Snus lies and exaggerations?

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  • ponysoprano
    Member
    • Jul 2008
    • 562

    #1

    Snus lies and exaggerations?

    Many of you may have seen this. It's not going to affect my snussage one bit. It's little more than a factless blurb, peppered with vague numbers and a graphic picture of an unknown man with an unknown mouth cancer, probably a stock photo from the archives of some anti-tobacco lobby group. Let me know what you guys think. I smell Bullsh!t.

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Swedi...fe-83907.shtml


  • Jason
    Member
    • Jan 2008
    • 1370

    #2


    The lies never end....do these people bother to do any real research at all? :roll:

    Comment

    • ponysoprano
      Member
      • Jul 2008
      • 562

      #3

      Comment

      • The Mad Celt
        New Member
        • Jul 2008
        • 10

        #4
        Snus Health

        It is healthier not to use ANY tobacco product; nonetheless, the current research shows that using snus is far safer than smoking and has much lower TSNA (cancer causing agent) levels than American chewing/dipping tobaccos. I quit smoking (two packs a day) using snus.

        Cited studies on snus and health can be found at the following sites:

        *European Smokeless Tobacco Council (ESTOC)
        (http://estoc.org/estoc.asp)

        *HighBeam Research
        (http://www.highbeam.com/search.aspx?...f_id=ency_MALT)

        *ESTOC (PDF Document) (http://estoc.org/Archive/PDF/Fact%20...ets6-15-07.pdf)

        SnusOn!

        Comment

        • KarlvB
          Member
          • Feb 2008
          • 681

          #5
          Hyperbole = yes

          We do have to admit though that snus, despite being much safer than cigarettes, does carry some risk.....but I think the majority of us are prepared to live with that risk if it stops us from smoking...

          The most recent article on the link between oral cancer and snus is this one "Risk of gastroesophageal cancer among smokers and users of Scandinavian moist snuff" Int. J. Cancer: 122, 1095โ€“1099 (2008)

          Unfortunately I do not have a link to a publicly available copy.

          Below is the summary and discussion:


          Although Scandinavian moist snuff (โ€˜โ€˜snusโ€™โ€™), no doubt, is a safer alternative to smoking, there is limited evidence against an association with gastroesophageal cancers. In a retrospective cohort study, we investigated esophageal and stomach cancer incidence among 336,381 male Swedish construction workers who provided information on tobacco smoking and snus habits within a health surveillance program between 1971 and 1993. Essentially complete follow-up through 2004 was accomplished through linkage to several nationwide registers. Multivariable Cox proportional hazards regression models estimated relative risks (RR) and 95% confidence intervals (CIs). Compared to never-users of any tobacco, smokers had increased risks for adenocarcinoma (RR 5 2.3, 95% CI 1.4โ€“3.7) and squamous cell carcinoma (RR 5 5.2,95% CI 3.1โ€“8.6) of the esophagus, as well as cardia (RR 5 2.1,
          95% CI 1.5โ€“3.0) and noncardia stomach (RR 5 1.3, 95% CI 1.2โ€“ 1.6) cancers. We also observed excess risks for esophageal squamous cell carcinoma (RR 5 3.5, 95% CI 1.6โ€“7.6) and noncardia stomach cancer (RR 5 1.4, 95% CI 1.1โ€“1.9) among snus users who had never smoked. Although confounding by unmeasured exposures, and some differential misclassification of smoking, might have inflated the associations, our study provides suggestive evidence for an independent carcinogenic effect of snus. ยฉ 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
          Discussion

          This large retrospective cohort study with long and essentially complete follow-up confirms the well-established link between smoking and all major types of gastroesophageal cancer. It also provides new data suggestive of snus-associated carcinogenic risks. Although effectively confined to septuagenarians or older, never-smoking snus users overall had a statistically significant 40% excess risk of N-CSC compared to never-users of any tobacco. Although our data indicated that some differential misclassification of smoking status may have occurred at entry or during follow-up, despite several reports suggesting that exclusive snus users rarely take up smoking, this misclassification is an unlikely explanation for our finding. We found little evidence of any net protective effect of snus use through its presumed reduction of smoking doseโ€”neither in the mixed population of smoking and nonsmoking workers, nor among workers who were reportedly ever-smokers at entry into the cohort. Never-smoking snus users, further, had a substantially increased risk of ESCC when compared to never-users of any tobacco, again not likely explained by differential misclassification of smoking status. There was a nonsignificant tendency for a lower risk of ESCC among smokers who also used snus, but the purported harm reduction by snus use did not impress overall.

