I'm Done

[TripEMT]

I think we all see your poin superdevil. it's a thread based entirely around political debate...and political debates never end in a civil fashion. They usually progress to low blows... but i have to be "The Devil's advocate" for a minute... You were posting in the thread, and it went a bit off topic, which as you explained seemed to offend you. I can understand how you feel... but... instead of popping in some of your favorite snus and moving to a new thread, you joined in on the bashing... making it a war... had you left, it would have been one sided comments, and everyone would look at them and think about how douche-ish they were. But instead, you joined in, and started saying things like "Stay in the woods like the animal you are and leave your wacko, crackpot fascist opinions at home." How is that ANY different than any of the other stuff. I don't take any offense to it, but i can easily see how someone with southern heritage (Like myself) would find offense.

*End Rant*

Ps... that wasn't meant for offense, and please don't take it that way, but i had to be the "Devil's Advocate" here for a minute. If a thread offends you, walk away, please don't join in.

[superdevil]

What everyone seems to miss is that while it started out as an orderly political debate, one dumbass made a stupid, ignorant, and racist comment that I responded to, as is my right. Holocaust denial, antisemitism, racism- these are all things that are not part of a political debate. Political debates I can reel off all day long, but bigotry is not something I tolerate.

As far as the animal in the woods comment, as someone who was born and raised in the south, and whose ancestors fought not only for the American revolution but for the War Against Northern Aggression, I'm about as true blue southern as you can get. Being a bigoted animal and living in your Unibomber-like shack in the woods while you espouse Aryan propaganda over the internet is not an image that should offend the typical southerner, just the type of guy that lives and acts like that.

And yes, I feel it's my duty to question that type of bullshit. I don't care if it's on topic or off, to me someone that won't speak up for what they think is right or wrong makes you just as guilty as the guy that denies the Holocaust. If your silence is your vote, then your vote has been cast, adn it's in favor of the other guy.

So no, this wasn't a political debate, at least after the part where sgreger took Premium Parrots sarcastic comment as a literal interpretation of "**** the Jews, the Nazi's were the shit" (this coming from a US soldier) and I in turn showed my ass over it. No longer was it a spirited, civil political discussion, but it turned into me saying a lot of mean spirited things to a few mean spirited bigots.

So I could have done like everyone else and ignored the comment, as I have in the past, and let the comment stand for posterity. But, I don't want anyone getting the impression that this is an antisemetic forum, as it seems everyone turns the other cheek when it comes to Jew bashing. That's my beef with the mods- don't censor someone who thinks differently from you, but at least have enough pride in your forum to not want it to get the reputation as a haven for bigots. I've been fairly silent on the subject before, as this is not the first time someone here got the idea that racist remarks regarding Jews and others are OK and protected under free speech. They're not.

So yeah, even though I'm not Jewish, I took personal offense to the idiotic comments that came out of the woodwork. I don't want to be associated with a forum that tolerates ignorant racism directly or indirectly, which is why I've decided to take my posting elsewhere.

[squeezyjohn]

Re: I'm Done

I can't keep taking part in a forum that attracts so many racist, bigoted neo-nazi sympathizers. For reference, please see the "what can fix americas problems" thread. I don't see why there's only two or three of us speaking out against that shit, but for me, it's over. The fact that a moderator would let some shit like that keep going, unchecked, tells me a lot about the way this forum operates (hint hint).

See ya.

Exactly the way I see it, it was only a matter of time before it came to this. I haven't posted here in ages because it's not worth the hassle - to be honest the informative snus chat has fallen to an all time low and it's become an American stronghold with all the ill-informed ranting that goes with the territory.

This place was invaluable to me as a way of finding out about snus with making the switch from cigarettes - I know all I really need to now. However - I feel sorry for people genuinely interested in finding out about snus now because they need a welcoming community to dip their toes in to. This isn't really that place any more is it?

[TripEMT]

I completely understand how you feel, and i wasn't trying to bash you at all, (on this thread, i didn't post in the other,) so please don't take it as if i were. I wasn't agreeing with either side. It started as a civil political debate, but in my experience, a lot of political debates end badly (like a lot of religious debates.) I look at both sides of every argument, and both sides were wrong at times in this situation.

You said you feel it's your duty to question that type of bullshit, but that isn't much different than someone questioning the Holocaust (I DON'T QUESTION IT, sorry, had to put that in there,)or the Moon Landing, Or the Kennedy Assassination. It's the right of every human being to question what ever they want. Insulting someone who believes that the holocaust was a hoax, or anything else (True, False, or Convoluted) for that matter, is no different than insulting someone because of their religious beliefs... Does insulting someone who has different beliefs, even if their beliefs are considered bigotry, not make you a bigot as well? It's something to thing about.

I understand that you, even though you aren't Jewish, wanted to defend those who are, and i commend you for that. There aren't many people who will. But...had you gone about it in a more civil way, it would have been more effective.

you said "but it turned into me saying a lot of mean spirited things to a few mean spirited bigots." That doesn't make it right man. Two wrongs don't make a right. Its old, and cliche. but seriously. You crossed the line at times too... It all boils down to the age-old "Do unto others thing."

And I'm sorry, But racist comments are protected by the First Amendment. Threats...no, But comments are.

I mean in the end. nobody was right. i understand where you are coming from, but to completely write off an entire group of people (SnusOn) is a little absurd. Try talking to a mod, and go from there. Be civil man!

[Soft Morning, City!]

Re: I'm Done

Exactly the way I see it, it was only a matter of time before it came to this. I haven't posted here in ages because it's not worth the hassle - to be honest the informative snus chat has fallen to an all time low and it's become an American stronghold with all the ill-informed ranting that goes with the territory.

