Please help the Wall Street protesters and join their virtual protest

[sgreger1]

"Demand three: Guarantee a living wage regardless of employment."


It's shit like this America.... The youth of today are just too stupid to understand how things work. In what magical fairytale world could we possibly establish a society that somehow pays everyone a living wage even if they choose not to work. What this country does not need is LESS productivity.



Anyways, despite the fact that these protestors are all completely ignorant on anything regarding economics or how the world works, I still stand behind them because they are at least out there doing something. Maybe it will grow big and we'll get to see some good riots


But now the unions have co-opted the movement and it's just like the tea party now, soon they will be a wholly owned subsidy of the dems/unions and they will become complete astroturf. This is going to fail just as hard as the tea party.

[truthwolf1]

Protesting/making demands from banks as if they are the government. hmm

Why are they not protesting the people who bailed these crooks out?

[angrylollipop]

It's important to not those "demands" posted above are nothing more than one person on the internet expressing his personal ideas in a public forum. Everyone knows these demands are way too much and unrealistic. No one is, or would ever take them seriously. To misrepresent that persons ideas as the agenda of the entire group isn't fair.

We all know the system is corrupt, special interests have way too much control over our lives and we as a people are in dire straights. Frustration is boiling over and while much of the mainstream media was able to ignore it in the beginning now that they can't , it's easier to use op-ed pieces to discredit it.

At the end of the day the younger generations have little hope in ever having any real middle-class existence. They know it and since most can't find any work anyway, they might as well use their time and energy expressing it and trying to do something about it as opposed to playing video games and eating frozen pizza. IMO more power to them for it. Eventually, something has got to give.

[Mdisch]

Well in Denmark everyone is provided a living wage - but only if the person resumes to try to get new jobs, or is permanently disabled.
Most of these demands are how it works in Denmark. Although a bit extreme... But it works to be honest - but this occupy Wall Street thing is just goddamn insane.

[sgreger1]

Well in Denmark everyone is provided a living wage - but only if the person resumes to try to get new jobs, or is permanently disabled.
Most of these demands are how it works in Denmark. Although a bit extreme... But it works to be honest - but this occupy Wall Street thing is just goddamn insane.

Exactly what qualifies as a "living wage" though? So if I choose to just be unemployed I get a enough money to live a middle class lifestyle? All I have to do is pretend i'm looking for a job, and I can get a check forever? Who is paying for this? Why do people still go to work?


This all depends on what one considers a livable wage. Livable as in staying alive? We already have that in America, via welfare and other gov services. But livable in American leftist terms usually means a middle class lifestyle, i.e. a house, car, cable, internet, etc etc. I don't see how we could provide that to over 300 million people without taxes going WAY up.

So your telling me that someone who works at McDonals (or whatever the typical low end job is where you live) gets paid enough money to raise a family on? How does anyone stay in business?

[GoVegan]

We can sit and try and pick this thing apart like they do in Congress or we can show our support. I am not necessarily agreeing with all the the demands one of the protesters posted but I am totally agreeing with the spirit of this protest.

[spinyeel]

"viva la revolution"

[Mdisch]

Well someone with a full-time job at McDonalds would most likely make enough money to maintain a decent lifestyle - but the welfare program in Denmark only pays if you go to the jobs they offer you, and the minute you deny they cut off your money supply.

[angrylollipop]

Well someone with a full-time job at McDonalds would most likely make enough money to maintain a decent lifestyle - but the welfare program in Denmark only pays if you go to the jobs they offer you, and the minute you deny they cut off your money supply.

Indeed, here in the united states Mcdonald's and other business similar (fast food, retail, etc.) pay a minimum wage. This minimum wage varies from State to State and though in theory it is supposed to keep up with cost of living, in practice minimum wage is often much less than one actually needs to live in modern society. You may be able to survive, but not on your own easily.

Of course the previous statement assumes you're working 40 hours a week. What business has learned in this country (the walmart model) is that by hiring people to work less than 40 hours a week you can skirt labor laws which also vary from state to state.

For instance, in places like Maine anyone working an 8 hours shift is required by law to be given two paid 15 minute breaks and a paid 30 minute lunch break. Anyone working less than a 8 hours shift is only guaranteed by law a single 15 minute paid break. 7 hour and 55minute shifts are very common as a result.