          Generally, adjustments for smoking variables in analyses that also included smokers changed the unadjusted relative risk estimate surprisingly little. The main reason is that the proportions who reported being or having been smokers at entry were almost identical among users (56.8%) and nonusers (57.8%) of snus. Hence, based on the smoking information obtained at entry, the scope for confounding was limited to the observed variation among smokers in regard to smoking dose, smoking status (current or exsmoker) and type of smoking tobacco. If this information would not correctly reflect the relevant smoking exposure status, either because of erroneous reporting at entry or due to subsequent changes in habits (differential or nondifferential), residual confounding by smoking might be a concern.

          We did, indeed, note certain weaknesses of the smoking information collected in 1971โ€“75. Nonsmokers were not required to actively negate smoking. Instead, they were instructed to simply skip the smoking questions. All cohort members without answers to these questions were coded as nonusers. Thus, the never-smoker category may have contained some smokers, who skipped the smoking questions for other reasons than nonuse. As nonsmokers were instructed to move directly to the snus questions, where absence of any response was likewise coded as nonuse, it is conceivable that of all who skipped the smoking questions the proportion of negligent smokers who skipped it inadequately was greater when both sets of questions were skipped than when the snus questions were answered in the affirmative. Consequently, it was suspected that the reference category of never-smoking nonusers
          of snus may have contained more misclassified smokers than did the group classified as nonsmoking snus users. The sensitivity analysis using admittedly self-selected workers with 1 or several repeat visits did not support this suspicion, though.

          None of the previous epidemiological studies on snus and esophageal cancer, 1 cohort study and 2 population-based casecontrol studies has shown any significant excess risks, but the point estimates for the relative risk, multivariately adjusted for smoking dose, were above unity in all, ranging between 1.24 and 1.4. Neither of the previous studies had sufficient power to analyze relative risk specifically for esophageal cancer in strata of never-smokers. This was true also for the 2 studies that addressed the association between snus use and risk of stomach cancer.

          These studies, 1 population-based case-control study and 1 cohort study combined CSC and N-CSC, adjusted multivariately for smoking, and were both negative with RRs among ever-users, relative to never-users, of 0.9 and 1.1, respectively.

          The observed departure from the proportional hazards assumption in our analyses pertaining to both esophageal and gastric cancer forced us to stratify our analyses by attained age (below and above age 70). This suggests effect modification by age. The RRs tended to be higher among workers who were older than 70, compared to those who were younger, consistent with a very long induction time. The oldest were also most exposed to snus from earlier parts of the 20th century. Such snus contained higher levels of carcinogenic TSNAs compared to the snus sold today.

          Some additional important caveats need to be highlighted. First, the analyses of some cancer sites in strata of never-smokers were based on small numbers (1, 10 and 8 snus-exposed cases of EAC, ESCC and CSC, respectively). Whereas the relative risk of ESCC among never-smoking snus users was statistically significant with a lower confidence limit of 1.6, chance could still have played a role, particularly since multiple significance testing was done in this study. Second, the lack of information about several confounding factors needs careful consideration. While alcohol is a candidate confounding factor for associations of tobacco use with ESCC and possibly also with CSC and unavailability of alcohol information is serious limitation, the weak or absent of association of alcohol use with N-CSC22 makes such confounding unlikely.

          Since there is meager information about lifestyle differences between never-smokers who use snus and those who do not use snus, confounding from other unmeasured exposure cannot be confidently ruled out. The restriction to male construction workersโ€” although a possible threat to the generalizability of our findingsโ€” allays concerns about confounding by gender, socioeconomic status and occupational exposures. Confounding by dietary factors remains a viable possibility, though.
          Although some uncertainty remains regarding the causality and the strength of the association as well as the generalizability to other populations than Swedish men, we conclude that at present, Scandinavian snus cannot be considered to be without a carcinogenic risk. ยฉ 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

          Then there is the Lancet article that discussed the increased risk of developing pancreatic cancer from snus. The Lancet article precedes the one above so they should both be read.


          "Detailed information about tobacco smoking and snus use was obtained from 279897 male Swedish construction workers in 1978-92. Complete follow-up until end of 2004 was accomplished through links with population and health registers. To distinguish possible effects of snus from those of smoking, we fo-cused on 125576 workers who were reported to be never-smokers at entry. Adjusted relative risks were derived from Cox proportional hazards regression models.

