Having a go at growing in the UK

[whalen]

Squeezyjohn - As far as the the other site, they are not that well equipped to deal with "technical" issues! Be persistent, they would not ban anybody, they just set the filters weird.

Smoking Rustica is a no go, but for blending for snuff and snus it is a great choice. Yes the nicotine is 8X higher, but the rich flavor is probably not going to be there without a great grow and a great cure. The cure is the key!

I would keep topping all but one, unless they just get overwhelmed with flowers. I would suggest just keep playing with your grow crop, and try to get some rich tobacco to process separately. I wish I could help there, I am not sure what restrictions or taxes you face. I, thank god, can send a paypal and get a giant box of tobacco in a matter of days here. Cheap, no tax, and these guys I get it from are damn good at what they do! Three year old barn cured red tipped burly will curl your socks. The Virginia Bright leaf smells just like butterscotch. The dark air cured is where it gets real serious, second and third primings of tobacco perfect for you or me. Now you have begun the phase i will go to next, making snus. I already have made all the snuff I can handle, and I bought south American Mapacho rustica to make my snuff.

The whole idea is to get that beautiful tobacco from the heart of a bale, that is what we need! They have closed all of the Tobacco auctions that were traditionally held here, but I was able to get to see some, and I still remember what the center of a 800 pound bale looks like! The owner of the tobacco site deals in giant slugs of tobacco, that is what he buys to get what he does not grow. Give some thought to whether a pound of powdered tobacco can make it to you, I would be happy to select and pulverize some for you.

[whalen]

I sent another message about your IP problems to the admin.

[squeezyjohn]

Thanks Whalen. I've also sent them another message.

So what happens in the middle of a bale that is so good? Some kind of alchemy? Or is it a known process?

I've just checked the details on HMRC (our version of IRC) and they say this:

2.1 What goods bear tobacco products duty?The following goods are all liable to tobacco products duty if they are made wholly or partly from tobacco or from any substance used as a substitute for tobacco:

• cigarettes
• cigars
• hand-rolling tobacco
• other smoking tobacco (which includes pipe tobacco), and
• chewing tobacco.

Duty is not charged on snuff and herbal smoking products. Oral snuff is not liable to tobacco products duty but its sale in the UK is prohibited under the Tobacco for Oral Use (Safety) Regulations 1992.
Cigarette rag and expanded tobacco which can be smoked without further processing are also liable to duty if they pass a duty point (see paragraph 2.17).
You can find detailed descriptions of all of these products in the glossary.

From this I deduce that powdered dry tobacco can reasonably be assumed as nasal snuff and that tobacco duty would not be due on it on importing from the USA ... however, VAT/import duty would be due on any import of raw tobacco from outside the EU at 20% of the sale price which would have to be declared on a form/sticker to be filled in by the sender. There will also be an "administrative charge" for the handling by the HMRC ... I've been subjected from that by various purchases I've had to make for my job and it's annoying but not insurmountable!! As far as I can tell - the same lack of tobacco duty should be the case for raw unprocessed tobacco, but I can't see any reference to it on their website and would have to ring them up and ask directly I suppose.

If you are offering me a chance to use you as a go-between I would be very interested, and thank you very much for the offer. But I would also probably like the chance to buy the leaves whole if I can get it sorted on fairtradetobacco.com because that would let me see the product I am trying to produce here and I would probably learn more about the tobacco in general that way.

Regarding the snus-making ... I have made a couple of pretty successful small batches of loose with the pretty substandard virginia scraps that Snus2.se sell ... I'm pretty confident that I have the beginnings of a method that can make me a good loose snus in the end. Because of the difficulty in making portions - I'm really up for having an experiment with creating a twist chew with a snus flavour profile that's cured in the same way that can be cut up in to small bites to be used like big oliver twists in place of portions - another reason to have whole leaf I suppose.

Long post ... lots to think about ... thanks again for your interest in my ridiculous tasks on this small island.

Squeezy

[whalen]

Squeezyjohn, I have agree that getting to enjoy the whole leaf goodness is part of the thrill of the tobacco experience. I thought that a pound of polarized dark air cured would be easy to ship and play with. But a pound of whole leaf would be nice to have, and just so pretty to look at. I really enjoy all having so many types of whole leaf to play with.

The center of a bale undergoes a natural composting, natural kilning so to say, imparts a deep color and taste. Select tobacco.

I would think that pulverized tobacco would meet all of the requirements of a nasal snuff, for customs.

[squeezyjohn]

Well - I'm back in on the other site ... thanks for the help.

And the more advanced rustica plants have been duly topped at 3ft (it's as if you're doing it by remote control Whalen!) - some more are a bit behind and need a week or two, but those are bigger in every way and I think I'll choose to take seed from the biggest just in case it is genetic!

Cheers

Squeezy

[whalen]

Nice to hear they are getting bigger, my plants are getting huge also. I got this reply from the other site..........

The only way I can help him get on the site is to know his IP address. Once I know which block he is in, I can allow that block. The only way his IP is blocked is due to illegal activity somewhere within his block of IP's. This is typical for entire countries like Romania, and just about every other former Soviet block country.