Most state also have over-time laws which allows workers who work over 40 hours a week to be paid time and a half. Other states require full-time workers to be offered some sort of benefit options. It all varies by state but suffice to say a full-time worker is generally compensated better in the form of benefits, wages, etc.

So what companies have learned is that by hiring people to work 15-20 hours a week for minimum wage they can skirt all the laws which pertain to full-time workers. Also, as a result If they need someone to stay and work longer then their scheduled shift they can easily do that without worrying about going over the 40 hour a week which would equal over-time pay.

The problem is that 20 hours a week of minimum wage isn't enough to survive on. You could get a second job no doubt, but if either job needs you to work and your schedule conflicts, you're easy to replace.

Some states have unemployment laws which say basically if you fire a worker they can collect unemployment. (this can be challenged) but if a worker quits no unemployment. In the real world it plays out like this true scenario.

A few years back Target was opening a new store in Maine. Target hires a slew of people part-time 10-15 hours a week to gear up for the grand opening. After a few months the store doesn't perform well and the store is now way over staffed. So instead of laying off or firing workers (which would allow for unemployment benefits payed in part by target) They hire more people and reduce everyone to 4 hours per week. (4 hours is the legal minimum you must work to be considered employed in the state of Maine.)

Workers making $7 an hour working 4 hours a week can not survive and so they eventually quit because they can not survive and other jobs will not work with them in giving them a different 4 hours off every week.

The company wins, and the workers don't stand a chance.

This is just one example, the way the shit works over here is complex, but suffice to say these practices are becoming the norm.

Also as a side note:

Someone earlier said that consumers vote with their wallets, and that by buying american they'll keep jobs in america. This is true in theory of course economic circumstance often makes it impossible for people to have the luxury of buying more expensive american made items....

[truthwolf1]

I dont think Fast Food or Target was ever meant to be a sustainable wage for employess unless you are in management which you can move into if you put up with it long enough. Most pt is for students, retirees and people needing a little extra money. Another way also for college grads to get inside the door of a company and to start builiding a resume.

[sgreger1]

We can sit and try and pick this thing apart like they do in Congress or we can show our support. I am not necessarily agreeing with all the the demands one of the protesters posted but I am totally agreeing with the spirit of this protest.

This is exactly how I feel. We can argue over the details but I think it's more of a "we're mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore" type of protest where everyone just airs their grievances. I think it's as close to an uprising as we're going to get, I gope it gets larger. I'm probbaly going to go to the SF one.

[sgreger1]

Well someone with a full-time job at McDonalds would most likely make enough money to maintain a decent lifestyle - but the welfare program in Denmark only pays if you go to the jobs they offer you, and the minute you deny they cut off your money supply.

A single guy could live okay on a Mcdonals salary here (not too comfortably though depending on where you live), but this is a great example of the difference between America and Denmark; they actually make you look for work in Denmark. Our welfare system here is a joke, they cut you a check with no accountability. You can be spending all the money on crack, have 5 starving children in your house and not had a job in years and they'll still send you the check. You're "supposed" to be looking for work but it doesn't actually play out that way. I would support giving someone a full livable wage (a decent middle class wage of a few thousand a month) if it was stipulated that "the second you stop looking for work and slacking off you're out". Bravo Denmark. And I love how they actually find jobs for you an offer them, that is a much better way of doing it. "Take this job or stop collecting checks".

[truthwolf1]

A employee system like Denmarks for citizens of the USA would bankrupt within a month. We have way too many people who abuse the system already and with the lowest graduation rates of all the western countries it will only get worse until it is dealt with. Does not Denmark have a 96 percent graduation rate?? we have cities in the USA that barely can achieve 50 percent. We are totally different societies but with the growing muslim population in Europe you might also in time see that your humane system will start to become thinner.

It's all the new globalism and the westerners are going to take the biggest hit in adapting to it. If you have a real job now with a good salary then you better keep it for as long as you can because a decade from now we will be talking about this time like it was the glory days. It's been a steady decline since the mid nineties/maybe longer. Nobody is going to be changing anything until the next big innovation comes upon us. Anybodys guess what it will be but it will get the machine rolling again

[EricHill78]

And that's the truth Ruth!