POLL: Muslims, you crazy!

[devilock76]

My answer: We have to do something to address crime. Until a better solution presents itself, we will stick with this. Much like with capitalism, it is deeply flawed but works better than the alternative, hence we stick with it.

Ok so let me try to answer here. If we incarcerate someone or we kill them, whether or not they would or would want to commit the crime again they now cannot, because they are incarcerated or deceased. So as far as protecting the populace from this "danger to society" both solutions are equal. If we can agree on that then let us consider the innocent person wrongly convicted. If we incarcerate them and later find them innocent we can release them, we cannot undo the death penalty. Ergo the death penalty is a worse solution in the absence of a perfect and infallible justice system, correct?

If we can agree on both of those points then I think it is clear that although neither is a perfect solution, the overall risk associated with execution in our justice system as flawed as it is outweigh the risks of incarceration as a solution.

Ken

[texastorm]

That may be your opinion, but the facts and statistics don't agree with it. In fact they are quite the opposite.

Ken

Hmmm so thats why we have a registry that sex offenders have to sign up with, and why we dont let them live within x distance from schools and such, and why we have restraining orders and other such nonsense.

Yeah I suppose your right we should do away with all that crap and just know that Timmys molester is over his fascination with little boys now. Prison is good like that.

[devilock76]

Oh and before it gets asked, as far as I am concerned the only people who should be incarcerated should be VIOLENT offenders. There is no need to incarcerate the myriad of non-violent offenders that we do.

Ken

[devilock76]

Hmmm so thats why we have a registry that sex offenders have to sign up with, and why we dont let them live within x distance from schools and such, and why we have restraining orders and other such nonsense.

Yeah I suppose your right we should do away with all that crap and just know that Timmys molester is over his fascination with little boys now. Prison is good like that.

No we have that because it is feel good legislation, because people get panicked over these stories. That list in itself is hotly debated as to if it is constitutional. The fact is it is rare anyone on that list repeats their crime. We hear about it when it does because it is NEWS, as in new information, something that doesn't happen all the time. It is just like the TSA and security theater. As I tell people who get in a panic over hearing of someone on the list moving into their neighborhood I tell them I am more worried about the sex offender I don't know about (or the authorities don't already know about) than the one I (and they) do. Because if something happens where do you think the first place the police are going to go check out.

On a side note I have heard some amazing stories of people getting on that list for things like drunkenly urinating in public. Another statistic for you is most of these crimes happen from someone the victim knows, often a family member. So keep that in mind. Maybe we should just lock up our families to be safe too. Lock up and kill everyone, just for good measure, right?

And to be clear despite your being abstruse, I am not saying not punish. And sex offenders don't face the death penalty anyway, unless they murder and then they face it for the murder charge, not the sexual assault. My point was that that list does nothing to keep you, your family, or anyone safer. The point is that statistically they are not repeat offenders as much as other types of criminals are. So your using that as a justification for capital punishment is not a logical supposition that is supported by facts.

Ken

[sgreger1]

That may be your opinion, but the facts and statistics don't agree with it. In fact they are quite the opposite.

Ken

Wrong.


Bureau of Justice Statistics:

Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 1994

Within 3 years, 2.5% of released rapists were arrested for another rape, and 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for homicide.

Released prisoners with the highest rearrest rates were robbers (70.2%), burglars (74.0%), larcenists (74.6%), motor vehicle thieves (78.8%), those in prison for possessing or selling stolen property (77.4%), and those in prison for possessing, using, or selling illegal weapons (70.2%).




^^^^ So while rapists and murderers have a relatively low recidivism rate, it is still relavent to take these numbers into context.


In 2006, 111,787 people were convicted of rape or other serious sexual offenses. Since we know that 2.5% of rapist etc will commit the same crime again once released, we know that of all of the rapists in 2006, 2,795 of those rapists/child molesters will rape or molest again. This is a staggering number.



So I think he is correct when he says these people will do it again.

[devilock76]

Wrong.


