Discussion On President Obama

[Roo]

Thanks for sharing man. I wanted to let this one die, but the different perspectives on this forum are part of what makes me come back almost every day, so I enjoyed your posts. How about Clinton securing the release of Lisa Ling's sister and that other broad today? That was pretty slick.

Yeah Obama is spending like a sonofabitch. And the Cash For Clunkers commercials have got to go. Auto industry bailout. We get it. Good idea? We shall see. I think I just opened a can of worms. That don't eat Camel Snus lol. Neither do I.

[Badfish74]

I served as a U.S. Army Airborne Infantryman AND I rock the Crocs...so where do I fit in that equation? :lol:

Lol, what unit were you in? Judging by your location I would guess 82nd Ab. If so I was in the 82nd in 1-505,l but I have been ona protest against crocs since when i first saw them.


Why do you guys like those things they are the ugliest shoes of all time, are they comfortable or something?

No...I was in a TEXCOM unit...they just kept a couple of guys airborne certified in case we tested something that needed Airborne troops!!

Went TDY to Benning every so often updated my jump status, and went back to Cali for R&R...I was stationed at Ft. Hunter Liggett...probably never heard of it!!!


Dude!!! I hated them for the longest time...then I bought a pair to mow the grass in, and can't seem to take them off!!! Their alot more comfortable than a pair of Cocorans I'll tell ya that much!!

[Cy]

I dont pay attention to politics but I have a problem with this CARS program thing. Im certainly not against the idea, I think its a sound idea in theory, but their definition of a clunker is dumb. I believe the 2 basic guidlines are less then 25 years old and an average mpg of less then 19mpg. Some of the cars are piles of crap, but Ive seen some that were perfectly fine. I mean cars less then 10 years old with barely 100,000 miles on em. These "clunkers" all get the same treatment, the engine is "disabled" by pouring a silicate chemical mixture into the engine after draining the engine oil and coolant and basically locking up all the internals making practically unable to be rebuilt then off to the crusher.

Why waste them like that? I can see crushing the truly crappy ones but why not sell them back at a low price to people who cant afford the payments and insurance of a new car and do drive an actual clunker? Why not donate them to local scrap yards to be plucked apart and parts sold to the public? It seems like that would help economically on a community level. Alot of people are also throwing their business at foreign auto makers and helping foreign economies more then our own. If it were me Id make it so you can only trade in for the big 3 brands. I could go on and this is a whole seperate debate really so I apologize for veering a little of topic but its the main thing Ive had a problem with.

Overall I dont think hes been that bad but it seems like hes throwing alot of money around. I dunno, we'll see.

[lxskllr]

Why waste them like that? I can see crushing the truly crappy ones but why not sell them back at a low price to people who cant afford the payments and insurance of a new car and do drive an actual clunker? Why not donate them to local scrap yards to be plucked apart and parts sold to the public? It seems like that would help economically on a community level. Alot of people are also throwing their business at foreign auto makers and helping foreign economies more then our own. If it were me Id make it so you can only trade in for the big 3 brands. I could go on and this is a whole seperate debate really so I apologize for veering a little of topic but its the main thing Ive had a problem with.

Overall I dont think hes been that bad but it seems like hes throwing alot of money around. I dunno, we'll see.

It takes a lot of petroleum and energy to make a new car, and dispose of an old one. I think it's irresponsible to junk good cars for 10 more mpg.

[sgreger1]

Thanks for sharing man. I wanted to let this one die, but the different perspectives on this forum are part of what makes me come back almost every day, so I enjoyed your posts. How about Clinton securing the release of Lisa Ling's sister and that other broad today? That was pretty slick.

Yeah Obama is spending like a sonofabitch. And the Cash For Clunkers commercials have got to go. Auto industry bailout. We get it. Good idea? We shall see. I think I just opened a can of worms. That don't eat Camel Snus lol. Neither do I.