If he can't figure out his IP, have him send me an email saying "Hello" in the subject box and "test" in the message field.

[squeezyjohn]

Ho Ho Ho!

Nice to see the UK being lumped in with the Eastern Block! We're all just the same as each other over here in YURP

My service provider here is the largest one in the UK - the former national telephone company BT and they do use dynamic IP addresses so it does change, but I've sent the site admin my IP address every time I've had a problem through the email function at the bottom of the site.

Maybe they've rumbled me for all those guns I'm smuggling in to the UK

[whalen]

Maybe! I think it is probably all the excitement and jealousy over the Spice girl reunion at the closing ceremonies!

More likely your being victimized by some hick at a hosting company who does not even know there is anyone across the pond other than Nigerians or Gypsies!

[squeezyjohn]

Just to keep anyone who's interested updated, here's where I'm up to.

It looks like the rustica is a definite success - I've harvested the earliest plants that went out in the open soil as the leaves were beginning to droop and die off at the bottom.

Of the 3 places I have to air cure the leaves, it seems as if the greenhouse is the right one. The drafts in the shed make them go crispy and green as does the dry air of the indoors. In the greenhouse they stay nicely "in case" (that means damp and not dry) until they turn a lighting brown colour. Nothing is going mouldy yet.

The black stalk mammoth plants are continuing to get bigger leaves, but refusing to grow upwards. I reckon I've got another month to see I they'll do anything decent.

Cheers

Squeezy

[whalen]

Keep at it, glad you found a good slow cure spot, most important part.

[squeezyjohn]

I'm trying to get hold of some of the Alida tobacco seeds for next year ... the type that Gotlandssnus use for the Jakobsson's line - it's a type of Virginia that's specially selected for the Swedish climate - which I reckon should be similar to the UK.

Does anyone know of any source anywhere for these?

I have PMed Jimmy - but given my policy of "calling a spade a spade" in the recent thread about Gotlands effectively stopping making Gotlandssnus - I'm wouldn't be surprised if I get no answer

Cheers

Squeezy

[squeezyjohn]

Ah - I spoke too soon. The weather has turned cool and wet here again and checking the rustica curing in the greenhouse, the couple of whole plants curing (for comparison with individual leaves) have tiny spots of white mold on them.

I rubbed these down and sprayed them with a sodium carbonate solution which has anti-fungal properties (and given I will be making snus or chewing tobacco designed to taste like snus then the leaf is only getting an ingredient it would already be getting later on). I've also taken the leaves off the stalks now and strung them up with the rest - stalk curing is slower than whole-leaf curing because the plant is dying slowly and continues to feed the leaves at a slow rate while hung up.

Hopefully that will stop the rot.

Cheers

Squeezy

[squeezyjohn]

Regarding the Alida tobacco - Jimmy did reply although it looks like the local tobacco is no longer used in Jakobssons.

Another line of enquiry has come up trumps though. The tobacco & match museum in Stockholm are going to send me some!

[squeezyjohn]

UK tobacco patch update - Beginning of September.

The plants are doing OK - the rustica variety have some seriously big leaves and have reached as tall as they're going to but are continuing to mature. All the leaves (apart from ones snapped off in the wind) are green. The Black Stalk Mammoth are beginning to get taller now and the biggest leaves are about a foot and a half long - but I suspect they have a good lot more growing to do in September!

The curing experiments are also yielding results. I'm having a few chews on the trial leaves as they cure (ones that have fallen off or plants that were growing sideways because of the wind). The rustica leaves in the greenhouse are slowly curing nicely to brown but I'm pretty sure the leaves were immature when they came off. They have low nicotine levels despite being rustica and absolutely no sweetness to them naturally. The one bigger, more mature leaf that snapped off has also been cured and I've just tested that one for taste and actually it has an amazing natural sweetness developing and is definitely quite pokey in the nicotine department too.

I think for the Rustica I will settle on priming the leaves as late as I can possibly get away with and colour curing them in the greenhouse (hopefully this will still work in the colder months ahead with the aid of a paraffin heater!) Then they will be transferred to hanging the shed which is a drier environment to finish the air-curing process over a longer period of time.

This single more mature leaf that has begun to cure with more nicotine, flavour and sweetness has given me a lot to be optimistic about. It tastes really nice despite still being a tiny bit green in the middle - and I'm surprised that Rustica can have this kind of depth of flavour . Like Ansel was talking about - this rustica will be able to make very small pieces of chew the size of a piccanell that have the punch of an something like Skruf Xtra Stark or Odens Extreme. In fact I'm going to have to take the test leaf out now as it's making me a bit dizzy.

Cheers

Squeezy

[squeezyjohn]

Some photos of the whole rustica plants I cut down as the leaves were all looking mature and I want them to cure as nicely as possible by air curing in some sunny weather predicted for the next week or so.


These plants are about 3 foot high and the largest leaves are about a foot square.

Meanwhile back in the ground: the leaves on the largest Black Stalk Mammoth plant are growing larger by the day - about 2ft long at the moment for the largest ones - but the plant is still only about a foot high!

It looks healthy enough!

Cheers

Squeezy