Tobacco, taxes, ideas.........

[Yamaha760]

The taxes on tobacco in general have made several people either switch to snus or quit all together. Looking at all the snus brands I noticed the tobacco free types. Why couldn't they artificially add nicotine to these types to avoid the tax. I can see the waters getting muddy there. Would they then have to tax nicotine in general?

[lxskllr]

If they did that, they'd then be making a pharmaceutical nicotine product, and would come under the control of the FDA. The cost of development would be too high, and the acceptance too low(I wouldn't use it), to be worth it.

[Yamaha760]

I have wondered if they haven't already been messing with the nicotine levels. How can one portion contain 17mg while another portion the same size have 6-8mg. If it all were processed the same way, (I know they are not), I wonder what the maximum nicotine content of 1 gram of tobacco would be? So they can take away but not add? If there was a product that performed equally to any form of smokeless tobacco that did not contain tobacco but did contain nicotine....I would go for it.

[Maxpower05080]

The e-cigarettes are just that. They are expensive to buy, but the cartridges are pretty cheap once you invest in the e cig. Easy on the lungs too! I don't know though, I really enjoy tobacco and I'm not that big on the idea of an e-cig. I will defiantly get one someday to try out. Besides that, a great way to beat the taxes is to roll your own, if not using snus. Drum is a great rolling tobacco that is cheap even here in NY. I would continue to use it, but my lungs are starting to feel like crap and I'm 21. One thing I don't understand, relating back to your nicotine question, is why is nicotine gum so expensive? Doesn't make sense.....maybe nicotine is expensive to derive or something.

[bakerbarber]

I think they attain different nicotine levels in snus by using different parts of the tobacco plant.

Leaves have more nicotine, stems have less.

I reckon the strongest snus is all leaves.

I remember reading that different species of tobacco have different levels of nicotine as well.

There is a variety grown specifically to be processed into insecticide that has so much nicotine no one would really use it.

I need chainsnusser to chime in. I'm pretty sure he was the one with the wealth of knowledge on the nicotine level subject.

I think he posted about a snuff that is so strong nicotine wise it tastes metallic.

[justintempler]

e-cigarettes will be going the way of the dodo soon.

....
Last summer a Florida company began aggressively marketing e-cigarettes — which emit a nicotine vapor with the help of a computer chip — but the U.S. Food and Drug Administration now seems poised to pull e-cigs from the market because the agency considers them "new drugs." That means they need approval from the FDA, which requires companies to back up their claims with scientific data.

"It is illegal to sell or market them, and the FDA is looking into this," said Rita Chappelle, an agency spokeswoman
.....

see the full article here:
http://www.mercurynews.com/topstorie...nclick_check=1

[Yamaha760]

My idea here was a cheap alternative to smokeless tobacco. Something that would gave the same "experience". (Taste, feel, and so on) They have done quite a bit for the smoking population. Nicotine inhalers and e-cigarettes. They have the same goal....provide the same "experience". As far as the FDA getting involved.....that sounds great to me. But given the addictive nature of nicotine....if something like this were produced....I am sure it wouldn't be cheap.

[bakerbarber]

The e-cigarettes are just that. They are expensive to buy, but the cartridges are pretty cheap once you invest in the e cig. Easy on the lungs too! I don't know though, I really enjoy tobacco and I'm not that big on the idea of an e-cig. I will defiantly get one someday to try out. Besides that, a great way to beat the taxes is to roll your own, if not using snus. Drum is a great rolling tobacco that is cheap even here in NY. I would continue to use it, but my lungs are starting to feel like crap and I'm 21. One thing I don't understand, relating back to your nicotine question, is why is nicotine gum so expensive? Doesn't make sense.....maybe nicotine is expensive to derive or something.

There was an article in the business section of Sunday's paper about e-cigs. Very interesting. Apparently they are being sold in kiosks in malls. Also Jose Conseco and Danny Bonaduce are their American spokesmen.