Bureau of Justice Statistics:

Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 1994

Within 3 years, 2.5% of released rapists were arrested for another rape, and 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for homicide.

Released prisoners with the highest rearrest rates were robbers (70.2%), burglars (74.0%), larcenists (74.6%), motor vehicle thieves (78.8%), those in prison for possessing or selling stolen property (77.4%), and those in prison for possessing, using, or selling illegal weapons (70.2%).




^^^^ So while rapists and murderers have a relatively low recidivism rate, it is still relavent to take these numbers into context.


In 2006, 111,787 people were convicted of rape or other serious sexual offenses. Since we know that 2.5% of rapist etc will commit the same crime again once released, we know that of all of the rapists in 2006, 2,795 of those rapists/child molesters will rape or molest again. This is a staggering number.



So I think he is correct when he says these people will do it again.

No he is not, and I am right, everything I am saying you have posted exactly that, they have low repeat rates compared to other crimes.

They will do it means they are likely to. 2.3% for example is not likely, heck those are roulette odds. Would you place your life on your lucky number on the roulette wheel? If not why would you place someone elses there.

My point was that using recidivism as justification for capital punishment for murderers and sex offenders is counter logical since the rate is higher among other types of criminals. If you can use that figure to justify that then you might as well start killing all thieves.

Ken

[raptor]

Where did I say free? Commute to life sentence.

Anyway, if you want to combat rising prison costs, start with reforming our War on Drugs.

[devilock76]

In 2006, 111,787 people were convicted of rape or other serious sexual offenses. Since we know that 2.5% of rapist etc will commit the same crime again once released, we know that of all of the rapists in 2006, 2,795 of those rapists/child molesters will rape or molest again. This is a staggering number.

Can you really in good conscious justify killing over 100,000 people to protect the population from 2,000 people?

I would be more worried about the 100,000 new rapes that will occur from people we know nothing about yet. And killing that first 100,000 will do nothing to prevent the next 100,000.

Ken

[tom502]

If they are that "crazy" to have done a death penalty warranted crime, then they most definately should get death, the "crazy" thus innocent is a crock.

[devilock76]

If they are that "crazy" to have done a death penalty warranted crime, then they most definately should get death, the "crazy" thus innocent is a crock.

Crazy does not equal innocent, no one is saying that, but crazy does equal a disease. If not curable, we can at least study it. That study could lead to ways that actually prevent future crimes. Why do you think we detained all those people in Gitmo, as opposed to killing them. It wasn't about punishment, it was about we never knew what we would learn from them next.

Ken

[truthwolf1]

Just to jump in with a completely different view.

I am not as worried about the coming influx of muslims as I am about the current influx of illegal's coming in from the southern border. If you compare the crime statistics of how that effects American citizens verses the numbers that are directly contributed to terrorism you can easily come to the conclusion of who are the real terrorists.

[tom502]

truth- you are correct. We need to secure the border, and treat these cartels and MS-13's and their ilk like the terrorists they are.

[truthwolf1]

Can you really in good conscious justify killing over 100,000 people to protect the population from 2,000 people?

I would be more worried about the 100,000 new rapes that will occur from people we know nothing about yet. And killing that first 100,000 will do nothing to prevent the next 100,000.

Ken

Our prison system is a joke.
I have read and heard enough that you could be placed in a American prison on a small drug charge and end up getting life for just defending yourself.
There is no rehabilitation anymore and the most evil criminals just get more training on how to be more evil.

[devilock76]

Our prison system is a joke.
I have read and heard enough that you could be placed in a American prison on a small drug charge and end up getting life for just defending yourself.
There is no rehabilitation anymore and the most evil criminals just get more training on how to be more evil.

Like I said, incarceration should be for violent offenders only.

Ken

[truthwolf1]

truth- you are correct. We need to secure the border, and treat these cartels and MS-13's and their ilk like the terrorists they are.

It is the right time for some serious legislation on gang membership. (Like lose a hand for your fist offense)! second, capital punishment!