MORE ABOUT The Differences Between Snus and American Smokeless

[mattzq8sonoma]

I wouldn't do any of those things. I actually prefer portions not to be too fresh. I was actually just expecting an answer like mist it with distilled water and let it sit for a day, but you never know until you ask. I was interested to see your comments about the "best before" date and that TSNA levels don't increase. I try to use common sense and otherwise never even look at the date.

I just took inventory of my freezer. I have 150+ cans and pouches (mostly cans) of snus that I now don't have to throw out, thanks to Matt. And so far it all tastes pretty good--even better now that I don't have that "uhh, I'm not so sure about this" feeling lurking in my brain

Seems like most people are basically just worried about the snus going bad and being hazardous to your health if it is stored for an extended period of time, because of TSNA's or other harmful constituents rising. I say at or below -11*C, or 12*F, because that's what our laboratory certified reference products are stored at. The newest batch of these, which are from 2009 and include snus, moist snuff, dry nasal snuff, and loose leaf are all stable in all the analytes of interest, including harmful constituents like TSNA's, volatile nitrosamines, aldehydes, PAH's, mycotoxins, etc, that are tested for in laboratory collaborative studies (labs all over the world testing the same products at the same time). The list is quite long for what we test for, and the results are very consistent over the past 5 years of testing these. So I can say without a doubt, that the products are stable for a very long time in the freezer.

[whalen]

That is very good to know. You have done us all a service! These facts are important and have been speculated over for many years. I have always bought into sales....and consume older vacuum packed and frozen snus daily. It is nice to know that I still using a far less hazardous product.
As I stated, you have provided us with helpfull information that is of use to us all....Kudos my friend!

[mattzq8sonoma]

As I stated, you have provided us with helpfull information that is of use to us all....Kudos my friend!

You're welcome! I love to share knowledge that I've learned over the years in the tobacco industry.

Here's one for you that I learned recently. There is EXTENSIVE research being conducted by cigarette manufacturers to make cigarettes less hazardous. The point where they are right now is with these crazy new-age filters. Cellulose acetate, w/ tons of carbon built-in. A metalized insert that works kinda like a catalytic converter on a car, plus side stream ventilation as well (the difference between a regular and the light or ultralight was the amount of side stream ventilation). All of this money and time and research to reduce harmful constituents in the mainstream cigarette smoke by 800% and it's not enough to make any difference in the biological effect of cigarettes. Meaning even though there are 8X less of many of the hazardous components in the smoke, it won't reduce your risk of lung cancer, or heart disease, or anything else. Put that in your pipe and smoke it...just don't inhale.

[MojoQuestor]

... All of this money and time and research to reduce harmful constituents in the mainstream cigarette smoke by 800% and it's not enough to make any difference in the biological effect of cigarettes. Meaning even though there are 8X less of many of the hazardous components in the smoke, it won't reduce your risk of lung cancer, or heart disease, or anything else. Put that in your pipe and smoke it...just don't inhale.

But I guess they can loudly market 800% reduction and lose not that it makes you any safer in the fine print.

[mattzq8sonoma]

But I guess they can loudly market 800% reduction and lose not that it makes you any safer in the fine print.

These cigarettes costs a lot more money to produce, with no added benefit, so I think they'll probably just stick with regular cigarettes. Unless they can make more profit off these by selling them for drastically more...and then you're right But the presentation I attended about this was given by a big wig from Philip Morris, and he was bummed. So I'm assuming they're not pursuing this any further.

Another thing that bugs me is "Natural" cigarettes, like American Spirits. Their market share has been increasing dramatically over the last couple years. Just because they're natural or organic or whatever doesn't mean they're safe. It's what's natural in the tobacco, when burned, that causes the majority of the problems.

[MojoQuestor]

These cigarettes costs a lot more money to produce, with no added benefit, so I think they'll probably just stick with regular cigarettes. Unless they can make more profit off these by selling them for drastically more...and then you're right But the presentation I attended about this was given by a big wig from Philip Morris, and he was bummed. So I'm assuming they're not pursuing this any further.

Oh, I gotcha. I would imagine that presentation was interesting. Makes me think of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_%28cigarette%29

Another thing that bugs me is "Natural" cigarettes, like American Spirits. Their market share has been increasing dramatically over the last couple years. Just because they're natural or organic or whatever doesn't mean they're safe. It's what's natural in the tobacco, when burned, that causes the majority of the problems.

Hmm. That's too bad. I'd always hoped that those sort of cigarettes were at least safer, but I can't say it's surprising to hear otherwise.

[mattzq8sonoma]

Oh, I gotcha. I would imagine that presentation was interesting. Makes me think of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_%28cigarette%29

I heard the other day that RJR is going to reintroduce those onto the market soon. They're a grandfathered product because they were on the market way back in 1988.

The cigarettes I was referring to aren't a "heat not burn" cigarette like the Premier's were. You light and smoke them just like a regular cigarette...it just had a very elaborate filter on it and less tobacco.

[elenamylove]

Thanks for the info Matt - I buy all the General Snus I can in my area in Florida and tell my family and friends who smoke about Snus.

But as soon as I say it goes in the upper lip they freak out and think nasty DIP!!! 90% refuse to try it. If they only knew how safe and amazing Snus works... Oh, and tasty!!!

[resnor]

Awesome stuff! Thanks for posting!

[piks101]

These cigarettes costs a lot more money to produce, with no added benefit, so I think they'll probably just stick with regular cigarettes. Unless they can make more profit off these by selling them for drastically more...and then you're right But the presentation I attended about this was given by a big wig from Philip Morris, and he was bummed. So I'm assuming they're not pursuing this any further.