          60 cases of oral, 154 of lung, and 83 of pancreatic cancer were recorded in never-smokers. Snus use was independently associated with increased risk of pancreatic cancer (relative risk for ever-users of snus 2โ€ข0; 95 CI 1โ€ข2-3โ€ข3, compared with never-users of any tobacco), but was unrelated to incidence of oral (0โ€ข8, 95 CI 0โ€ข4-1โ€ข7) and lung cancer (0โ€ข8, 0โ€ข5-1โ€ข3).
          Use of Swedish snus should be added to the list of tentative risk factors for pancreatic cancer. We were unable to confirm any excess of oral or lung cancer in snus users."

          also

          "They (the Lancet) found little difference in health adjusted life expectancy between smokers who quit all tobacco and smokers who switch to snus."

          http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/70389.php

          I now hand over to Zero and Co to explain the stats....

          Comment

          • The Mad Celt
            New Member
            • Jul 2008
            • 10

            #6
            Well then...

            That about settles it then, eh? SnusOn!

            Comment

            • sagedil
              Member
              • Nov 2007
              • 7077

              #7
              Yup, I'm gonna die some day. I hear it's practically guaranteed.

              Comment

              • Steel Blue 91
                Member
                • May 2008
                • 163

                #8
                Originally posted by sagedil
                Yup, I'm gonna die some day. I hear it's practically guaranteed.
                I agree. I heard that no one gets out alive.

                Comment

                • Mr. Unloadingzone
                  Member
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 317

                  #9
                  Re: Snus lies and exaggerations?

                  Originally posted by ponysoprano
                  Many of you may have seen this. It's not going to affect my snussage one bit. It's little more than a factless blurb, peppered with vague numbers and a graphic picture of an unknown man with an unknown mouth cancer, probably a stock photo from the archives of some anti-tobacco lobby group. Let me know what you guys think. I smell Bullsh!t.
                  http://news.softpedia.com/news/Swedi...fe-83907.shtml
                  Hey, you DID find SnusON! Welcome!

                  That was a very misleading article by an obvious tobacco hater. Here's the key sentence in that article. It was tacked on to the statements highlighting the 30% death rate of the supposed test group: "Most of them were smokers". It doesn't say "ex-smokers"; it says "smokers".

                  Well of course if they were still smoking, they were open to all the risks of combustible tobacco especially cancer and, most tellingly, heart disease!

                  Swedish snus has virtually no TSNA's left after it's been processed. TSNA's cause cancer and along with tar cause lung disease. There is NO tar in snus. The reason the percentage is so high is that, according to the studies I've read (which are not unnamed like this "study" was), state that Swedish men over the last 30 years have been SWITCHING from cigarettes to snus.

                  This "study" doesn't say what percentage of the TOTAL study group still smoked and also used snus. So that 30% is meaningless because there's no context to judge it by.

                  It also concentrates on two specific geographical areas. Why?

                  In the United States, Toms River, New Jersey has the highest childhood cancer rate in the entire country. It's many, many times the national norm. They think it's something in the soil but still haven't figured it out.

                  If I wanted to do a "study" highlighting childhood cancer at any cost, I'd use Toms River as my "study" location...not a town which has a normal childhood cancer rate.

                  And that picture: how did the guy walk around so long looking like that without someone dragging him to a hospital years before?

                  It's still a dangerous "study" for snus users, though. In the USA, the anti-smoking Nazi's are frantically searching for ways to stop ALL tobacco use, including "reduced harm" smokeless tobacco. And with Rep. Waxman's bill giving the FDA authority over ALL tobacco products in the USA having finally gotten passed in the House of Representatives, snus users are in danger.

                  They are already trying to have menthol cigarettes banned because they say the taste attracts "children". Can you imagine how they'll use that argument against snus? The OffRoad Product Catalog alone would be enough! Because if this bill becomes law, "the children" is going to be their biggest argument against snus. After all, there is no "second-hand snus" issue. And if it's REAL snus, there's really no cancer argument either. So the new attack is already started and will continue: Tobacco Companies want to hook children on nicotine to guarantee long-term sales.

                  It doesn't matter that's it's BEEN AGAINST THE LAW FOR DECADES to sell or distribute ANY tobacco products to minors!

                  I'm not saying more because I'm just finishing up Part 3 of my series on Big American Tobacco and snus in the USA and the ramifications of the Waxman bill is going to be one of my next articles. I don't want to give away the end .

                  Bottom Line: Studies can be twisted and for every "study" like that, there are hundreds that say the exact opposite. That doesn't mean it's not dangerous to snus users. After all, the EU banned snus (except in Sweden and GO GOTTLAND! for telling the EU to screw off) back in 1992.

                  Three years ago, virtually no one in the USA had even HEARD of snus. Today, I'm seeing the words "reduced harm smokeless tobacco" (legalese for snus) creeping into the American media. America's war over snus has just begun. I'm posting Part 3 today. The end will give you some insight into that "study".

