Dear President Obama: No One in Arizona is Laughing.

[Judge Faust]

I concede, while the law strictly prohibits using race as a deciding factor, it may end up being ruled "unconstitutional as applied" since only hispanics will actually get caught (since they are really the main ones breaking the law). But how could it not? If the people breaking a certain law are 99% hispanic for example, how could you even pass any law enforcing this claw? It would be racist and unconstitutional as applied by default.

As a lawyer, how would one get around that? Like if there was a law against jump-roping, but only black people jump-roped, so only black people got tickets. It would get struct down and called racist, but how does a state legally outlaw jump-roping then? Or any crime that is committed by mainly one race? This is a problem we need to tackle in this country.

How to get around this? From my reading of current equal protection doctrine, I get the strong sense that the Court expects "color-blind" laws both on paper and in application. So, let's use your jump-rope hypothetical and assume that Arizona wants to crack down on jump-roping.

A good law would be: Anyone seen jump-roping is subject to arrest. There you go - color blind in writing and in application. Even if 99% of the arrestees are African American, there is no argument that the law applies to all races.

A bad law would be: Anyone that the police suspect may be carrying a jump-rope is subject to a stop and search. The law is color-blind as written, but in practice the cops will just stop blacks left and right. So, unconstitutional.

Now, back to the immigration law. As you see, Arizona followed the second alternative, giving the cops the power to stop and question those suspected of being undocumented immigrants. Clearly, this will mean stopping Hispanic-looking individuals for no reason. I am confident that this will be held to be unconstitutional. Had Arizona wanted to pass a legal law, it could have simply required cops to inquire as to immigration status of ALL persons lawfully stopped by the police. Whites, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, whatever; everyone gets questioned, and the results are the same. Instead, Arizona chose to go with this circus side-show simply to appeal to its loony right-wing voter-base, and will pay for this shortsightedness in federal courts.

[sgreger1]

How to get around this? From my reading of current equal protection doctrine, I get the strong sense that the Court expects "color-blind" laws both on paper and in application. So, let's use your jump-rope hypothetical and assume that Arizona wants to crack down on jump-roping.

A good law would be: Anyone seen jump-roping is subject to arrest. There you go - color blind in writing and in application. Even if 99% of the arrestees are African American, there is no argument that the law applies to all races.

A bad law would be: Anyone that the police suspect may be carrying a jump-rope is subject to a stop and search. The law is color-blind as written, but in practice the cops will just stop blacks left and right. So, unconstitutional.

Now, back to the immigration law. As you see, Arizona followed the second alternative, giving the cops the power to stop and question those suspected of being undocumented immigrants. Clearly, this will mean stopping Hispanic-looking individuals for no reason. I am confident that this will be held to be unconstitutional. Had Arizona wanted to pass a legal law, it could have simply required cops to inquire as to immigration status of ALL persons lawfully stopped by the police. Whites, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, whatever; everyone gets questioned, and the results are the same. Instead, Arizona chose to go with this circus side-show simply to appeal to its loony right-wing voter-base, and will pay for this shortsightedness in federal courts.

Wow, I think me and you finally see eye to eye on something. I think they were trying to make it so it was less burdensome on legals, as in, if they have no reason to suspect you of it they won't bother you, but then it gets into the issue of "since 99% of illegals are hispanics, mainly hispanics would be the ones being questioned." I think they should have made it so that they ask everyone, but right now it's more of a "if you get stopped, the officer may decide if your suspicious". Then again, i think it would be hard to run every single person a cop comes into contact with against the federal immegration database, so doing it "the right way" may prove to be too difficult, which is why they chose this route.


I still support this law 100% but I can see where it may run into legal trouble. God damnit Arizona.

Luckily 10 other states are proposing similar legislation since the vast majority of the country supports the Arizona law. They see it as a way to get extra votes this election so are pushing it through now. Maybe they will write it better.

[Premium Parrots]

Sorry guys but I have to admit that I haven't read the entire thread yet. But I want to post this link. Please watch all the videos.

My only comment so far is "How can a politician oppose the law without actually having read the law"?


http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_ht...-anyway-video/

[danielan]

My only comment so far is "How can a politician oppose the law without actually having read the law"?

And where have you been for the last 200 years?

[Joe234]

The Arizona Law is a Nazi law!

Bill Maher was asked why why the majority of Americans
support the Arizona Law. He replied, " because Americans
are bullies."

