someone comes forward and says "hey, we want to help pay for new development on your site so you can upgrade and get off that antique phpbb software" you say "GREAT! thanks.."
Chad has left the building?
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I noticed that I was locked out for a few days , I am curious as to why? I do sometimes sleepwalk but I am pretty sure I didn't sleep betray anyone or sleep join a conspiracy.
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Originally posted by GENERAL BILLYI noticed that I was locked out for a few days , I am curious as to why? I do sometimes sleepwalk but I am pretty sure I didn't sleep betray anyone or sleep join a conspiracy.
:^D
I don't know. Seriously; how'd you get back in? Was the site not accepting your credentials, and then it did accept them?
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Originally posted by lxskllrOriginally posted by GENERAL BILLYI noticed that I was locked out for a few days , I am curious as to why? I do sometimes sleepwalk but I am pretty sure I didn't sleep betray anyone or sleep join a conspiracy.
:^D
I don't know. Seriously; how'd you get back in? Was the site not accepting your credentials, and then it did accept them?
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Originally posted by RedMacGregorsomeone comes forward and says "hey, we want to help pay for new development on your site so you can upgrade and get off that antique phpbb software" you say "GREAT! thanks.."
Hey phpbb is the old school Caddy of internet forums!
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Originally posted by GENERAL BILLYLOL Yeah, I couldn't log in from Sunday until today. Probably just a coincidence as the most controversial thing I have ever said is that I like General but reading this thread made me wonder.
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Thank you Ice for posting this and thank you and the rest of the mods for all that you do.
I want to be careful here because I genuinely like Chad and am sorry to see him gone. I also have been in contact with both he and Christi and offered to see if I could smooth things over and get them reinstated (not that I have any special pull but only that I was willing to try and do what I could to see this issue come to a happy resolve).
That said, having read Ice’s posts, I can vouch for much of what he said as well as the general context in which these events occurred.
Let me give you but one example: several weeks before all this went down Chad PMed me and asked me if he could copy the Dipper’s Guide to his forum. I responded that I was flattered that he would want it on his site but that I did no know if I had the right to give him that permission (since others have contributed so much to the thread). I also told him that I did not see any reason to reinvent the wheel. What I recommended and what I gave my consent to (I want to make this very clear- what I agreed to) was that he simply put a link to it in his dipper’s section.
A day later he told me to check the site. However, instead of a link to snuson and the Guide there was an abridged version of the Guide with no mention of snuson (the abridged Guide was still there in the Archive section of his site a few days ago, if you want to check it out).
This really bothered me. In fact I wrote the mods to let them know what had taken place because I felt that I had just stepped into the middle of something that was not going to end well (and Walla here we are with something not ending well).
The reason I felt this way was because it seemed Chad was trying to duplicate, pilfer, and replace snuson. This brought back some old memories
You see I was there for Chad’s first post. I saw the beginning of the Sage-Chad drama as it unfolded in real time. I know why it started. It started because Chad announced that he was starting a forum just like snuson and that we would all be welcomed to come post there without any BS.
The point is that this has always been Chad’s dream. And what I was beginning to see a few weeks back seemed as if he was putting that dream into action.
Now let me be the first to say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with starting a snus blog or discussion board or forum. I too wish Chad all the best. There is nothing wrong with using material from other sites. What I have a problem with is not giving credit where credit is due. What bothers me is when someone tries to use information, contacts, and even WHOLE THREADS from one place without giving that site its due props.
In a since snuson gave Chad the platform to become well known in the snus world. But instead of returning the love, he used the site and took what he needed from it. At the same time, he seemed to badmouth the site to which he owed such a great debt and pit his own site against it. I think this may be what Ice meant when he said Chad betrayed us.
There is always more to a saga than first appears. Once I read Ice’s account, the pieces that I was missing all came together.
I now understand.
dog 8)
One more point: I always want to give people the benefit of the doubt. So Chad if I have misunderstood you motives or have given an unfair accounting of the events that passed between us, then please forgive me. However, there were enough concrete things that occurred that if this is a misunderstanding it was certainly fostered by some very unwise choices at best. If we have misread the whole situation along with your motives then let the moderators know. They are fair and they will listen.When it's my time to go, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my uncle did....... Not screaming in terror like his passengers
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Originally posted by SnusdogThank you Ice for posting this and thank you and the rest of the mods for all that you do.
I want to be careful here because I genuinely like Chad and am sorry to see him gone. I also have been in contact with both he and Christi and offered to see if I could smooth things over and get them reinstated (not that I have any special pull but only that I was willing to try and do what I could to see this issue come to a happy resolve).
That said, having read Ice’s posts, I can vouch for much of what he said as well as the general context in which these events occurred.
Let me give you but one example: several weeks before all this went down Chad PMed me and asked me if he could copy the Dipper’s Guide to his forum. I responded that I was flattered that he would want it on his site but that I did no know if I had the right to give him that permission (since others have contributed so much to the thread). I also told him that I did not see any reason to reinvent the wheel. What I recommended and what I gave my consent to (I want to make this very clear- what I agreed to) was that he simply put a link to it in his dipper’s section.
A day later he told me to check the site. However, instead of a link to snuson and the Guide there was an abridged version of the Guide with no mention of snuson (the abridged Guide was still there in the Archive section of his site a few days ago, if you want to check it out).
