Fall of the Republic

[Bigblue1]

You mean y2k isn't real? ****, Alex Jones, you lied to me! This is one of the reasons that I never followed Alex Jones too closely, he was all on board the crazy train about how y2k was going to be the end. Like all end-of-times conspiracies ti turned out to be nothing. Not so much as a blackout after y2k at least where I lived.

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I am extremely fortunate to have been only turned on to Alex in the past year. I missed his whole Y2k debacle. But I must say just about every body in the media and the government at the time over played it as well. Yes I have heard some of the broadcasts on youtube, and yes Alex made an ass of himself. You know what though, that was ten years ago. The guy was in his professional infancy. Hell he was only 24 yrs old at the time. Nobody wants to talk about how he is a defender of freedom and has called the government out about such things as waco as well, when he was still cutting his teeth.
P.s. How do I embed without all the code showing up? Thanx in advance.

[chadizzy1]

SnusOn - WAY TO GO. I'm so proud of all of you. This is our FIRST POLITICAL THREAD without arguing! It's a big moment for me.

[sgreger1]

SnusOn - WAY TO GO. I'm so proud of all of you. This is our FIRST POLITICAL THREAD without arguing! It's a big moment for me.

Lol, sorry to burst your bubble but perhaps you missed the first like 5 pages lol.


No reason to not keep it civil. It usually ends up with the last 3 or 4 pages just being me and VB going back and forth lol

[RRK]

SnusOn - WAY TO GO. I'm so proud of all of you. This is our FIRST POLITICAL THREAD without arguing! It's a big moment for me.

Being a tobacco forum, we should all be adults.

[sgreger1]

I am extremely fortunate to have been only turned on to Alex in the past year. I missed his whole Y2k debacle. But I must say just about every body in the media and the government at the time over played it as well. Yes I have heard some of the broadcasts on youtube, and yes Alex made an ass of himself. You know what though, that was ten years ago. The guy was in his professional infancy. Hell he was only 24 yrs old at the time. Nobody wants to talk about how he is a defender of freedom and has called the government out about such things as waco as well, when he was still cutting his teeth.
P.s. How do I embed without all the code showing up? Thanx in advance.

Yah, in his defense everyone was going crazy at the time. I listen to him every now and again just because he talks about things a lot of other shows don't talk about. I like hearing everyones viewpoints. He has been pretty on with a lot of what he has been saying, i'll give him that. But he is too fast to call something fascism or a police state when it in fact is not. He is right however that it seems to be going in that direction. but I think that is inevtiable. As gov grows, so will the odds that it will go bad on us.

[sgreger1]

I believe anything is possible. Not always probable, but possible. I've been reading an interesting book, called the Voice of Venus, and I think it's one of those channeled book, take it with a grain of salt, but it, like many books that can't always be taken literally, has some interesting ideas in it. It seems mainly to talk of how the universe is multi dimensional. While we on Earth have a perception in 3 dimensions, but we cannot perceive the other dimensions. And lifeforms, and other planets, or planes, may have their existence in another dimension, and with our dimensionary limitations we cannot perceive them, even if we were standing right next to them.

That said, it does make sense to me. I think we are limited in our perceptions as humans in our stage of evolution.

I also think there is "evidence" that there may have been ancient civilizations on Mars with it's many anomalous forms photographed. These giant structures, with it's long weakened atmosphere and incredible ancient history, would surely have rotted away alot, but there are odd remnants of odd structures that may not be natural. This is not able to "prove" though, with just some photos and theories though. But I think it's highly possible, if not probable in this case.

I too believe that Mars has some very suspect structures. The whole face on mars appears to have been proved to not be a face at all since they shot it with some better footage, but all around the damn thing are all sorts of seemingly man-made objects.


My question is this: Nasa has to chose one site to spend 20 billion$ to send a rover to check out. Why not check out the place with a giant face looking mountain and a bunch of pyramid looking structure on it? Seems like the logical choice to me, but instead they send it to some crater somewhere. Or they launch it and claim that they lost it somehow and it just went off-line before reaching its destination. I think that they probably did not lose contact with it and are just using it for off the record research.



Also, the dimensional thing, I agree that this is a posibility. For example lots of people claim to see ghosts or other things of that nature, perhaps that is what this is. We are starting to slowly realize that the world is bigger than we thought. In the future, we will look back at our current perception of the universe and laugh at it like we laugh at how everyone used to think the earth was flat and that the universe revolved around it.