**** the USA!

" Your papers please."


Stop The Drug War you fools!


LEAP - Law Enforcement Against Prohibition - Cops Say Legalize Drugs

Click Here
http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php

-----

[sgreger1]

The Arizona Law is a Nazi law!

Bill Mayer was asked why why the majority of Americans
support the Arizona Law. He replied, " because Americans
are bullies."

**** the USA!

" Your papers please."


Stop The Drug War you fools!

-----

Before posting your nonesense, please provide what part of the law you personally feel is "nazi" in any way. Also "papers please"? Lol, WOW, so when you get pulled over by a cop for speeding and he asks you for your ID, that is some nazi/commie "papers please" demand? You are equating showing your ID to a cop if arrested, detained etc to Nazi germany, who commited genocide against 6 million jews? Are you shitting me?

Yes we should stop the drug war but there is nothing Nazi about Arizona law. By reading you post I can tell that not only did you not read the AZ law, but that you are completely unaware of the laws in the world, or how laws in general work. You just called every single nation on this planet a nazi system, as they all have this law. Even LA has the AZ law, they just don't enforce it.

[Joe234]

Yes we should stop the drug war but there is nothing Nazi about Arizona law. By reading you post I can tell that not only did you not read the AZ law, but that you are completely unaware of the laws in the world, or how laws in general work. You just called every single nation on this planet a nazi system, as they all have this law. Even LA has the AZ law, they just don't enforce it.


Before posting your nonesense, please provide what part of the law you personally feel is "nazi" in any way. Also "papers please"? Lol, WOW, so when you get pulled over by a cop for speeding and he asks you for your ID, that is some nazi/commie "papers please" demand? You are equating showing your ID to a cop if arrested, detained etc to Nazi germany, who commited genocide against 6 million jews? Are you shitting me?

Blow it out of your ass! Racist.

THE USA- The only modern country without a health care plan yet.
THE USA- The country that taxes out SNUS!
THE USA- Involved in two wars. One based on lies!
THE USA- Did not end slavery until 20 years after Europe.

Suck on it redneck




---

-----

[truthwolf1]

I also agree with legalizing/decriminalization of all drugs but the older generation who votes is throroughly against it.

It would really be nice to see a miracle on the marijuana vote though in Cali!

Bill is a Zionist and full of crap hypocrite. Try getting somewhere without constant NAZI style bullying if you are a palestinian in Isreal. Why dont they just have open borders there Bill?

[sgreger1]

Blow it out of your ass! Racist.

THE USA- The only modern country without a health care plan yet.
THE USA- The country that taxes out SNUS!
THE USA- Involved in two wars. One based on lies!
THE USA- Did not end slavery until 20 years after Europe.

Suck on it redneck




---

-----

First of all, I am half Puerto Rican and am married to a philipino woman who was born in the philipines. I am not racist.

Second, I asked you to provide a citation from the legislation to back up your claim that this is in some way nazi, or racist. Obviousely you cannot provide any evidence, because if you could you would have been shoving it in my face by now. Every nation on the planet has this law, you are calling every country and every state therein a racist.

So, based on that, you are just a troll spamming this thread, and have nothing to add to the actual discusion.

As for the rest of your trolltastic talking points:

THE USA- The only modern country without a health care plan yet.

- The US healthcare system is arguably the best in the world. The issue was getting adequate and affordable insurance, not the actual level of care.
- We just passed our new healthcare "plan" a few months ago, which will alleviate some of the problems with obtaining insurance.

So like all of your previouse statements, your claim is patently false and you made it up out of thin air.

THE USA- The country that taxes out SNUS!

- Thank God I don't live in the EU where it's illegal in some places. All countries tax tobacco products in one way or another. So, once again, your comment sheds no negative light on the US. Just more hyperbole.

THE USA- Involved in two wars. One based on lies!

There are many countries also involved in these wars, that's why troops overseas are refered to as the coalition forces. Countries from Europe to Canada all have troops there as well, the USA is not the only one fighting these wars. Yes one is based on lies and needs to be ended. But many countries have had wars this last century, and every century before that, so again the US is no different here.

THE USA- Did not end slavery until 20 years after Europe.

Actually it was 32 years. The United states of America abolished slavery in December,1865, when Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, while slavery ended in the British empire after the act of 1833.

But what the f*ck does this have to do with our conversation? There are many countries who abolished slavery way later, and slavery is still abundant all around the world today. So once again, this bullshit talking point does not shed any negative light on the United States.

