Fall of the Republic

[captncaveman]

I can't believe i missed this thread, i also can't believe i did read the whole thing. Good laughs.

[Premium Parrots]

We should all be singing this happy song...............


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0

[lxskllr]

We should all be singing this happy song...............


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0

Awesome!!

I love it :^D

[Bigblue1]

It's hilariously true

[VBSnus]

It's hilariously true

Yep, but I also find it humorous that it underscores my argument as well. "The government takes to pay for its solutions...healthcare, climate change, pollution." All known democrat goals and "programs" with no mention of what took us from the last democrat's surplus to massive deficit for the 8 years of the Bush presidency. But hey, it's about both parties, right?

Still funny though.

[chadizzy1]

I sing this one.

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dlgh46Qr6es&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

[Bigblue1]

It's hilariously true

Yep, but I also find it humorous that it underscores my argument as well. "The government takes to pay for its solutions...healthcare, climate change, pollution." All known democrat goals and "programs" with no mention of what took us from the last democrat's surplus to massive deficit for the 8 years of the Bush presidency. But hey, it's about both parties, right?

Still funny though.

I don't know, did I miss something, is this guy singing a registered Republican. I think I'v been pretty consistent in my posts saying that both parties are bad and not good for the country. That things need to change and change quickly. :? :? :?

[VBSnus]

It's hilariously true

Yep, but I also find it humorous that it underscores my argument as well. "The government takes to pay for its solutions...healthcare, climate change, pollution." All known democrat goals and "programs" with no mention of what took us from the last democrat's surplus to massive deficit for the 8 years of the Bush presidency. But hey, it's about both parties, right?

Still funny though.

I don't know, did I miss something, is this guy singing a registered Republican. I think I'v been pretty consistent in my posts saying that both parties are bad and not good for the country. That things need to change and change quickly. :? :? :?

You have. I've been pretty consistent in my posts saying that I'm not talking about you or any others who really do seem to be true Libertarians and not conservatives in a libertarian suit.

I can see how the quote box and emoticons can make it seem like I'm targeting you, but please believe me when I say I'm not.

[sgreger1]

Okay, I managed to stay out of this thread long enough. Time for my two cents, as I am "the resident Obama-Hater" :lol:


VBSNUS:
"In a perfect world, capitalism without regulation should work beautifully. But in a perfect world, so should communism."

This is absolutely true. I have always been republican but am leaning more towards voting libertarian or some other third party from now on, however I do not agree with them on everything.



@VB

Alex Jones is a radical and I think that is quite obviouse, but during the Bush administration he was extremely against Bush. I will give it to him that he has been consistent in his message that the presidents have ALL become puppets as of late. I think he is just focusing more on Obama now because Obama is the current sitting president.





@Sage

I know you hate political threads which is why I have tried to tone it down. A lot of people like discussing politics here, but I agree we should not turn this forum into a politics forum like so many others have.



Re: Tea parties being hijacked by the republicans


I have to agree with VB on this. I have been to two tea parties so far (probably not going to any more), and the sentiment is a very loud and clear anti-obama movement. Not surprising because he, like Bush, is trying to make sweeping and drastic changes to the US. This is why Bush got so much opposition and it is why Obama is getting his fair share.





A completely free market is not something we will see in America, and probably would not work. However too much government regulation/power is not the answer either. We in America are faced with he daunting tasks of trying to balance the two together, and it is not an easy task.


I agree with VBSNUS's idea for the elections. We need to get away from the two party system, and the only thing standing in the way is the money. We should put caps and give equal opertunity for anyone to run. I would like to see some non-career politicians be elected into office someday.





Re Fall of the Republic:

I am going to watch it right now, but like everything Alex Jones makes, i will take it with a grain of salt. He is right that there seems to be larger financial interests involved in the US, and it seems like all of our presidents are just puttets nowadays. Bush and Obama seem to be working towards the same goals. One campaigns one way, then does another, the other campaigns one way, then does the another.

The tea parties are a good thing in that is shows the America is upset. It shouldn't be all Obama bashing but since he is the president, and the only one who can change anything at this point, the heat is focused on him. He is the president, it comes with the job, at least Bush didn't whine and complain all of the time.



