Dear President Obama: No One in Arizona is Laughing.

[Owens187]

*See above for an example of someone still trying to start a juvinile flame war.*

Go back to 4chan, please. This isn't how we at Snuson behave. We act like adults here. I am done with you.


/officiallydonewiththisthread

[timholian]

*See above for an example of someone still trying to start a juvinile flame war.*

Go back to 4chan, please. This isn't how we at Snuson behave. We act like adults here. I am done with you.


/officiallydonewiththisthread

Yep officially done after sharing the opinion we should shot any human being that showed itself on our border if the didn't have the right paper work. Then invite someone to call you an asshole.

So, I will retry a response instead of using the Berlin Wall.

ARE YOU CRAZY? Do you know what human rights are? If you don't like yours I am sure there is a country you can live in that carries the same belief.

[sgreger1]

Yep officially done after sharing the opinion we should shot any human being that showed itself on our border if the didn't have the right paper work. Then invite someone to call you an asshole.

So, I will retry a response instead of using the Berlin Wall.

ARE YOU CRAZY? Do you know what human rights are? If you don't like yours I am sure there is a country you can live in that carries the same belief.

Fake argument is fake Tim. How is it a violation of human rights to question someone for ID if involved in a traffic stop or a crime etc? And why is it a violation of human rights for immegrants to have their immegration papers? IT HAS BEEN THE LAW SINCE 1940, WHY IS EVERYONE COMPLAINING NOW?

If this bill is a violation of human rights, than every single other country is also in violation of human rights. Human rights mean rounding up mexicans and shooting them, prompting them for ID is not a violation of human rights. The only new thing really in this bill is that it puts strain on employers who hire people, but that's about it.

[timholian]

Fake argument is fake Tim. How is it a violation of human rights to question someone for ID if involved in a traffic stop or a crime etc? And why is it a violation of human rights for immegrants to have their immegration papers? IT HAS BEEN THE LAW SINCE 1940, WHY IS EVERYONE COMPLAINING NOW?

If this bill is a violation of human rights, than every single other country is also in violation of human rights. Human rights mean rounding up mexicans and shooting them, prompting them for ID is not a violation of human rights. The only new thing really in this bill is that it puts strain on employers who hire people, but that's about it.

I will try to refrain from sounding crass.....

If you are going to comment on my comment you may want to flip back a page and see what I was referring too.

Owens so gracefully stated he would like to see anyone at the border without paperwork shot. This is what I was referring to. btw Judge Faust has done a wonderful job at refuting your claims on this issue. You may give away your liberty but let others choose for themselves whether they would like to do the same. IMO, this law is crap and will be overturned. Its not doing anything for the conservatives in Arizona and I for see a loss for the Republican party in Arizona this election cycle.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one, even me.

[sgreger1]

I will try to refrain from sounding crass.....

If you are going to comment on my comment you may want to flip back a page and see what I was referring too.

Owens so gracefully stated he would like to see anyone at the border without paperwork shot. This is what I was referring to. btw Judge Faust has done a wonderful job at refuting your claims on this issue. You may give away your liberty but let others choose for themselves whether they would like to do the same. IMO, this law is crap and will be overturned. Its not doing anything for the conservatives in Arizona and I for see a loss for the Republican party in Arizona this election cycle.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one, even me.

Lol, yah if it was in response to the shoot everyone at the border comment, than I could see how that "maybe" just might constitute a violation of human rights lolool. My bad.

And Judge Faust hasn't refuted anything i've said. We are having a conversation as to whether or not the bill will stand, and as of my last post I said I agree with him. The issue is that the bill itself is solid, it says nothing about targeting hispanics and stricly forbids anyone from racially profiling. It's fullyproof. The problem comes in when cops actually start enforcing the law. Since 10 out of 10 people breaking this law will be mexican, the courts are more likely to focus on race than the actual issue, therefore they may rule against the law. Doesn't mean the law is racist, it's just that one race is breaking this particular law more than anyone else.

