65% of Doctors Oppose ObamaCare, 45% say will quit if passes

[sgreger1]

The IBD/TIPP Poll was conducted by mail the past two weeks, with 1,376 practicing physicians chosen randomly throughout the country taking part.

Two-thirds, or 65%, of doctors say they oppose the proposed government expansion plan.
Four of nine doctors, or 45%, said they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passes the plan.
More than seven in 10 doctors, or 71% — the most lopsided response in the poll — answered "no" when asked if they believed "the government can cover 47 million more people and that it will cost less money and the quality of care will be better."

[VBSnus]

1) Yeah right
2) We have other threads open already to discuss this
3) 87.359% of all statistics are bullshit
4) I've seen polls that say most doctors support it
5) Still calling it 'ObamaCare' even though he has set it to higher standards than Congress is currently capable of fulfilling is an unfair word association and immediately makes me angry at anything else you say.

[sgreger1]

Yah sorry should have elaborated on the premise of my post.

its not really about what the poll says because like you I think polls dont represent anything well, it is about the fact that the AMA seems to have signed on to ObamaCare, and yet some polls say dr's are behind it and some say they are not. I find this wierd.

Its like AARP is behind it, and yet some seniors are and some are not.

And sorry, I use the improper term of Obama Care because there are so many things the health care reform includes it is easiest to sum it up in as few words as possible. Not saying Obama single handedly created this whole thing.



So the main question:

Why do we have such a confusion of information nowadays with 2 polls reflecting different opinions? Is there some inherent flaw in the way we poll people today?

[lxskllr]

Why do we have such a confusion of information nowadays with 2 polls reflecting different opinions? Is there some inherent flaw in the way we poll people today?

Polls say what the "researcher" wants them to say. It's all in how you phrase the question ;^)

[sagedil]

Just so you know, this really is getting old. I am about at the point, I will just have to entirely not read a section of snuson??

Is that what you meant lxskllr. I can just ignore it???

How many fu**en threads do we need of your crying because Obama is president. He won!! Get over it!!!!

lxskllr, my request to you was serious. This is coming close to ruining Snuson for me. I desperately need this as the one place I DON'T have to deal with this subject. My freakin refuge.

But is so bad now, so old. this ****ing crybaby "how bad and terrible the world is" posts are now. Every freakin day!!!!!.

I really can't even read this section anymore, until this get's fixed. And if I really can't read parts of Snuson anymore, that's a sign of how close I just don't want to be here I am. And that's just a shame I think.

Please reconsider what I asked. And I suspect I am not alone in this. I just have been here long enough to speak up.

[sgreger1]

Sage. Respectfully


The "People & World Around Us" Section is described on the fron page as

"This is a general discussion area where you can share anything from your likes to dislikes with friends all around the world. Join the conversation here."

I believe an issue which is arguably the largest in the nation would fit into this catagory, that is why I post it here.


:arrow: However, although we disagree politically I am aware that you are senior to me on this forum and I know I have been blowing up this issue too much lately.

Therefore, since your phantom request to Lx was probably asking him to delete the politcal threads, I will stop posting threads regarding political issues from now on, to show my respect for you having been here first.

Lx, please feel free to delete any of my previouse threads, I think they have been discussed enough.

Sorry to anyone else I have pissed off, but this is one of the last forums my company hasn't blocked me from using during break time. My bad.

[shikitohno]

Well, I'm willing to be political, so I'll post in here. Part of the poll results do reflect the questions. You'd make a different response to "Would you consider quitting and/or retiring early if the current health care legislation passed?" than you would to "What do you plan on doing if it passes?" Also, doctors are in with insurance companies, in that they lose a lot of money if the state takes over for things. Personally, I appreciate what the Democrats are doing, but I think they're doing it kind of half-assed.

I seem to break with most Americans in that I like the model of the NHS. It does work quite well, a fact proven in that the British public fares remarkably better than Americans do on almost all health benchmarks. But taxes are very unpopular in the US, so we want to try to make a compromise, where everyone gets covered, taxes don't go up, and businesses stay happy.

With taxes, you get what you pay for, so long as there's some accountability. So, first, look at New Hampshire, 40 minutes away from me in Maine. A lot of my friends are from there, but you have to admit, Maine does some things better. There's little/no tax in NH, so the roads aren't maintained as well, public schools aren't as good, services like unemployment pay less, etc. Maine has lots of taxes, but the taxes pay for things here that help people out.

Second. there's no accountability in the US government until things get F.U.B.A.R. and wind up on the evening news. Pork-barrel spending is ridiculous, and needs to come to an end. I really believe if we stopped letting Senators and Congressman piss away millions of dollars a year on pet projects that provide little benefits, if any, we could fund, or at least partially fund, health care for everyone with very little tax increase.

One other thing I'd like to borrow is from Japan. Now, no offence Sage, I feel bad that you just lost your job, and if I had things my way, this wouldn't really help you, but I do believe in it. In Japan, you lose all your unemployment benefits after a set time. I think it's either 3 or 6 months. Then, you lose them, and there's no appealing the decision. You need to get a job. I live in a town where there are many people who literally put in just enough effort to have their unemployment renewed and keep the food stamps and the subsidized housing coming, because they know they make more money putting in a couple of job applications and deliberately botching them up then hard working people do working two jobs at once.