Please guys, I love talking politics, and I can flame just as much as the next guy, but lets keep it peacefull, the first few pages were unnaceptable, it was in part because blue came on with it hard, and then sage and him got into it. Lets all remember that we're all part of the same family here, and that it's like talking at a dinner table with family, it should not be a flame war like it so often becomes, especially when I am on the thread :lol:



Whether it is orchistrated or not, a NWO seems inevitable. Whether it is a good or bad thing is yet to be seen. Maybe it will mean everyone working together, but in my experience, absolute power corrupts.

[desirexe]

I am sooo disappointed, I thought this thread was going to be about STAR WARS!! J/k! Well, sort of...

[VBSnus]

at least Bush didn't whine and complain all of the time.

Nah, he was more of a "bitcher" than a "whiner", more of an "ignorer" than a "complainer". He was also handed a much better country than he handed off.

and the only one who can change anything at this point

But he's not the only one; Congress has to do its job first in most cases. Honestly, the fact that Democrats aren't all voting right down the party line and shoving it through should be a small blessing to all those who complain about the two party system.

Another problem is that the President SHOULD NOT be the only one or even the main one who can change things. One thing that I don't hear enough about is the poor deflated state of the Judicial system...it's an almost forgotten entity in some ways.

Denied for a pre-existing condition? Take it to court and get the law changed like every American citizen should be able to do. Oh, that's right, you can't because insurance companies have lawsuit immunity. Dad die of Vioxx? Take it to court, and get the FDA to clamp down on drug companies. Oh, you can't because Michigan drug companies have lawsuit immunity. Want more competition in the insurance choices? Too bad, insurance companies have monopoly exemption and lawsuit immunity. Get sick from the swine flu vaccine? Sorry, swine flu vaccine makers have lawsuit immunity.

Screw that. Why should any of these companies be above the law? A common citizen suffers due to their poor choices: bankruptcy, debt, lack of insurance, sickness, even death. But these multibillion dollar industries get a pass when they do something wrong. How convenient.

What's more convenient is that, due to the lack of legal recourse for the common citizen, we have no choice but to turn to folks far more susceptible to lobbyists to get anything done. How freaking convenient.

I would like to see some non-career politicians be elected into office someday.

That's tough, except following a disaster of some sort. For the most part, the people who would do best are the people who want the job the least. Only a very serious state of disaster would cause those who are most equipped to lead to the forefront (think of the founding fathers).

[sgreger1]

Hey VB, i'm about an hour into this Fall of the republic thing and honestly I gotta say, for a Alex Jones flick it's done extremely well. its covering just about everything you guys are arguing about here. Nice to see its not another conspiracy film.




Your right about how the system is ****ed up, but the fact that you repeatedly condemn republicans and Bush for creating it (which they did not), and then say that somehow what the democrats are doing is okay, is beyond me.

I mean really, Obama has the same guys who helped create this problem on his cabinet.

I just dont see how you consistently hate on Bush but defend the dems, when they are doing the same thing, and they are also at fault for this.

Its both parties that are ****ed up, I dont see how everyone wants to only blame the republicans and Bush.



You can say what you want about Bush, and he deserves it, but this wasnt all his or the republicans doing, it is the tim geitners of the world that helped manufacture this crisis, and now they are in Obama's cabinet and in charge of regulating the whole thing.

This is why I dont see things getting better for the average joe, you got the same nonesense going on in washington as always, and half of america is behind them saying "yay hope and change, everything is better now", when really we are just going further down the debt hole.


How many more elections will we have to go through where the politicians claim to be with one party or another, and yet all do the same shit.


No more apologies VB, we got it, Bush and the republicans ****ed up, and now the dems are ****ing it up as well. The difference is that we have a chance to stop it now that we all have seen the light. Just saying "give them time" and "Bush started all of this" will not change the fact that we are headed towards a disaster. The recession is not over, it is just temporarily taking a breather. Inflation still hasn't hit on the street yet and everyone is just holding onto their money untill they see where this whole thing is going. once everyone realizes we are ****ed, the left/right bashing will stop and hopefully Americans will demand action.


Soon, Obama's strategie of blaming the last guy will not work any longer. He will have to own it at some point in time. Constantly apologizing for him is not the solution.

[VBSnus]

No more apologies VB, we got it, Bush and the republicans ****ed up, and now the dems are ****ing it up as well. The difference is that we have a chance to stop it now that we all have seen the light. Just saying "give them time" and "Bush started all of this" will not change the fact that we are headed towards a disaster. The recession is not over, it is just temporarily taking a breather. Inflation still hasn't hit on the street yet and everyone is just holding onto their money untill they see where this whole thing is going. once everyone realizes we are ****ed, the left/right bashing will stop and hopefully Americans will demand action.