Anyways, there is nothing wrong with the law, its a small bill and I suggest you go read it, it's not bad at all. It's how it will be implemented once it hits the streets that is the problem. Since inevitably 10 out of 10 people deported under this new law will be mexicans, it will become a race issue and may be struck down by the court. Any law that results in only one race getting in trouble will likely not survive a SCOTUS decision. Now if we could just fix the problem of one race consistently breaking that law, perhaps we can move forward on this.


And about this:

"Its not doing anything for the conservatives in Arizona and I for see a loss for the Republican party in Arizona this election cycle."


Lol, too bad the vast majority of Arizona voters are IN FAVOR of this law and will be supporting en masse the people who voted for this law. There are 500,000 illegals in Arizona, but there are 6 million legals (and 70% of them support the bill), you do the math.

[timholian]

And about this:

"Its not doing anything for the conservatives in Arizona and I for see a loss for the Republican party in Arizona this election cycle."


Lol, too bad the vast majority of Arizona voters are IN FAVOR of this law and will be supporting en masse the people who voted for this law. There are 500,000 illegals in Arizona, but there are 6 million legals (and 70% of them support the bill), you do the math.

We shall see soon enough, and I promise not to rub it into anyone's face when it happens.

[tom502]

I believe the mass of legal immigrants support this law as well, as defying it, is a spit in their face for doing the process legally, and showing they truly respect their new nation, but of course the agenda driven media does not show this.

Imagine if you loved China and became a legal citizen of China, and carried your ID/Visa with you proudly, yet millions of others were illegally tresspassing into the nation, bringing crime and drugs over the border, maybe some not, but still, wouldn't that make you mad, and if the nation was tired of it, and wanted to enforce laws to combat it, if you were a legal immigrant that respected your new nation, you would obviously support it, not side with lawlessness and illegal activity.

[timholian]

I like how I am thought to be oblivious to the immigration problem. I live in Houston, Texas what about that doesn't ring of Mexican Americans (although I hate that kind of term.. if you're American you're American to me) and illegal immigration? I see and deal with all sorts of the people this bill affects. I can't help but see these that some of you are willing to portray a whole section of people based on a small number of criminals.
Its not that I don't see illegal immigration as a problem, nor is it that I am some left wing nut job with open borders(I HATE NAFTA!), I just don't see why people are willing to kill or jail people who are only trying to make a better life for themselves in the same country that offers you that great privilege. We all think America is the best place to live, yet some of us are baffled by why some one would try to gain that same quality by any means possible.*

*I am not talking about CRIMINALS PERIOD, I am referring to people that have a moral compass no different that "Middle American".

[tom502]

Well, I see it like this. You live in a shabby trailor, work a low paying job, yet some guy down the street has a great mansion, does that then mean you have a "right" to move into this guys mansion, whether he like it or not?

This is an established nation, and we do have legal immigration, and most everyone wlecomes legal immigrants that come here wanting to live their American "dream".

But the bottom line, is these people who jump fences, or burrow through tunnels, whether they want to come here to work menial jobs, or engage in crime, is irrelavant, it's just the fact that they have illegally tresspassed into the country.

Our country is failing fast for it's own citizens, and yet 100's of 1000's of these illegals are coming in every year. I am sure many, if not most are decent people, but the person in the shabby trailor may be a decent and hard working person too, yet they still are breaking the law by moving into the other guys mansion, and should be stopped.

[sgreger1]

I like how I am thought to be oblivious to the immigration problem. I live in Houston, Texas what about that doesn't ring of Mexican Americans (although I hate that kind of term.. if you're American you're American to me) and illegal immigration? I see and deal with all sorts of the people this bill affects. I can't help but see these that some of you are willing to portray a whole section of people based on a small number of criminals.
Its not that I don't see illegal immigration as a problem, nor is it that I am some left wing nut job with open borders(I HATE NAFTA!), I just don't see why people are willing to kill or jail people who are only trying to make a better life for themselves in the same country that offers you that great privilege. We all think America is the best place to live, yet some of us are baffled by why some one would try to gain that same quality by any means possible.*

*I am not talking about CRIMINALS PERIOD, I am referring to people that have a moral compass no different that "Middle American".