If any planet had life, intelligent that is, Mars is a pretty good candidate.

Cool new ion engine they already have a working prototype of can get 6 astronauts to Mars in 36 days. = really ****ing fast. No more excuses, we need to start exploring mars and seeing what kind of valuables can be found in/around the place. Once propulsion is cheaper, we can harvest whatever resources are out there to the advantage of the United States.

Maybe we could even get out of a depression without causing wars to pay for it? Unlikely though. lol

[VBSnus]

Lol, no, I have been saying exxactly what you described, but to much protest by you. Instead I hear how they havn't had enough time and how blaming Bush is the only answer. The dems are in power now, it's time for them to owit from this point on. They have the majority required to do just about anything, they should use this power for good.

Uh huh. So when they pass a public option, which they believe is using their power for good, will you demand the next Republican president do away with it? Doing so would ruin his political future of course, but he'd own it, right? That's how passing the political buck seems to work.

Also, you haven't been saying the same thing. You've been making these points and pinning most of it on the President. I blame Obama for PATRIOT and somewhat for the transparency. Most of the rest is in the hands of congress.

I have no objection to countermeasures, but to me it appears that his measures are not counter to what Bush did. Bush did bailouts, so Obama ups the ante with larger bailouts. Bush started 2 wars, and Obama is growing the war effort,

So you think Obama should have simply pulled out of the war? Or should he be trying to win it by growing the war effort? I'd personally rather we finish right, something which takes manpower and time.

I maintain that complaining about things in the past we cannot change will not get us anywhere.

No, it won't, but putting all the blame on the current President also gets us nowhere. When you press the point that we demand change from Obama, I respect that. When you try to pin the mistakes of the past President on Obama, I have to argue the point.

The dems are in power now, it's time for them to owit from this point on. They have the majority required to do just about anything, they should use this power for good.

I actually like the fact that Obama doesn't go right down the party line. I like that he puts heavy demands on Congress, democrats included, and that he won't just shove things through. I think that if Democrats did as you said and just did what they wanted, it would lead to more issues. I appreciate the lack of bullying from the White House.

Yes, I have no insurance, and I'm glad it's being worked through over time instead of rammed through.

That's politics, they are trying to save face just like the dems who are in still in congress are trying to save face for endorsing all of this stuff in the past. They are trying to play like they had nothing to do with this and were never on board with the wars, that they didn't vote fo rhte patriot act, that they didn't force banks to give crappy sub prime loans.

They should have voted present.

ZING!

[Snusophile]

agreed people are so gullible...hopefully congress and everyone else will hide in bunkers or commit mass suicide

[Premium Parrots]

agreed people are so gullible...hopefully congress and everyone else will hide in bunkers or commit mass suicide

how precious

[Owens187]

Arm yourselves now..........and don't forget to buy bullets.

Armed, for sure. Now, if only I could ACTUALLY FIND some G*D D*mn Bullets!!! :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil: :x

[VBSnus]

Arm yourselves now..........and don't forget to buy bullets.

Armed, for sure. Now, if only I could ACTUALLY FIND some G*D D*mn Bullets!!! :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil: :x :evil: :x

I've got two clips of hollow points, one in the 9mm and one on the side, and two boxes of regular 9mm rounds besides. Clean, oiled, one in the chamber. Good to go.

[sgreger1]

Uh huh. So when they pass a public option, which they believe is using their power for good, will you demand the next Republican president do away with it? Doing so would ruin his political future of course, but he'd own it, right? That's how passing the political buck seems to work.

They were legitimately voted into office and given the power under our republic to do what they feel is best. If they want to pass a public option, than do it. I don't have a problem witha public option personally, it's just that what i've seen of the legislation so far would imply that you can only keep your private insurance untill you change jobs, and it would make it seem that the whole thing is actually a ploy to slowly dismantle private insurance.

If they pass it and then in the future people are upset about it and vote in republicans, then demand it be repealed, than let it be done. It's how a republic works.

Also, you haven't been saying the same thing. You've been making these points and pinning most of it on the President. I blame Obama for PATRIOT and somewhat for the transparency. Most of the rest is in the hands of congress.

The president has a lot of pull on what his congress does, especially when they are the majority and part of his party. As you have seen, he has been pushing his agenda to congress quite adamantly. Obama and his congress have the power to do things like not sign off on the patriot act and they have the power to bring transperancy etc but they do not. Just like you blame Bush when congress is the one who did most of the things, it's the same with Obama. He is the frontman so he is going to get most of the heat, esepecially when he is constantly addressing congress and the nation and making it clear what he wants done.