                  Great to have you here, welcome again, and keep emailing me. I just got my latest order from BuySnus.com.....it's chilling in the fridge!

                  Mr. Unloadingzone

                  Comment

                  • ---Nicotinic Acid---
                    Member
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 134

                    #10
                    Re: Snus Health

                    Originally posted by The Mad Celt
                    It is healthier not to use ANY tobacco productn!
                    Can't say I agree with this........

                    Comment

                    • Mr. Unloadingzone
                      Member
                      • Jun 2008
                      • 317

                      #11
                      Re: Snus Health

                      Originally posted by ---Nicotinic Acid---
                      Originally posted by The Mad Celt
                      It is healthier not to use ANY tobacco productn!
                      Can't say I agree with this........
                      The same way it's healthier not to drink ANY kind or quantity of alcoholic beverage, eat ANY fatty foods, eat ANYTHING with processed sugar or trans-fat acids.........and then you start to cross the street and get run over by a bus.

                      Live as safely as you can but LIVE!

                      Comment

                      • snusjus
                        Member
                        • Jun 2008
                        • 2674

                        #12
                        New research has shown that users of Swedish "snus" - an oral, smokeless tobacco - are twice as likely to contract pancreatic cancer as people who have never smoked. The findings come from an article published in the medical journal the Lancet. The study, by researchers at the Clinical Epidemiology Unit, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden, looked at around 280,000 Swedish construction workers who were surveyed on tobacco consumption habits from 1978 to 1992, and then followed up until 2004. The researchers found no increased risk of lung or oral cancer in snus users compared to those who had never smoked, but did find that snus users were around twice as likely to contract pancreatic cancer than those who had never smoked. However, smokers were still more likely to contract pancreatic cancer than snus users.

                        And yes, this is from a pretty reputable organization, the Cancer Research UK.

                        http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/new...7/may/18145975

                        Comment

                        • Mr. Unloadingzone
                          Member
                          • Jun 2008
                          • 317

                          #13
                          Originally posted by snusjus
                          New research has shown that users of Swedish "snus" - an oral, smokeless tobacco - are twice as likely to contract pancreatic cancer as people who have never smoked. The findings come from an article published in the medical journal the Lancet. The study, by researchers at the Clinical Epidemiology Unit, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden, looked at around 280,000 Swedish construction workers who were surveyed on tobacco consumption habits from 1978 to 1992, and then followed up until 2004. The researchers found no increased risk of lung or oral cancer in snus users compared to those who had never smoked, but did find that snus users were around twice as likely to contract pancreatic cancer than those who had never smoked. However, smokers were still more likely to contract pancreatic cancer than snus users.
                          And yes, this is from a pretty reputable organization, the Cancer Research UK.
                          So to summarize, cigarette smokers who switch to snus will be less likely to get any form of cancer associated with cigarettes. Reduced Harm Tobacco. Not No-Harm.
                          http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/new...7/may/18145975
                          So to summarize, cigarette smokers who switch to snus will be less likely to get any form of cancer associated with cigarettes. Reduced Harm Tobacco. Not No-Harm.

                          But tobacco users already know its use in any form has potential risks and have made the conscience, personal choice to do so. Skydivers make a similar choice. I personally will never die of skydiving unless a skydiver lands on me.

                          Personal choice, personal responsibility, personal risk....and the Freedom to do so without a Government or Government organizations treating you like a child.

                          Your study is good. Someone who doesn't use tobacco at all would want to weigh in the pancreatic cancer risks if they started with snus. Conversely, a smoker can reduce their risks if they choose.

                          Individuals not only need the Freedom to make personal choices, but the FACTS so that they make informed ones.

                          Again, good study and thanks!

                          Comment

                          • snusjus
                            Member
                            • Jun 2008
                            • 2674

                            #14
                            I also found this from the same study:

                            If 10,000 non-smoking snus users are monitored for ten years, according to our data, eight or nine of them will develop pancreatic cancer, as opposed to four amongst those who use neither product. But 9,991 won't, so the odds aren't that bad," he says.


                            So, if you divide 10,000 by 9, this means that snus users have a 1/1111 chance of dying from their habit . As opposed to cigarette smokers, who run a 1/2 risk of dying from their habit, I'm going to say I'm staying with snus.

                            Comment

                            • ponysoprano
                              Member
                              • Jul 2008
                              • 562

                              #15
                              Not a problem, if I ever start to show obvious signs of wear and tear from snus, I'll just behead a Highlander, steal his 'quickening' and roll a chubby pris to celebrate.

                              Comment

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