Sad thing is since the e-cigs are tobacco free nicotine delivery systems the FDA is moving to ban them. They fall under the "new drug" category. An agency spokesperson, Rita Chappelle, said, "it is illegal to sell or market them."

justintemplar already posted a link I see.

Regarding how expensive nicotine gum is, I feel it is similar to other drugs. Being in business for profit. Big pharma is out to make money not improve people's health, or cure them of nicotine addiction. They want to keep you addicted, so you will buy more gum, so you will stay addicted, so you will buy more gum...........

[Mohave]

Besides that, a great way to beat the taxes is to roll your own, if not using snus.

Not any more, if you are in the US. Effective April 1st the federal tax on bulk rolling tobacco increases 2,400% as part of the "Children's Health" legislation passed and signed into law a few months ago. Expect most vendors of roll your own supplies to go out of business. My bulk tobacco which used to cost about $16-$18 will now cost about $45-$50. If you didn't already stockpile a large supply, you are screwed.

[Maxpower05080]

Besides that, a great way to beat the taxes is to roll your own, if not using snus.

Not any more, if you are in the US. Effective April 1st the federal tax on bulk rolling tobacco increases 2,400% as part of the "Children's Health" legislation passed and signed into law a few months ago. Expect most vendors of roll your own supplies to go out of business. My bulk tobacco which used to cost about $16-$18 will now cost about $45-$50. If you didn't already stockpile a large supply, you are screwed.

Really? I never heard this! So how much would a pouch of $4 drum be after april 1st?

[Yamaha760]

After I started this thread I did some research. Looking for a loop hole in taxes generated by tobacco ultimately would end easy access to nicotine. I think I'll be happy with what we have now....and have to quit if it gets out of hand. They are working on creating nicotine free tobacco...genetically. It will be nicotine that disappears. That is probably a good thing. I hadn't planned on quitting smoking. The new tax laws would have driven me to quit. Finding snus has been a great alternative. Both to my health and my wallet.

[Mohave]

Besides that, a great way to beat the taxes is to roll your own, if not using snus.

Not any more, if you are in the US. Effective April 1st the federal tax on bulk rolling tobacco increases 2,400% as part of the "Children's Health" legislation passed and signed into law a few months ago. Expect most vendors of roll your own supplies to go out of business. My bulk tobacco which used to cost about $16-$18 will now cost about $45-$50. If you didn't already stockpile a large supply, you are screwed.

Really? I never heard this! So how much would a pouch of $4 drum be after april 1st?

Multiply $24.78 per pound times the quantity of the pouch of RYO you are buying, and that will give you the amount of the increased tax. Don't count on a whole lot of manufacturers and distributors continuing to supply the US RYO market, since these prices wipe out the major reason for rolling our own.

Here is one summary, from the newsletter of the National Association of Tobacco Outlets, which provides a table of the new tax rates: http://www.smokeshopmag.com/NATO.pdf

[Maxpower05080]

wow thats ridiculous! Thanks for the article, very interesting. These taxes are just getting out of hand. If these prices do go up as much as the article states by the end of the week, I will most likely stick with the snus. :lol:

[jhf429]

Will this effect American distributors of snus such as getsnus? Also do you think customs will be more active and thorough in their tracking of imported snus? I hope not I hate cigarettes now but couldn't live without snus.

[justintempler]

Will this effect American distributors of snus such as getsnus? Also do you think customs will be more active and thorough in their tracking of imported snus? I hope not I hate cigarettes now but couldn't live without snus.

Tax increase on snus goes from $0.585 to $1.51 per pound
$1.51-$0.585= $0.925 increase per pound
1 pound = 453.59237 grams

portion snus 24 grams per can
453.59237 / 24 = 18.899 cans in one pound

$0.925 / 18.899 = $0.0489 or about a nickel a can.

los snus is roughly twice that so ten cents a can.

So for us that actual increase in tax under SCHIP amounts to next to nothing.