If Britain's the nanny state, we're the helicopter state. We just hover around people, overprotect them from the real world, and expect everything to work out. People have learned to game that system, and they do it really well now. I'm sorry, but sometimes you need to let people fall flat on there face and pick themselves up again. Helping people is good, and I'm sure I'll appreciate unemployment should I need to claim it in the future, but too much helping and you hurt them.

That's all for this rant, until someone carefully dissects it piece by piece.

[VBSnus]

If you delete these threads I'll have no qualms, but give me time to copy/paste some of my arguments. I posted some of my best work in here.

As for polls, check out the official results from the ABC poll:

Overall, given what you know about them, would you say you support or oppose the proposed changes to the health care system being developed by Congress and the Obama administration?
46% Support, 48% Oppose (chart)

Okay, so 46% of these people support the healthcare change, 48% oppose it. Interesting.

Would you support or oppose having the government create a new health insurance plan to compete with private health insurance plans? Do you feel that way strongly or somewhat?
55% Support, 42% Oppose

Wait, what? 55% support a government created public insurance plan, and 42% oppose?

Say health care reform does NOT include the option of a government-sponsored health plan - in that case would you support or oppose the rest of the proposed changes to the health care system being developed by Congress and the Obama
administration?
50% Support, 42% Oppose

What??? 50% support all the changes but the public option, 42% oppose?

Would you support or oppose a law that requires all Americans to have health insurance, either getting it from work or buying it on their own?
51% Support, 47% Oppose

51% support a mandate, 47% oppose it.

...


...


So let me get this straight. Only 46% of those polled support the current health bill, 48% oppose. 55% support the public option, 42% oppose. 50% support no public option, 42% oppose. 51% support mandate, 47% oppose.

The moral of the story is: people being polled don't know what the hell they're talking about.

So you can't fix it.

[tom502]

There are many threads I don't even click on based on their title.

[sagedil]

Therefore, since your phantom request to Lx was probably asking him to delete the politcal threads, I will stop posting threads regarding political issues from now on, to show my respect for you having been here first.


Sorry to anyone else I have pissed off, but this is one of the last forums my company hasn't blocked me from using during break time. My bad.

No, it was to ban political threads outright as just not something we ned to do here.

ALL they do is inflame separation between us. They are harmful to a forum. I made the PM to him after another forum I use just banned those threads last week. I really agree with that idea.

BUT !!!!!!

None of this means I think anything less of you. Yes, I wish you wouldn't do this here. But you as a man, I like. And would never let something like this make me forget that.

I just posted to you on the other thread and I said" It is really funny, you and I are polar opposites politically, yet I suspect we are just a like in how we each deal with the world.

Don't let either of us ever forget that" Or something to that affect :wink:

So please know, I may have problems with the content, but not you!!!

[chadizzy1]

Therefore, since your phantom request to Lx was probably asking him to delete the politcal threads, I will stop posting threads regarding political issues from now on, to show my respect for you having been here first.


Sorry to anyone else I have pissed off, but this is one of the last forums my company hasn't blocked me from using during break time. My bad.

No, it was to ban political threads outright as just not something we ned to do here.

ALL they do is inflame separation between us. They are harmful to a forum. I made the PM to him after another forum I use just banned those threads last week. I really agree with that idea.

BUT !!!!!!

None of this means I think anything less of you. Yes, I wish you wouldn't do this here. But you as a man, I like. And would never let something like this make me forget that.

I just posted to you on the other thread and I said" It is really funny, you and I are polar opposites politically, yet I suspect we are just a like in how we each deal with the world.

Don't let either of us ever forget that" Or something to that affect :wink:

So please know, I may have problems with the content, but not you!!!

I don't like serious political debates or religious debates. I know what I beleive and I'm cool with that.

Now, political sattire, or religious sattire, I'm okay with. As long as it stays at JUST THAT, and people can laugh at their own parties/candidates. If someone made a republican joke, I can laugh about it. I laughed my ass of at the McCain skits on SNL, even though he was my candidate. But Sage is right (geez, what else is new), this will divide us, and that's the last thing we need. Save that mess for the other guys.

[lxskllr]

I'm not a fan of disappearing threads. So far everything's been fairly civil, and the topics clearly labeled. Everybody knows what can happen in political threads, and if one's not up for they can avoid the threads. That's always been my approach, but I HAVE to look at them now.

The American politics does get tedious, and this is a multinational forum. I'd recommend toning down the politics. Nobody's going to change their mind based on a argument on a snus forum, so what's the point? All it does it get everybody worked up with no return on the expended energy :^)

[tom502]

Other than some topic overkill, I haven't seen anything really bad or uncalled for. I think civil and respectful discourse should always be maintained, and we can't forget these are all just words on a screen.

[sagedil]

And I agree Tom.

This time

But I dug up some threads for lxskllr in my PM that did HUGE damage, we beyond ugly.

But my point is this. Why?? As lxskllr just said, "All it does it get everybody worked up with no return on the expended energy" And I said, it just divides us. Really, why?? Who is it directed at?? Your own side? The other side?

I have other sites I live politics 80% of my web time. I read Andrew Sullivan 15 times a day. I read New Majority, and post in their comments section. I go there when that is what I want to deal with, which is a lot. But I come here for snus and friendships. And politics has nothing to do with either

[tom502]

I don't disagree. Politics interests me some, but I think it's futile, and I may post a few lines now and again, but it gets old fast for me usually. I'm just waiting for the ETs to come and set it all right.