Another thing that bugs me is "Natural" cigarettes, like American Spirits. Their market share has been increasing dramatically over the last couple years. Just because they're natural or organic or whatever doesn't mean they're safe. It's what's natural in the tobacco, when burned, that causes the majority of the problems.

Matt...I get your point that burning and inhaling the smoke is a health issue. Just like chewing on coca leaves and smoking crack both deliver cocaine but smoking crack is well whack, as in it will wack you out (FU-UP). Similar to snus vs smoking, you can get a nice, even stead supply of nic with snus with very little to no ill effects or get a hyper amount of nic with fleeting satiation and all the detrimental health issues that go with smoking (burning) tobacco. I personally have smoked American Spirits on the rare occasion I smoke and I will tell you that although not safe the short term after effects on my throat, sinuses and chest are significantly reduced then if I smoked a Marlboro per se. I would say the difference is that I am not inhaling the added chemicals. I think it is safe to say that smoking American Spirits or an other all natural tobacco is safer but by no means safe.

[piks101]

Thanks for the info Matt - I buy all the General Snus I can in my area in Florida and tell my family and friends who smoke about Snus.

But as soon as I say it goes in the upper lip they freak out and think nasty DIP!!! 90% refuse to try it. If they only knew how safe and amazing Snus works... Oh, and tasty!!!

Smokers that have the gross out effect from the "dip" effect should be introduced to one of Swedish Match's no drip white mini or slim pouches such as the ZYNnt or the Lab series for starters.

[elenamylove]

Good point Piks101. I'm about to order some - The Lab 12 Mint to try, just sounds amazing! I seen some of the newer no-drip stuff but I actually enjoy some drip from my Snus. White Bite is another one I would like to try with Epok Breeze its no-drip but with purified crazy strong tobacco crystals or something magical.

Would post links but can't yet

[mattzq8sonoma]

Matt...I get your point that burning and inhaling the smoke is a health issue. Just like chewing on coca leaves and smoking crack both deliver cocaine but smoking crack is well whack, as in it will wack you out (FU-UP). Similar to snus vs smoking, you can get a nice, even stead supply of nic with snus with very little to no ill effects or get a hyper amount of nic with fleeting satiation and all the detrimental health issues that go with smoking (burning) tobacco. I personally have smoked American Spirits on the rare occasion I smoke and I will tell you that although not safe the short term after effects on my throat, sinuses and chest are significantly reduced then if I smoked a Marlboro per se. I would say the difference is that I am not inhaling the added chemicals. I think it is safe to say that smoking American Spirits or an other all natural tobacco is safer but by no means safe.

Bottom line, as a chemist who tests tobacco products of all kinds, cigarettes are cigarettes, whether they have organically grown tobacco and no added chemicals or not. There are like 8000 components in a natural cigarette, about 10 are known carcinogens and 60+ are thought to be carcinogenic. The added chemicals in a regular cigarette are things like ammonia (for the pH), propylene glycol & glycerine (humectants: to stabilize moisture content), some brands spray a sugar mixture to adjust burn rates. And that's about it. When you burn propylene glycol & most mono/disaccharides (sugars) that does produce potentially carcinogenic compounds. But it's only a couple more than a regular cigarette. So, based on that, there's only 95% of the carcinogens in an American Spirit then in a regular cigarette. However, the density of the tobacco in an American Spirit is higher (no puffed tobacco like a regular cigarette), so there is actually MORE tobacco in each stick and therefore potentially MORE carcinogens per cigarette. Not to mention that American Spirits burn longer than a regular cigarette, so you'll take more puffs off of it to burn it to the filter and they have a much higher nicotine dose than regular cigarettes, so they're also going to be more addictive. They may have less noticeable short term effects for you, but they are by no means safer than a regular cigarette.

[Snusdog]

Bottom line, as a chemist who tests tobacco products of all kinds, cigarettes are cigarettes, whether they have organically grown tobacco and no added chemicals or not. There are like 8000 components in a natural cigarette, about 10 are known carcinogens and 60+ are thought to be carcinogenic. The added chemicals in a regular cigarette are things like ammonia (for the pH), propylene glycol & glycerine (humectants: to stabilize moisture content), some brands spray a sugar mixture to adjust burn rates. And that's about it. When you burn propylene glycol & most mono/disaccharides (sugars) that does produce potentially carcinogenic compounds. But it's only a couple more than a regular cigarette. So, based on that, there's only 95% of the carcinogens in an American Spirit then in a regular cigarette. However, the density of the tobacco in an American Spirit is higher (no puffed tobacco like a regular cigarette), so there is actually MORE tobacco in each stick and therefore potentially MORE carcinogens per cigarette. Not to mention that American Spirits burn longer than a regular cigarette, so you'll take more puffs off of it to burn it to the filter and they have a much higher nicotine dose than regular cigarettes, so they're also going to be more addictive. They may have less noticeable short term effects for you, but they are by no means safer than a regular cigarette.

Hummmmm...........them marketing boys sure are sneaky little devils.

[piks101]

Good point Piks101. I'm about to order some - The Lab 12 Mint to try, just sounds amazing! I seen some of the newer no-drip stuff but I actually enjoy some drip from my Snus. White Bite is another one I would like to try with Epok Breeze its no-drip but with purified crazy strong tobacco crystals or something magical.

Would post links but can't yet [ATTACH=CONFIG]2832[/ATTACH]

I did not like the white bite. The bite to release nic sounded like a decent concept but I found the pouch got slimy. My favorites of the no drips are Northerner Wintergreen and Citrus but I do like the ZYNnt and Lab series, as well. I prefer no drip as I do not not like brown tobacco juice visible to others between my teeth when I am snusing. My preference is no drip as long as the flavor is good.