Soon, Obama's strategie of blaming the last guy will not work any longer. He will have to own it at some point in time. Constantly apologizing for him is not the solution.

You can call my "hating on Bush and defending the Dems" a case of Devil's advocacy. It's the counter-argument to the "Obama this Obama that Obama the other, but they're both bad" critique. When the argument is one sided, I have presented for the other. When the argument is balanced, my replies are, for the most part, balanced. It's how debate works. Trust me, it pisses my wife off something fierce when I argue for the Republicans when she has a one-sided rant. If I were starting the posts which hate on Bush and defend Dems, I could see your point...but I don't see a single post in this forum which starts off blasting Bush and loving on Obama.

I also don't buy the whole thing about how blaming the last guy doesn't work any longer. That's a direct counter to the conservative concept of personal responsibility:

BAD: Woman goes out, screws around, has 5 babies by 5 daddies, loses her job, becomes a drunk. Hands it over to the government and says it's their problem, own it.

GOOD: Party (and President) goes out, screws around, starts two wars, creates deficits never before seen in the history of the country, strips away our freedoms, starts policies of internment and torture. Hands it over to the next President and says it's their problem, own it.

Trying to pass the buck like that is nothing short of political welfare. Erasing eight years of poor financial policy will require time and drastic countermeasures...countermeasures which you also oppose. Ending two badly managed wars in now out-of-control countries will require the blood of more American soldiers...something that is now trumpeted as Obama's War. Turning around years of devastating changes to the system will require years of review and changes.

In short, it's the Republican party that should follow your advice and own it. They're the party of responsibility, the party of moral fiber, of owning up to your mistakes and taking the repercussions like a man. Instead, they're passing the buck as shamelessly as the "welfare mom" they abhor.

This is the kind of crap that led me to leave them behind. The party of cautious progression has turned into no progression. The party of logical and well delivered counter arguments has become outrage and distortion. The party of freedom has turned into the party of intolerance. In fact, the Republican party today reminds me more and more of the Democrat party I used to hate.

And the party I still really really dislike for that matter. I actually can't stand most congressional dems. I voted for Bush over Gore because I felt Gore was not equipped in any way to manage this country. I voted for Bush over Kerry because I felt Kerry was a self-serving managerial douchebag who looked like an old wrinkled penis. I voted against congressional and local democrats because they acted like used car salesmen and not political leaders. During this election, I didn't vote Republican or Democrat on any ballot except for that of the Presidency, because I couldn't stand behind either of the other parties in those roles.

So to directly hit on your point about me being an apologist...I hate that Democrats are still taking money from lobbyists. I think they need to get to work repealing all lawsuit immunities for drug and insurance companies. I'm pissed that they don't do enough for small business people, who pay more than the common employee but far less than the rich CEO. I want that review of the Fed and I want it now. PATRIOT should have been repealed. Obama needs to make due on his promise to make the congressional and executive processes more transparent. Any cabinet or congresspeople who are found to be directly hypocritical to their cause (tax chief owing back taxes, finance chair accepting VIP loans) should be removed or impeached. I have my gripes on that side as well. But no one has been arguing against me on that front, have they?

I haven't heard anyone say "hope and change, everything is better now." It's not all blame and complain...people are speaking out, and action is being taken; it's just not the action you want. I do see changes being made, albeit slowly, and I hope that time and history prove you wrong. But I can't guarantee that it will or will not. In the end, all I can really do is compare. Before and after. Bush and Obama. And now that this post has come full circle, I can go to bed.

[Premium Parrots]

either way it will probably lead to..........



http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/vk2k.shtml




you have to read it all before you comment please

[Cy]

Hey VB, i'm about an hour into this Fall of the republic thing and honestly I gotta say, for a Alex Jones flick it's done extremely well. its covering just about everything you guys are arguing about here. Nice to see its not another conspiracy film.

I'll agree with this. Ive watched all his other things and this has a much different tone. Mainly because it doesnt focus on 9/11, its hardly even mentioned at all in this one. Most of it focuses on the debt and the key players in it.

A good doc I saw on the national debt issuse is called I.O.U.S.A. it didnt take sides or go all conspiracy, it mostly covers the reasoning of why things are the way they are and whats being done to solve the problem. Good watch.