This really bothered me. In fact I wrote the mods to let them know what had taken place because I felt that I had just stepped into the middle of something that was not going to end well (and Walla here we are with something not ending well).
The reason I felt this way was because it seemed Chad was trying to duplicate, pilfer, and replace snuson. This brought back some old memories
You see I was there for Chad’s first post. I saw the beginning of the Sage-Chad drama as it unfolded in real time. I know why it started. It started because Chad announced that he was starting a forum just like snuson and that we would all be welcomed to come post there without any BS.
The point is that this has always been Chad’s dream. And what I was beginning to see a few weeks back seemed as if he was putting that dream into action.
Now let me be the first to say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with starting a snus blog or discussion board or forum. I too wish Chad all the best. There is nothing wrong with using material from other sites. What I have a problem with is not giving credit where credit is due. What bothers me is when someone tries to use information, contacts, and even WHOLE THREADS from one place without giving that site its due props.
In a since snuson gave Chad the platform to become well known in the snus world. But instead of returning the love, he used the site and took what he needed from it. At the same time, he seemed to badmouth the site to which he owed such a great debt and pit his own site against it. I think this may be what Ice meant when he said Chad betrayed us.
There is always more to a saga than first appears. Once I read Ice’s account, the pieces that I was missing all came together.
I now understand.
dog 8)
One more point: I always want to give people the benefit of the doubt. So Chad if I have misunderstood you motives or have given an unfair accounting of the events that passed between us, then please forgive me. However, there were enough concrete things that occurred that if this is a misunderstanding it was certainly fostered by some very unwise choices at best. If we have misread the whole situation along with your motives then let the moderators know. They are fair and they will listen.
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So this is how it works around here huh, throwing other members under the bus when it's convenient. Nice to know.
Chad is free to start his own forum and all, though he shouldn't jack content from Snuson, but at the same time I wouldn't give praise to a site that has banned me after I contributed so much either. Btw, snusdog, dippers guide to snusing is what started me on snus! There should be a statue in your name!!! lol.
I think this whole thing is getting out of hand quickly. Chad's blog post was pretty inflammatory, with "Free Speech Banned" graphics and all, but if his only crime was wanting to start another snus website to spread the word than I don't see what is so terrible.
I don't think anyone could even remotely claim that snuson hinders free speech even in the slightest, but doing things like banning popular distributors, banning popular members, and deleting every thread that mention's Chad's name is also shady to say the least. At least 2 threads were deleted JUST TODAY and this whole thing wasn't brought to a public status until there was sufficient grumbling amongst the members.
Can't we all just get along? With Chad and Jonathon banned I am pretty bummed. Ice has created such an amazing snus forum yet this kind of politics is getting in the way of good friends, which is unacceptable. Why can't Chad start his own site without all the drama? He is helping spread the snus message. Why not just kick him down from moderator to normal member again? Why ban people who also voiced concern about the Northerner takeover? Why delete every thread mentioning the northerner/snuson alliance?
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This is Ice's site and Ice's rules.
He is the one paying the bills.
If you break the rules here he has every right to "throw you under the bus".
Chad and Jonathon brought the drama on themselves.
When your moderators start hijacking content and badmouthing the site behind your back it's time to cut them loose.
When vendors come here and spam the site after they've been warned against it, it's time to cut them loose.
The Golden Rule: He Who Has the Gold Makes the Rules
You are a free market capitalist right?
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Peace brothers.
or I KILL youGrant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I killed because they were annoying......
I've been wrong lots of times. Lots of times I've thought I was wrong only to find out that I was right in the beginning.
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Let me chime in
First sgreger1,
I want to assure you and the rest of the forum that I was in no way trying to throw anyone under the bus. In fact right the opposite was the case.
My post had two objectives:
The first came about after reading Ice’s posts. It really did provide me with the pieces that I was missing to make sense of this whole thing. Therefore, I wanted to fill in some of the context that lead up to the situation. I thought it was important for us to see that our moderators were not using draconian measures but rather were acting from a legitimate context.
I understand that some posts were deleted. Now while we may not agree with that move or think it was the wise thing to do, I think that we would all agree that there is a big difference between making a mistake in the heat of a situation and doing something that is premeditated and sinister.
My first purpose was to try and shed some light on the context that would help us understand something of why the actions were taken and why they might not be as unreasonable as they first appear.
My Second reason was that I hoped (and felt fairly confident) that Chad would in some form or fashion see the post and that seeing it he would understand how the events were perceived from the other side and why they escalated in the way that they did.
It was a very hard post to write. On the one hand it had to be blunt and specific so that all reading it would understand that this was not just Chad hating or mod ass kissing but that there were real concrete occurrences behind the events. On the other hand, it needed to be gentle enough to leave the door open for a peaceful resolve.
Chad has read the post and has emailed me. It is now up to Chad and the moderators to work through the issues, which is exactly where it needs to be- not publicly aired out here on the forum.
Maybe they will be able to work things out. I don’t know. That is none of my business. However, I do believe that even if they cannot, the split will at this point be amiable.
And that my friend is all that I could have hoped for from the post.
Peace,
dog 8)
.When it's my time to go, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my uncle did....... Not screaming in terror like his passengers
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