I don't know too many that are against people wanting to come here for work. The problem is two fold:

1st) It is too hard to come here legally, and we border a poor nation with few good paying jobs, therefore illegal immegration will happen
2nd) Since we have allowed illegal immegration to get out of control to the point where the rules are no longer enforced, the criminals may sneak by as easy as anyone else

People coming here for work should be treated for what they are, an asset. Having a large labor market is a good thing imo, and foreigners contribute to that greatly since people from Mexico (for example) tend to be willing to perform the service jobs like cleaning hotels or mowing the lawn. We need people to do that, as in my lifetime I do not plan on working such a job.
Here in CA the agriculture industry needs them. But the problem is that our labor laws are not done correctly. If we had to give health insurance, a pension, and a living wage to field workers on farms, the cost of food would be even higher than it currently is. So we need these people.

But the criminal element amongst illegals is so huge that it cannot go unnoticed. By making it easier to come here legally, we can have workers contribute to our economy, and then we can seal the border relitavely shut so that the criminals don't get in. Simple background checks will weed out most of the bad people. But since our government has refused to enforce even the most basic of our immegration laws, it has forced places like Arizona to take a whack at it.

Do you blame Arizona? I sure don't. The people tasked with keeping the criminals out are asleep at the wheel, therefore the state of AZ must take control of the situation, and as a result of that, we get this bill. The bill could have been better but it's hard for states to make rules that bump against federal laws. The feds need to be the ones doing this, they need to be the ones fining employers for hiring illegals, and they need to be the ones to reform the immegration process so that it is possible for an honest worker to come here. Right now it takes years worth of paperwork and thousands more than the average mexican has at their disposal, so they come here illegally.


Since the feds have not created a system to filter out the criminals and let the workers in, we are forced to pass broad sweeping laws such as the AZ bill that just says "if your illegal get out".

Fedzilla is once again responsible for this imo, and it needs to be fixed. I don't think we should kill or jail people who come here illegally (unless they commited some serious crime), we just need to remove them. But none of this will work untill we fix the real problem which is allowing people to migrate here to work without having to wait 7 years and pay a bunch of money.

Give us your tired, your poor, your hungry and huddled masses, but leave your criminals at home. Right now the feds refuse to seperate criminals from workers, so AZ is left with only 1 option, "send them all home". Do you blame them?


EDIT: I have lived most of my life in mexican communities, surrounded by illegals. The parents came here for work, and had children, but all these poor people congregate in small, densly populated areas; this leads to crime. Their children grow up in these neighborhoods and it breeds crime. Then people start having anchor babies just for the welfare check, the kids are not the focus, therefore the kids grow up and contribute to more crime. Anyone who lived in long beach 10 years ago knows what kind of hostile environment this breeds. Cartels are only half the problem, children of immegrants who join gangs are a huge problem, at least here in CA.

[timholian]

Well I can say this with a fair amount of conviction.... This bill would never and will never be enacted in the state of Texas, ever. lol IMO, of course.

[sgreger1]

Well I can say this with a fair amount of conviction.... This bill would never and will never be enacted in the state of Texas, ever. lol IMO, of course.

Hey man, you never know.

Texas State Representative Debbie Riddle said Wednesday she will propose immigration reform legislation like the controversial law passed in Arizona.
Representative Riddle of Tomball joined Representative Leo Berman, of Tyler, who said Tuesday he would also introduce similar legislation when the legislature convenes in January 2011.

http://www.kxan.com/video/videoplaye...ppversion=1448

A dozen other states are also considering a similar law. If nothing else, AZ has stirred up the pot.

[sgreger1]

Arizona Immigration Law Inspires Michigan Initiative

A Michigan state representative is drafting a bill that would give police officers the authority to arrest illegal aliens who are stopped and questioned on another offense, while Oakland County Sheriff Michael Bouchard is making immigration a key topic in his race for the Republican nomination for governor.

[RedMacGregor]

/THREAD OVER

[tom502]

Yum!