In 539 BC, Cyrus the Great issues the Cyrus cylinder and abolishes slavery[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]

So the British Empire ended slavery 2,371 years after Cyrus the great, does this have any bearing on anything?


"Suck on it redneck "

Nice, keeping it classy by attempting to belittle me through the use of a cliche racist term for white people. Perhaps you should return to your 4th grade education and work on that before posting spam nonesense on this thread. (You cock).

[timholian]

Does Immigration Cost Jobs?


Summary

Do immigrants take American jobs? It’s a common refrain among those who want to tighten limits on legal immigration and deny a "path to citizenship" — which they call "amnesty" — to the millions of immigrants living in the U.S. illegally. There’s even a new Reclaim American Jobs Caucus in the House, with at least 41 members.
But most economists and other experts say there’s little to support the claim. Study after study has shown that immigrants grow the economy, expanding demand for goods and services that the foreign-born workers and their families consume, and thereby creating jobs. There is even broad agreement among economists that while immigrants may push down wages for some, the overall effect is to increase average wages for American-born workers.


Original Article [Here]

[sgreger1]

Does Immigration Cost Jobs?


Summary

Do immigrants take American jobs? It’s a common refrain among those who want to tighten limits on legal immigration and deny a "path to citizenship" — which they call "amnesty" — to the millions of immigrants living in the U.S. illegally. There’s even a new Reclaim American Jobs Caucus in the House, with at least 41 members.
But most economists and other experts say there’s little to support the claim. Study after study has shown that immigrants grow the economy, expanding demand for goods and services that the foreign-born workers and their families consume, and thereby creating jobs. There is even broad agreement among economists that while immigrants may push down wages for some, the overall effect is to increase average wages for American-born workers.


Original Article [Here]

That is for the most part completely true. A large labor pool is a good thing.

This is why we need to make it easier to come here legally. We cannot just close the border, we need to make it easier to come here through legal chanels, therefore everyone is accounted for, backgrounds screened, and properly taxed, not living in the shadows.

I like the model the EU has myself, where everyone is free to move around and work anywhere in the EU, but your not a citizen in every territory. By allowing people to easly move around through the borders (legally), it creates a large labor pool which is a good thing. Under this model, mexicans would be able to come here to work, but would not be American citzens (unless they choose to apply for that). That way they pay their taxes, and it can all be tracked, meanwhile we can screen out all of the criminals (that have previouse criminal records that is)

[Darwin]

I don't suppose anyone has actually read the Arizona statute. If they had all this hyperventilating about what horrors it contains would be pointless. The only "nazi" like sections of the law, and there a quite a few, are the ones that encourage peace officers to enforce existing federal immigration laws with no profiling allowed. If during a traffic stop or investigation of criminal activity an individual can not present a valid ID, required in every last jurisdiction in this country, then if the officer has justifiable suspicions about the person's citizenship status then further questions and actions may be taken but only as prescribed under federal law. Note the "justifiable" part. In no wise whatsover can a peace officer question someone with a valid state or federally issued ID card about his citizenship status. This is precisely the same procedure followed in the even the most unicultural lily white jurisdiction in the country.

[sgreger1]

THat's what i'm saying, if anyone has read the law, there is no way they could be opposed to it. As far as a law goes, it is not really that big of a deal and doesn't really create anything new. It's more a states rights statement than a new law if you ask me.

It's like if the feds abolished slavery, but then some states continued having slaves and the feds did nothing to stop it. This law would be like AZ saying "Okay, f*ck the feds then, we are forcing the enforcement of the federal no slave law in our state, who cares if other states still have slaves, we will not stand for this crime and in AZ we will not tolerate it, so we are telling our cops to make sure no one is caught owning slaves.

[Darwin]

I noticed that the Los Angeles city council has floated some jackasinine proposal to call for a boycott of Arizona and that Arizona has responded with a threat to cut off the electrical power that the city gets from Arizona power plants. State vs. state, dogs & cats living together, total chaos. Hunter Thompson would love all this.

[tom502]

It is the racists that oppose the law, because they believe the laws of the nation do not apply to brown people, that they should get a free pass because of their skin. They also want open borders to be able to make America, Neuvo Mexicana, and then move up to Canada after that. It is in a sense a genocide plan, neo-nazi groups like La Raza plainly state it, they want to outbreed away the European Americans and take over the nation, sadly we have a president that agrees with them.