So you think Obama should have simply pulled out of the war? Or should he be trying to win it by growing the war effort? I'd personally rather we finish right, something which takes manpower and time.

Since we have yet to establish what victory would entale, and since there is no end in sight and no plan other than to grow the war effort, it seems that failure is inevitable. If we just used this ideology of stay in it forever than we would still be in vietnam today. We need the money, and our money is not showing a return on investment. I do say he should pull out. We have given it plenty of manpower, and 7 years is ample time.

No, it won't, but putting all the blame on the current President also gets us nowhere. When you press the point that we demand change from Obama, I respect that. When you try to pin the mistakes of the past President on Obama, I have to argue the point.

I never pinned past mistakes on Obama. he was deal a shitty hand, and also dealt the power to reverse some of it. Instead he pushed along with bush's plan of bailing out the bad players in big business and wall street, and continue the wars and rendition. Therefore, I think he does not get a pass. I'm not pinning Bush's mistakes on him, but by Obama continuing and endorsing these mistakes, he now has to take ownership. That's all i'm saying.

I actually like the fact that Obama doesn't go right down the party line. I like that he puts heavy demands on Congress, democrats included, and that he won't just shove things through. I think that if Democrats did as you said and just did what they wanted, it would lead to more issues. I appreciate the lack of bullying from the White House.

Yes, I have no insurance, and I'm glad it's being worked through over time instead of rammed through.

Obama started out with a lot of political capitol. It is dwindling down, the time for action is now. If he wants to do something, he better do it quick, or it won't be done. He does not realize this, and it is because he is too unexperienced to know how to get something done in Washington.

[VBSnus]

Holy shit sgreger. I actually agree with an entire post made by you.

Get those Church of Satan guys to check the thermostat in hell, I think it froze over.

The only notes I have are:

Just like you blame Bush when congress is the one who did most of the things, it's the same with Obama.

Except congress "did most of the things" and Bush signed them in. Obama hasn't even been given the chance yet due to a stagnant and spineless Congress.

Obama and his congress

Phrases like that are what lead to bipartisanism and the continuation of the two party system. The President owns no Congress. They may share a party, but by no means does that mean we should call it "his". I like seeing a President who has to fight his party in Congress, it's what makes this country great.

[sgreger1]

They have till 2010.



"The Gallup poll released Monday shows the public’s conservatism at a high-water mark. Some 40 percent of Americans call themselves conservative, compared with 36 percent who self-describe as moderates and 20 percent as liberals."



Most people I believe fall into the fiscally conservative, socially liberal catagory (aka Libertarian). If Obama doesn't stop burning piles of money, the voters will show his congress how they feel. That doesn't necessarily mean they should vote republican though, because the modern day GOP is not fiscally conservative, as was so well outlined during the Bush administration that produced (untill now) record deficits.

[sgreger1]

Holy shit sgreger. I actually agree with an entire post made by you.

Get those Church of Satan guys to check the thermostat in hell, I think it froze over.

I am buying an EXTRA expensive bottle of wine tonight!

The only notes I have are:

Except congress "did most of the things" and Bush signed them in. Obama hasn't even been given the chance yet due to a stagnant and spineless Congress.

Agreed. Congress right now is too worried about looking good for the 2010 election that they are stalling instead of doing their job. But, I am sure that once they come to a resolution, Obama will be getting out his favorite pen and laying down ink on everything just so he can say he's finnaly accomplished something.

The reality is that they are going to pass some watered down version of what he wanted (with HC), he is going to have to sign off on it so it doesn't look like he is laggin on the change, and everyone will get ****ed.

I just want people to have an affordable alternative if they can't afford good insurance, because we all have to go to the Dr, and I want my current good insurance to go untouched. It should not be that difficult. And I think it's what most American's really want.

Phrases like that are what lead to bipartisanism and the continuation of the two party system. The President owns no Congress. They may share a party, but by no means does that mean we should call it "his". I like seeing a President who has to fight his party in Congress, it's what makes this country great.

While you are correct.. the truth is that you know that we have a liberal president with a liberal majority in congress. They tend to work together when that happens.


I think we should have a hundred million parties all fighting against each other, with so many checks and balances that nothing can ever get passed that is too rediculous. then of course you would have the problem of nothing ever getting passed.