This place was invaluable to me as a way of finding out about snus with making the switch from cigarettes - I know all I really need to now. However - I feel sorry for people genuinely interested in finding out about snus now because they need a welcoming community to dip their toes in to. This isn't really that place any more is it?

Gee, sorry there are so many American people getting into snus. And by the way, not all of us are ill-informed or prone to rant.

I still feel this place is very welcoming toward people curious about snus. I would have been completely lost without the folks here answering my initial questions and for that reason I'm still here, trying to answer questions and encourage newcomers as well as I can.

You shouldn't be writing off this whole community because a few of us got out of hand on a political thread. There's a lot of good snus information on here as long as you don't go looking for it in the "People & The World Around Us" threads.

[Quemador]

Re: I'm Done

...to be honest the informative snus chat has fallen to an all time low and it's become an American stronghold with all the ill-informed ranting that goes with the territory.

Because I know you would like for all of us Americans to have an accurate understanding of what you meant by this comment, please explain.

[justintempler]

as long as political rants stay in this subforum, I could care less.

There's too many trolls and keyboard rambos to really know what anybody really thinks. And being offended by bigots doesn't make them go away. I'd rather them be out in the open for all to see.

If you get offended by political discussions, don't have political discussions.

[Xobeloot]

If all else fails, you can just post rainbows and make fun of me. I won't mind.

I'll bring the soda and chips... But please don't leave. I'd miss you and have to post sad faces. Sad, bearded faces....

[Premium Parrots]

If all else fails, you can just post rainbows and make fun of me. I won't mind.

I'll bring the soda and chips... But please don't leave. I'd miss you and have to post sad faces. Sad, bearded faces....

Mr. X you may post anything you want but PULEASE don't post a photo of your ass again. 8)

[melly mel]

Any and all forums I've been on have political/religious threads. I try to stay away from them as much as I can. On some forums, I'll read what was said KNOWING that I could get offended or not agree with someone's comments. The world is filled with opinions and I may or may not agree with some but I usually don't bother trying to change people's beliefs with a few posts. It'll never happen.

For the record, I am on roughly 15 or so forums. This one being my first non-automotive one.

[chainsnuser]

Re: I'm Done

...to be honest the informative snus chat has fallen to an all time low and it's become an American stronghold with all the ill-informed ranting that goes with the territory.

Because I know you would like for all of us Americans to have an accurate understanding of what you meant by this comment, please explain.

I know very well what squeezyjohn means.

Many people here on the forum have an understanding of politics like preschool-kids yet they think they know how to save the world. It's annoying and I agree that this kind of attitude seems to be an American phenomenon. There must be some serious lack of political school-education in the States, and also a very narrow education about history, I guess.

Cheers!

[Roo]

Please, people! Lack of political depth-of-knowledge and narrow education of history are American phenomena? Good grief.

Obviously, we are an ecclectic mix of many nationalities and backgrounds brought together by our love of snus. We are bleeding-heart liberal "Obama Kool-Aid" drinkers, we are staunch Soviet-style communists, we are cops, lawyers, pot smokers, drunks, gun-toting nationalists, pro-gun-control pacifists, conspiracy theorists, alarmists, racists, homosexuals, athiests, jews, christians, buddhists, free masons, worldly intellectuals, close-minded xenophobes, kind and generous souls, and argumentative bastards. Among many other traits and characteristics both admirable and abominable (goddamn racists).

No need as I see it for any of us to make any ignorant, over-simplified and far-reaching comments about any of our nationalities, religious beliefs, or political views that we might think will offend any one of us. This is not a forum for attacking people. Or maybe it is now? I am in favor of keeping any and all degrading comments out of here, and I here-by apologize for once calling Judge Faust an argumentative prick. I was just sick of all the useless banter thrown back and forth not for the sake of expressing one's opinion, which I am all for, but for the sake of "winning" a ridiculous argument and proving one's mastery of debate.

Keep an open mind, people, and understand that by participating in a forum dedicated to people who like snus, not people who like YOU and your beliefs, you are going to run up against different folks with very different strokes. I'm not saying we should limit our discussions to snus at all, just throw a bit more humility, sensitivity, open-mindedness and HUMOR into these threads, and far less deriding bullshit. Please. Thank you.

EDIT: Chainsnuser, this post was not directed toward you. I only take issue with your singling-out of Americans regarding politically uneducated, historically-challenged individuals. I hope you would agree that each and every corner of this globe has its fair share of those to whom you are referring. Sure, some more than others, but there are very complicated factors involved in the distribution of ignorance in this world -- lack of access to and knowledge of a diversity of cultures and belief-systems being one of them. Cheers!

[sagedil]

Perhaps a suggestion for any of the mods reading this.

An ignore feature. I was active in usenet in the mid to late 90's and couldn't have survived there without it. Having *finally* read the thread in question, I would really like to simply ignore any future posts by a few individuals. I apologize, but I have lost all respect and would simply rather ignore those few

[Premium Parrots]

Perhaps a suggestion for any of the mods reading this.

An ignore feature. I was active in usenet in the mid to late 90's and couldn't have survived there without it. Having *finally* read the thread in question, I would really like to simply ignore any future posts by a few individuals. I apologize, but I have lost all respect and would simply rather ignore those few

Good Lord Sage, if the mods put up an ignore feature for members to use..............no one would ever read my posts. :P

[sagedil]

LOL, I suspect many wouldn't read mine either. But still....

And I would always read yours. :wink: