reactions in uncased tobacco fails to produce the desired taste characteristics.


Forced aging is induced by placing the tobacco mixture (which emerges from the previous casing step* at a temperature between about 160° and 200° F. (71°-93° C.), preferably 190° F. (88° C.)) into containers, where it remains between about 24 and 48 hours. The Maillard and other reactions are induced by maintaining the tobacco at this elevated temperature during the holding period. Temperature can be maintained by initially applying external heat to the container holding area, as with steam, or simply by maintaining the containers within an insulated area. These reactions are exothermic, and the liberated heat assists in maintaining the proper temperature. With either method, the tobacco temperature rises to about 200° F. (93° C.). The product that emerges from the 24-48 hour process closely simulates that produced through traditional fermentation, but it does so in one to two days rather than two to three months. At this stage, the product has a moisture content between 25 and 45%

I have a sneaking suspicion that the more unfermented your tobacco is, the more salt you should use. Where I ran into problems in the past was using a lot of salt and then using sodium carbonate to raise the pH. Sodium carbonate is a salt too (as is salmiak (ammonium chloride)) and because I wanted to "spike" my snus to raise the pH. The combination of salt + sodium carbonate was too much. The solution is to use potassium carbonate to raise pH which gives you the freedom to play with the ammount of salt in your recipe.

Also be aware that Virginia tobacco in the snus world has a different meaning than what is normally thought of when cigarette and pipe smokers think of when they use that term. Back when Virginia tobacco became popular for snus making I "think" it was a way to differentiate dark Virginia tobaccos from those of Europe, Cuba and South America. Nowadays it would be better to think in terms of the dark tobaccos of Kentucky and Tennessee with maybe some Burley thrown in as your basic snus tobacco. Those tobaccos have a fatter leaf which means they absorb flavors more readily and they also have a higher nicotine content.

I've found myself resisting making any big batches of snus. It is all too easy to make a big batch of snus that you don't like and then you end up throwing out tobacco you aren't happy with. I suggest you wait till you find a recipe you are trully happy with before cooking up big batches. I still haven't found one yet, although I have reached the point where my plain snus is usable by itself without blending with commercial snus. My next step is to learn to flavor my base tobacco to something I actually consider good.

* the salt water used in our recipes is a casing solution.

[squeezyjohn]

Hi Justin,

Thanks for that wealth of genuinely useful information! The cook is still going strong and the snus is browning nicely. I think I may buy some more seeds of a darker variety of tobacco for my own growing experience. I just think the DelGold will end up similar to this virginia I've bought if it's successfully grown and cured. I'd like to aim to start with a darker variety like Black Stalk Mammoth so I think I'll buy some of that and grow it along with the other two.

I think one thing to bear in mind is that the longer cooking time seems to make the snus more moist as it breaks down in the process - I could certainly have done with a little less of the saltwater casing this time. Adjusting maybe to only 150ml of water for the initial cook.

I too had considered the "saltiness" of salmiak and sodium carbonate. I think that changing to a potassium salt would not change the salty nature of the chemicals involved (and potash is much harder to come by as a food-grade item over here). I know, for example that the lo-salt they sell over here is potassium chloride mixed with sodium chloride and it is no less salty than pure salt, but has a bitter aftertaste that I'd like to avoid in my snus!

Anyway - thanks again for information that, let's face it, is absolutely impossible to find even on the "all-knowing" internet. That's what makes this place a fantastic resource to use!

Cheers

Squeezy

[squeezyjohn]

Pardon me if I ask another question for those like Justin who have had more experience of this:

Is it necessary to cook the tobacco + salt + water and then add the sodium/potassium carbonate after that process. Is there any good reason why I shouldn't add all the chemicals and water, and then cook the snus?

Cheers

Squeezy