Lol, well the prisoner's release was negotiated and decided upon before clinton went there, Clinton went there to make KJI feel important since an ex president went there which is unusual.
Personally if you sent clinton to pick up my hostages I would kill them all, but I think they called it right this time: Lose face for america a little by sneding clinton over there and giving N Korea what it wants, instead of going to war over it. This time diplomacy was the right answer. So I give them props on that, even though clinton himself did not negotiate anything.


Cash for clunkers: At least its "working" and helping stimulate something, the only problem is that most of the cars being sold are foreign cars which means just more money out of our system but at the same time it keeps some jobs alive in the USA. Once again I dont think we should be spending billions to save a few people's jobs, why not just cut 100,000 people a check for a years income if you gonna do that.

[sgreger1]

No...I was in a TEXCOM unit...they just kept a couple of guys airborne certified in case we tested something that needed Airborne troops!!

Went TDY to Benning every so often updated my jump status, and went back to Cali for R&R...I was stationed at Ft. Hunter Liggett...probably never heard of it!!!


Dude!!! I hated them for the longest time...then I bought a pair to mow the grass in, and can't seem to take them off!!! Their alot more comfortable than a pair of Cocorans I'll tell ya that much!!

lol, 5 jump chump baby hahaha j/k. It gets boring, the only cool thing about being on active jump status is we get to do jumps from blackhawks, chinooks etc which is pretty fun.

Ft what? Never heard of that lol must be out in the cut! Maybe i'll have to try these new croc shoes and see what all the buzz is about, its just they look like somehting my daughter would wear you know? lol

[sgreger1]

Why waste them like that? I can see crushing the truly crappy ones but why not sell them back at a low price to people who cant afford the payments and insurance of a new car and do drive an actual clunker? Why not donate them to local scrap yards to be plucked apart and parts sold to the public? It seems like that would help economically on a community level. Alot of people are also throwing their business at foreign auto makers and helping foreign economies more then our own. If it were me Id make it so you can only trade in for the big 3 brands. I could go on and this is a whole seperate debate really so I apologize for veering a little of topic but its the main thing Ive had a problem with.

Overall I dont think hes been that bad but it seems like hes throwing alot of money around. I dunno, we'll see.

It takes a lot of petroleum and energy to make a new car, and dispose of an old one. I think it's irresponsible to junk good cars for 10 more mpg.

lol, yah it seems like a scam, calling it green yet in the end you use more energy trying to make everyone drive "green" cars.

It seems like jsut another program that benefits the rich or middle class, which is fine with me, but some people can't afford anything but a clunker you know? And now its going to be harder to find parts in scrap yards to repair older cars because they are destroying these perfectly good cars for an aded 10mpg.

[MasterGuns]

Yes, in the short term it burns more energy to build and melt down new and old cars. However, in the long term, say the next ten years, the environmental and economic effects will probably be substantial.
And as for this program only benefiting the rich and middle class, I have one word for that, and please understand this only out of frustration after hearing all the right-wing talk radio looney toons going on about the same thing: BUNK!
I can only offer anecdotal evidence, but if it's true for me it'll be true elsewhere. My sister was on welfare for some time as a single mother who worked a part-time job paying minimum wage and lived alone. She has been driving a true-blue clunker that still works, but burns oil and gas like no other. She will be able to upgrade to substantially better vehicle thanks to this program. As a result she will no longer be late for work due to breakdowns, will save money on gas, and can count on her new car working for many more years than her "clunker". To claim this program does not benefit people in her lower class income bracket is hog-wash.
And likewise, to claim that much of this money is benefiting foreign companies is ill-founded, though it's not bunk. Foreign companies (don't shoot me now!) make better cars. Simple as that. Also, there really is no such thing as an "American" or "Foreign" company anymore, there hasn't been for twenty years. If you buy a foreign car from a dealer on U.S. soil, guess what? You're helping the American economy by paying that dealer. Also, there are plenty (though definitely not a majority) of American stockholders in foreign companies, and vice versa. And if you want to believe that aiding American automakers would aid this country alone, you are mistaken. GM, for instance, after receiving government money, announced plans to shrink their domestic production and increase it in China, who is currently one of the top buyers of their huge SUV's, and has much cheaper labor in their factories and no such thing as pesky unions.
All I'm saying is 1.) this is the only program to come out of economic legislation that is working, and 2.) there is no such thing as a purely domestic corporation anymore. Those days are over. The economy is global, whether we like it or not.
I personally believe that if all the money that was thrown at the people who got us in this mess were put into programs like this one, this recession would have been over a long time ago.
That's just my dissenting opinion. You're welcome to disagree, and I hope this was true to the spirit of this topic.
I don't like the government anymore than anyone else, but someone has to play devil's advocate, am I right? :wink:

Edited for my trashy grammar and spelling

[MasterGuns]

I just wanted to come back after my last post and remind everyone here of the most important thing we all share in common.
We love snus. I will be flying to California today and can't wait to snus in the airport and on the plane. I look forward to the funny looks I'll get from fellow passengers when I pop some Onyx with my coffee, or bake a pris in the terminal.
So what I'm saying is, no matter how much we may disagree with each other over politics or whatever else, we all love snus, and though we may disagree over brands or stores or styles, we can come back to that one common denominator. Thank God for snus, and for snuson, one of the few bastions of reasonable human beings left on the internet!
Snus on! 8)

[lxskllr]

Lots O'Stuff

I largely agree with you, but on the issue of cars, if people are trading in vehicles with 100,000 miles, that's wasteful. The energy costs won't be recovered, and it would be better to let them die a natural death. The money would be better spent subsidizing Tesla motors, or putting money into developing an electrical infrastructure so alternatively fueled cars become more practical.

[MasterGuns]

Agreed. Unfortunately even the best government programs are still government programs, and therefore subject to such tom-foolery. However I believe that this is a good start and a step in the right direction.
I also agree on the point of building a more efficient energy infrastructure, though I think most would disagree with the means I would use. Unfortunately upstart clean energy companies don't constitute a large portion of the most important voting block: campaign contributors.

[Badfish74]

No...I was in a TEXCOM unit...they just kept a couple of guys airborne certified in case we tested something that needed Airborne troops!!

Went TDY to Benning every so often updated my jump status, and went back to Cali for R&R...I was stationed at Ft. Hunter Liggett...probably never heard of it!!!


Dude!!! I hated them for the longest time...then I bought a pair to mow the grass in, and can't seem to take them off!!! Their alot more comfortable than a pair of Cocorans I'll tell ya that much!!

lol, 5 jump chump baby hahaha j/k. It gets boring, the only cool thing about being on active jump status is we get to do jumps from blackhawks, chinooks etc which is pretty fun.

Ft what? Never heard of that lol must be out in the cut! Maybe i'll have to try these new croc shoes and see what all the buzz is about, its just they look like somehting my daughter would wear you know? lol

Yeah...5 jump chump...I did have a bit more jumps than that. We'd end up doing jumps every 3 months or so......the best time I had was at 29 Palms. This was back in the mid 90's...we jumped and fastroped out of Blackhawks and Shithooks...we were testing the (then) brand new M4 configged with the ACOG sighting system. That stuff is old news now. But you do have to thank us.....we spent a week solid in 110 plus heat in MOPP 4 to test the new gass masks...so you don't have to scrw with those nasty M17's and the cheek filters! :lol:

[daruckis]

i like that obamas at least trying new things. new things that arent the patriot act.

[Royksprekk]

I voted for Obama and consider myself pretty left-wing (in fact, my biggest criticism of Obama is that he's little weak on some domestic issues and fixated a bit too much on others.)

I think Crocs are the most ridiculous looking footwear ever, and should be collected in masses and burnt like old tires.

I swear by a good pair of steel-toe boots.


Am I doing it wrong?

[tom502]

I liked McCain more, but I wasn't a Palin fan. I just think the far left Dems are gonna try and control all aspects of our private lives, and they wanna take away our tobacco freedoms, and other things. Personally I am more a libertarian. But I try to choose the what I think is the best of what we have been offered. I hope Obama does well, but I am not convinced, as all I am seeing is more of the same, and things actually getting worse.